Great deals and stock. That's a budget saver on hardy palms. What did you buy? I would not discourage them from carrying pindos because their prices are good.

I got one medium Med fan and a medium pindo and 5 small windmills. I was up in Dover today running an errand and checked out the Walmart Garden center. Got two more small (2.5 gal) needles and two "dwarf" palms. I assume the latter are sabal minors.

I certainly didn't discourage the garden rep from bringing in more pindos, especially at the price.

Must be nice, or HD only carries 3 gallon palms. Or lowes does carry larger sizes but they are in variation. Last year they had 7 and 15 gallon blue dwarfs and needles. And every lowes got exactly 1- 15 gallon Sylvester date palm for 100$.

Those sound really great... One question however, where in Deleware is zone 8??

Wetsuiter, you saved a bundle and practically bought them out..lol. Do you have good locations for them? Maybe you can post some pics of your plantings.

I didn't buy them out. Hardly. But I checked Home Depot tonight and pretty much the entire new stock was gone. I was told last week that they'd be getting in more hardy palms every week.

Mastiffhoo--first of all, its DelAware (not DelEware). ;-) The Delaware coast is considered zone 8 on several planting zone maps. The zone 8a definition is consistent with our average minimum temperatures in the winter (15F to 20F), but I recognize we are in a borderline area so post my zone as 7b/8a. It never gets colder than that on our immediate coast and we seldom see significant snow (other than the freak show of a winter that was 2010). This year while most of the Eastern Seaboard was seeing lots of deep snow, we had very little. If it snows here; it usually melts the next day or so.

If you zoom in on either of the zone maps (See links below), you can check for yourself. The AHS is a 2003 update to the 1990 USDA zone map and the Arbor Day Map is a 2006 update. Both include coastal Delaware as zone 8. AHS's map has zone 8 expending up into extreme Southern New Jersey and wrapping around much of the Chesapeake Bay on the lower DelMarVa Penninsula.

http://www.ahs.org/publications/the_american_gardener/pdf/0305/USDA_Map_pp_30-35.pdf

http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm
(Down load the TIF, to be able to zoom in).

Happy Palm Planting.

Thanks for the sites. The AHS has the zones a little exagerated in my opinion. It has 70% of NC as zone 8a, when much of those inland areas were a 7b this winter.

And the entire DelEware coast is listed as 8a. Hardly. LOL...

Those inland areas of VA and NC often see a colder minimum extreme temperatures each winter than we do on the Delaware coast. We are surrounded by water on three sides-- Atlantic, Chesapeake and Delaware Bays. Not optimistic at all for us. I Have never seen a temperature lower than 15 (more like 18) in the past 12 years or so on the immediate coast. Inland Sussex County, DE can be 5 to 10 degrees colder on extreme winter nights.

yes delaware is a huge microclimate on the east coast not far from va beach and just across the water really...

Good points wetsuiter. Coastal Delaware has a good growing climate and longer season. The ocean is warmer by you and the days longer. Every bit helps. With a little help, pindos could do well there.

That explains a lot for us in coastal NYC. We haven't seen a low below 12 or so the past 12 years, that still doesn't make us a 8a because some days we can just sit in the upper teens with blinding snow that lasts too long for unprotected palms. Tracky and needles planted southfacing against buildings here do not seem to need protection.

Hey wetsuiter what zone do you think Ocean City and Bethany Beach DE. are? Just curious as my Mother has a beach house in Ocean View DE a few miles from the coast (about a 30 min run/jog for me) and my father has a condo in Ocean City MD. I didn't know either that zone 8 went in to DE and maybe even New Jersey!

T.J.

yes def a zone 8 in coastal Maryland Delaware...

Trust me guys I didn't make up the maps! I know there is a lot of zone denial and pushing on this Palm Forum. I've never claimed that we have a climate like Coastal Carolina (8b), but nor do we have have to wrap our windmill palms like farther north.

