I would follow the mix instructions.

Well, I would think if you added to much or too little of an ingredient you would find out when you water and when a plant is growing in the mix. The plant would show signs of stress or nutrient imbalance or uptake. Then take a pic, explain the mix and growing enviorment and post on GW HPF and we will assist.

I would not know if the look of the mix from the top, would display an indicator if something is off in the mix.

Maybe others who use the mix could elaborate more on this topic

Mark

Following the instruction is very important, I agree with you Mark.

Just my opinion, the key to have correct 5:1:1 is the pine bark fine :).

I made some experimental mix. I made one batch 5:1:1 without proper screening, only I took out some sapwood. The size of the barks are OK but the problem was the dust/dirt. So my 5:1:1 was probably 3:2:1 (3 parts pine bark, 2 parts dust and peat moss and 1 part perlite). The 5 part pine bark was not 5 parts because of the dust/dirt. It was water retentive, heavy and the plants had problems. When it dried the soil shrunk.

Another batch I made was screened the pine bark properly, this batch is not water retentive, light and the plants have grown faster. When I re-potted in this mix the plants are not stress.

Obvious sign of preparation mistake are water retentive and heavy. Just my opinion.

Do not blame to 5:1:1 before you know your preparation is correct :))

Caelian

Genuine 5:1:1 in action :)) genuine for me :)) about 5 hours ago I re-potted this Ghost Yellow in Al's 5:1:1 I am very surprised to see the plant responses to the soil even though it is night time without direct grow lights. It is very short time lapse video:

Caelian

Here is a link that might be useful: Al's 5:1:1 in action

The Al's 5:1:1 is discussed here many times again and again every discussion gives something good to the readers I think. Recently I was posting seedling problems to other forum, they asked me about the soil I told them it is 5:1:1 it seems to me they do not know much about it. Now I am a member of three forums :)) huh not so good
:( but I do not abuse any of the forum, as an enthusiast I love to share and learn from every enthusiast's experiences.

These two plants are in fake 5:1:1 and genuine 5:1:1 (certified by Me :))>

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The plants get benefit almost same from these soil but the problem is the fake 5:1:1 needs careful watering.

Still now my mind is trapped in the soil preparation. I am thinking about how to make correction of my unused fake 5:1:1. My plan is to add more barks and perlite , even I would like to screen it and separate the pine bark and reuse it. The another option is to use for Tomato and Stem-Cabbage.

To fix the problem of fake 5:1:1 I bought 2 bags of perlite 50 L each, before 5 L cost about US$ 7, today I paid about US $ 32 for 100L :)) I bought it from the factory Nordisk Perlite.
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Have a nice weekend everyone.

Caelian

I have not minded the unscreened bark dust in 5-1-1. In fact, I rather like it this way as it puts my mind at ease that a tad more water can be absorbed before it start gushing out, since so little actual soil-like particles go in. Then again, I guess this depends on your bark--if you have an exorbitant amount of dust, then I suppose you should screen. That said, if I am making this mix and am screening perlite anyway, I will usually go ahead and screen out the dust of bark, too. I just won't set up to screen if bark is the only thing that needs screening.

What *DOES* irk me is the perlite if I do not screen that. I basically screen and repack my perlite now; I don't want unscreened perlite in anything, period. I am horrified that I have used unscreened perlite for over 12 years -- and didn't even realize how dusty AND miniscule these pieces are if not screened. It's mind-blowing how much dust is in perlite!

When I make 5-1-1, I basically use topnotch potting soil (in lieu of peat moss, or sometimes 1/2 and 1/2), unscreened (except for sap and chunks that are too big), and then fully screened perlite.

Caelian -- you'll know it's wrong if the plant reacts badly! :-) Seriously, though, if the plant doesn't thrive, it doesn't matter HOW good the mix is, or how properly you made it. Between the soil, your watering schedule and anything you add to it (fertilizer, acidity, etc.) --- if it isn't working for the plant, it will show up. That said, after you've made a batch or two, you will see that when done properly, this releases just a fraction less water than gritty mix. If it's not coming out that fast or you see a lot of water building up in the soil before it leaks out -- I'd watch it carefully to make sure it's not too heavy.