That being said, I did plant a pindo from the Home Depot find. I may break my rule and protect it because its so beautiful in the center of my bed surrounded by some windmills and needles I just bought. But everything I have read about Pindos says they don't get damaged until temps below 15. It honestly has not been lower than that as long as I've had a house here. I'm just more concerned about the winter rains and freezing temps rather than the rare night below 20.

Coastal Delaware being listed in zone 8 while inland it is zone 7, is the same concept as Cape Cod, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard being in Zone 7, while Metro Boston is zone 6. They are surrounded by salt water which moderates the winter temps. Those places, like us, see more rain in the winter while the metro areas inland get more snow/ice. We have a VERY long fall and many years don't see our first frost or freeze until well into November. Things come back to life sooner with bulbs emerging as early as January. Don't get me wrong, we get good hard freezes for a few days and see some snow.

Brooklyn Greg, I have lots of family in the NYC area and visit them every few weeks or so. I see just how different their winters are compared to ours. I'll leave here with my crocuses and camellias in bloom in mid February and haven't seen snow cover in weeks. But when I get up there, they still have still piles of snow around and it looks like the dead of winter.

You are right, however; it is more than just minimum temperatures. Look how Tuscon and Seattle are both in Zone 8, but have very different climates. The planting zones we are familiar with only reflect the average minimum temperatures, not amount of sunlight, humidity or day time highs in the winter. Your area and mine aren't quite as extreme as that or that far apart, but there is a noticeable difference in the winter and planting material that thrives here and my guests notice.

Karate626-- Check out the links to the two maps I posted above. Bethany Beach is 15 miles to my south and is also listed on both maps as zone 8 (assume 7b/8a, like me). Ocean View is about two miles inland. The moderating effect of the ocean probably only extends 5 miles or so inland, so your mom's place likely is in the same zone as Bethany. Ocean City is in 8 on the AHS map, but for some reason on the Arbor Day map shows that zone 8 skips over coastal Maryland for some reason. I would just assume they are same as us --7b/8a.

Only the AHS map shows the eastern edge of Cape May County, NJ as zone 8. The zone has got to start somewhere, right? They are just 16 miles across the mouth of the Delaware Bay from us and have nearly identical winter temps. I'd be curious as to when the USDA is might update their own 1990 map. I'm sure there are fluctuations in zones with each revision--advancing and sometimes retreating based on averages over a few years.

Sorry gang, I didn't mean this post to become a spirited debate about planting zones. I'm a bit of a weather geek since I was a Geography Major at UD with a Meteorology/ Climatology concentration. Being a plant/palm geek too I CAREFULLY monitor what the forecast lows vs actual low temperatures are on winter nights. I've never monitored anything below 18 in my garden in 12 years here. I was even going to contact the UD Climatology department to see if they had any substantiating data to support what AHS and Arbor Day maps are showing. I would be curious as to the historical data on the lowest temperatures here every year for the past decade or two.

I just wanted to reach out to my fellow Coastal Delawareans and let them know there are some good deals on Hardy Palms beyond the private garden centers. I've not noticed another palm delivery since the first post. Will advise.

Happy Palm planting.

Very good points wetsuiter, but there are other zone considerations and its wise of you to cover your pindo palm. There is another scale we talked about here that weighs in cold duration and daily highs.

Even though pindos can tolerate cold well like sudden drops; they expect more dramatic daily warm ups and your cold, although not terrible, last too long for unprotected pindos. If you have sunny southern exposure around your house that would be the best place to try one and plant it so its well established by winter - that increases hardiness. During you mild winters it will survive well, but not during harsh winters - it will need a cover but probably not a heat source especially if plant by the house. I would plant it about 3 feet from the foundation becuase if it likes that spot they widen their trunk and put on a show you will want to show off! Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.

Wetsuiter and I already discussed this and I used a Pindo Palm as my gauge.

Don't really matter. We are all zone pushers and thus in legion.

But I would cover the Pindo.

Yes, day time winter high temperatures most definitely are a major consideration.

I did plant a Pindo last week in the center of my garden for maximum show. It will have 6 or 7 months to get established before it gets any temperatures that may damage it. It'll get lots of sun, especially in the winter and I placed it in the highest spot so it will drain well too. Most garden sites say that pindos are hardy to zone 8b (definitely not here) but other says it can tolerate down to 10F (have never seen anything close to that here). I do plan on protecting it with everyone's advise and what I've been reading. If I lose it, it was a relatively inexpensive investment. A sabal palmetto might be in order as a replacement. I could easily pop down to Virginia Beach in a few hours and pick up a good sized one for my next experiment. The rest of the palms I have are much more hardy, so they will thrive like the ones I already have.

Speaking of zones I've read "Bill's Garden" website before, but last night after all the zone discussion, I did some in-depth reading on his site. He has a really informative information, history and maps of planting zones from the early 1900s through the 1990 USDA map. I found the discussion about the AHS 2003 revision (the one I like) and why it is still a "draft" MOST informative. Basically USDA hired AHS to do the revision, but when it was submitted, USDA rejected it--no reason given. Some suggest that the new zone data might be interpreted as supporting global warming, something a government agency wanted no parts of. Interesting discussion.

Also, he has links to other schools of thought like the Arbor Day revisions (2004 & 2006) and Sunset Magazine's planting zones. The latter divides the country in to many many more zones based on the considerations that Brooklyn Greg has brought up--length of day, humidity, rainfall, winter high temperatures, etc.

Take a look, it's really interesting per our discussions:

http://www.garden.bsewall.com/topics/hardiness/AHS.html

Ultimately we all know our own areas best by living in them. We witness first hand what the weather is really like, what the temperatures really do, and most importantly what plant material grows and thrives in our own areas. No map can tell us exactly what will and what will not survive. Enjoy!

With what you are doing, that Pindo should flourish. Mine just went through its second winter and is looking pretty good.

I like Date Palms and the Pindo is the closest thing to one that has a chance up here.

Thanks good info.

Since pindos are affordable at HD by you, maybe consider buying another and planting it in a location it perfers although not showy. Protect both. Just a note, a high spot requires extra winter protection for zone pushing. Extra mulch under the covering would do it. A mild winter would do us all well.

During the Spring DE has a quicker warm up and yup, sometimes in Feb/March we still have snow piles in NYC while you're warming. We are greatful to be 7a nevertheless but rather a warmer zone.

We didn't have a bad winter at all here. Only one major snowfall at Christmas. But compared to NNJ where I was snowbound in 2' depth at cousins, our 8" paled in comparison. Then maybe two 1-3" snows in January that melted the next day. It was actually 64 degrees here one February day when they were getting ice in Wilmington and Philadelphia and heavy snow farther north.

The pindo is only marginally higher in it's bed mainly for drainage in the winter. Unfortunately, I'm kinda at my palm limit in my garden for a while. I'll take some pics of the new palms I got soon.

I saw the garden rep at Home Depot. No new hardy delivery due to flowers for Mothers Day. She's expecting more next week.

Hey guys. I took a bunch of pictures today around the local area. They are uploaded in Photo Bucket as was suggested to me on this forum. I've not been able to edit the album to put it in any special order, but they are labeled by location and subject with a description.

Took some in my garden of a few of my more established windmills and the new stuff I just got at Home Depot and Walmart the other week. I took a few photos around here in Lewes, Delaware and a bunch over in Rehoboth Beach. What I was surprised to see and some of you will too, is that the largest Windmills in both towns are blooming one one in Rehoboth has some large clusters of seeds from last season.

Here is the link:

http://s1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb444/Wetsuiter/Delaware%20Hardy%20Palms/

Thanks for the photos. Where was this one?