Here is 5-1-1 made exactly as the recipe states:

Here's one where I made a couple modifications to get a bit more moisture for a bit longer than true 5-1-1 (by adding 1/2 part more soil -- the unscreened bark remains):

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I *think* I bought myself a day or maybe even two more days than using regular 5-1-1. Who knows....I'm just guessing. :-)

Hmm... I honestly don't know what happens if you happened to add too much lime....

It looks to me as though the amount of Perlite in your "fake" 5:1:1 is about right. But you do need more bark. Are you using the same "peat" between the two?

Hi Sugi_c,

Thank you for sharing. Your plants and soil look good.

Just my opinion, screen or not to screen the pine bark will be depend on the quality of the pine bark we use. In my case your guess is correct.

If we know the 5:1:1 preparation is wrong from the first time watering then it will be very good for the plants and the user. When we know after the plants have problems then we are going to deal with the problems. It will take time, money, energy, stress and probably lose the plants too. From the first time watering I know a bit about my preparation is right or wrong.

The 5:1:1 has a good reputation of good soil aeration and avoiding harmful perched water table (PWT) that's what I like. Even one of the users here said you can water everyday, I agree with him. The fake 5:1:1 I had experienced was opposite of this reputation. I can use this 5:1:1 by managing watering properly but it is not the way to work with 5:1:1. The good quality 5:1:1 has no problems of overwater from my experience the excess water come out to the drainage hole very fast, it has no time to drown the roots.

I found this dust and dirt in the pine bark. It is a lot. There is a lot of sap wood too.

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Only the measurement of pine bark, peat moss and perlite cannot be a true 5:1:1 if your pine bark is not very good. The 5 parts of pine bark could be only 4 or 3 it depends on the dust, dirt and sap wood you have.

Plant and soil are just like fish and water, as long as the water is good the fish are happy and healthy. Before the plants got nutrients from our feeding the roots may needs oxygen that 5:1:1 provides. A good example I experienced is when I repotted the plants in 5:1:1, the plant did not get stress. Before the roots get nutrients it gets enough oxygen for the roots that keeps the plant un-stress. The bad soil can suffocate the roots and killing the plants before the nutrients started to release.

Screening the pine bark may time consuming but it helps a lot in the long run, just my opinion.

Caelian

Sugi_c, I do not screen the perlite, what do you do the perlite dust? I tried to get bigger size perlite but not available here.

Caelian

i have nowhere else to complain, so i'll do it here...
today i went to a garden center where last year i found a bag of pine bark, the last one, at a discount. it was still expensive. today i saw that they restocked on that same bark and now it is at full price, a horrendous 25 euro for 60 litres... but the thing is... this is the most perfect most beautiful bark ever. it is perfectly screened, not a trace of dust, or sapwood, all the same size, and in small nugget form. perfect for my succulents and stuff that likes a bit of air.
so yeah, i may buy a bag when i have some extra cash (which is a very rare event lol), i just had to vent somewhere that i found the most perfect bark product in the world, only to have it priced like it was made of gold :)))

Hi Teyo,

60 liters 25 euro make me nervous :)). But you got the perfect quality that's great.

Expended clay we talked about last time is not available here, so I do not know the price. The Danish transport department DSB buy it from Sweden they called it "sne sand = snow sand". This week we got a lot of snow and they use it for the train stations. I saw the bags it called "Leca Safe".

I started this thread to avoid mistake when a new beginner prepare 5:1:1. Sometimes the users do not think about their 5:1:1 preparation is wrong and they may blame to 5:1:1, that's I would like to avoid.

Thank you for sharing.

Caelian

Found Leca Safe in Denmark I was misinformed :( .

For 10 liters cost about â¬4.00
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Caelian

I have bought a new garden sieve and screened the already screened pine bark fine and still found dust and dirt :(

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Caelian