To paste pictures here, click on the HTML code, it will say copied and then just click & paste the address inside this box and the picture will appear when you submit it. Below I see a picture of your garden. I think the tracky is planted a little too close to the pindo. Pindos get huge.

Greg,

Thanks for the photo lesson.

The big windmill is behind the Royal Rose B&B in Rehoboth Beach. It's a block and half from ocean. It was planted after the shorter one to it's right. He's lucky to have planted a female and male together since 'she' produces seeds every year.

I guess I'm doubtful that my pindo will survive to get worried about it competing for space. When mine are as big as the ones in Rehoboth, I'll worry. That's a few years from now.

I think with some winter protection your pindo can survive. Mine did here in NYC with a cover. I used a light bulb on bitter cold nights(should have used Christmas lights-they work better), but do not think you need lights unless you really want to be sure she's safe. But covering it well and mulching can work in your area. Why not try. It all looks very healthy.

I definitely will protect the Pindo. It is really nice and healthy looking. The distance between the Pindo and the little windmills and needles flanking it, is much farther than the photo suggests. It was taken above and looking down at an oblique angle.

Any suggestions on how best to winterize a pindo? I know its very important to mulch heavily at the base to minimize water at the roots and to keep the crown as dry as possible.

Would a layer of plastic over or under the mulch be a good idea? I've seen a clear plastic box made with a 2 x 4 frame surrounding palms. It would get winter sunshine on good days that way. The Xmas lights would be pretty easy.

Wetsuiter:

I protected my pindo with a leaf cafe during its first winter here. Easily survived, but several of the fonds were nailed by rot as I did not cover the cage with a tarp. None the less, it recovered suprisingly fast.

This past winter, I sprung for a little, portable greenhouse. I put a shop light inside with a 100 watt incandescent and a thermocube to turn it off and on automatically. The Pindo did not miss a beat. Stayed green all winter and hit the ground running in the Spring.

In fact, its spreading so much, I have to procure or build something even bigger to protect it next winter.

So yes, your idea would be fine. Just make sure you have a way to vent the box as it gets hot with even a glint of sunshine.

No reason for that Pindo to perish.

found a Home Depot in Germantown Maryland (think 30 minutes north of Washington DC) also selling Pindos for $44. Can't remember what size gallon it was, but they were definitely selling it as "cold hardy" because of the blue container. Like wetsuiter said of Pindos around Delaware beaches, I was a bit skeptical of seeing HD advertising Pindos as cold hardy for the general population in that part of Maryland.

Bell Nursery is located in the Maryland suburbs between DC and Baltimore, so no surprise seeing them in Germantown.

Agree, the uneducated population seeing a "cold hardy" sign on a pindo wouldn't know that they have to protect them in this region.

Tomato Sunshine Garden Center on Rt 1 just outside of Rehoboth Beach just got a big delivery of very nice Windmill Palms in three sizes. While they are not quite as much as a bargain as the ones I first posted about from Home Depot, the prices are pretty fair.

7 gallon for $79, 15 gallon for $129 and 25 gallon for $269.

They all look great and its the biggest stock of Windmills I've ever seen there. A good indicator of the growing popularity of hardy palms in this area.

The above mentioned Windmill Palms from Tomato Sunshine are now 20% off. Lots in stock and all look really not. Additionally, they have 3 gallon windmills as well--asking $26, less 20%.

Checked out Bethany Beach Garden Center. She has very large Windmills, but of greater interest, a nice supply of 7 gallon (?) of nice needle palms for $55.

The Lowes in the Lewes / Rehoboth Beach area at Five Points just joined in on the hardy palm band wagon. Good selection of 2.28 gal windmills, needles and s. minors for $22 (+ 1 yr guarantee). Larger needle palmsf#xt and several sizes of pindo.

They were selling them at my garden center starting the past few years.

I planted a pindo this year that I got for around $50 @ the College Park Home Depot.