Thinking about going back outdoors with palms, others -- ???

15 years ago

Hello, I've got a pretty big collection of "hardy" subtropicals -- windmills, needles, sabals, pindos, European fans, Washingtonias, Chinese fans. Also, a lot of other things, camellias, gardenias, bottlebrush, Musa, and so forth -- you get the idea.

I USED to have this stuff outdoors over the winter, inside a shelter/structure. It worked pretty well except for the rodents (voles mostly, some deermice and red squirrels) getting into things and trashing them.

So, about 3 or 4 springs ago, I got disgusted and dug it all back up and potted it. It has since overwintered in a marginally heated garage and some also in the basement.

Problem is, I want my house back. It's all getting big, taking up a lot of room, and it's a lot of work hauling in and hauling out.

I'd like to make ONE good, permanent bed that I can put a good quality, insulated structure over for the winter (I'm sort of thinking a very heavy duty foam box type structure with a cheap plastic hoophouse over that, as a double layer of protection and to pick up solar gain from the sun on brighter days (not that we have that many of those in Michigan in the winter).

My questions are:

1) Do you think I can come up with a reliable rodent-proofing strategy? I'm pretty much thinking about wrapping EVERYTHING very tightly in a hardware cloth cage each fall, and even excavating the planting bed prior to installation and lining that with the same. Then, also using LOTS of poison bait and traps.

2) Those of you who are heating structures over the winter, how much is it costing you? I don't foresee it being economically realistic for me to run an actual space heater in there (I used to heat my greenhouse over the winter, but it was just too expensive), but I think running a number of lights might be do-able. Only need to keep the temp in the low to mid 20's, right?

I've been inspired to do this by all of you on here who have these GREAT photos of hardy subtropicals in the most unlikely places, like Iowa, Utah, Niagra region of Canada, etc.

Thanks for your input.

Dennis

SE Michigan

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Comments (6)

topher2006
15 years ago
Dennis if it was me i would hold off on bringing those out for at least another month or at the very least after easter. I just use poison peanuts on moles (seems to keep them at bay ) Now how to keep them out i have not a clue.My greenhouse is 15x30 i use a patton space heater with a controlled thermostat and i did not drop below 55
all winter. It only cost me an extra 50 bucks on my electric bill. as far as temp palms need a min of 50 degrees and there are some that will sulk at those temps.
User
15 years ago
It's difficult for me to say--you know your zone better than I do. But here are the criteria I use for deciding what to put out.

Windmills & Needles--Most of mine are in the ground but for a containerized plants, sustained temp minimums above 30 F. should be fine.

Containerized Pindo, Washingtonia, and Chamaerops (Mediterranean fan) should also be fine. I would hold off until a minimum of 35 F. for the Chinese fan (Livistona chinensis).

Potted camellias should be okay with sustained minimums above 30 F. Hold off on gardenias until your average minimums are above about 40 F.

Musa are the most tropical. I'll usually put them out by Mid April (in a protected area) when sustained highs are in the 60-70 F. range and minimums are around 45 F. Hope this was helpful.
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treeguy_ny USDA z6a WNY
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I have a few large potted palms that I'm moving inside in the evenings if temperatures are supposed to drop below 40F overnight. I figure this will help acclimate them to the sun/temperature/etc. of my area before planting them on the property.

Though not plant advice, I would like to ask everyone here to please NEVER use poison baits for rodents. Use kill traps instead. I'm a veterinary student who works a lot with the wildlife clinic here at school. Rodenticide poisoning is a serious problem seen in birds of prey. Be conscious of your impact on these guys, even in urban/suburban environments! Just something to keep in mind.
denninmi
Original Author
15 years ago
Treeguy -- I didn't consider that aspect of rodenticides. I certainly don't want to inadvertantly kill the cool little hawk that lives in my neighborhood (not sure what kind it is, bigger than a sparrow hawk, smaller than a red tailed or red shouldered), or the vultures. Thanks for that thought.
islandbreeze
15 years ago
Very good point...you don't want to kill or make sick the predator of the rodents you're trying to exterminate. Just the other day, I noticed 2 Bald Eagles flying above a neighborhood as I was driving. Surprising to see, since it's a very residential suburban area. I don't think bald eagles are endangered here in Michigan anymore. There are dozens of them that you can see nesting in a marshland alongside the highway if you go north. And rodents live in the old leaves of Washingtonia. Had to throw that in so this is palm related LOL.
jimhardy
15 years ago
If your willing to do some excavating and line the bottom with chicken wire or such,I don't think critters will be a prob at all,as far as heat goes, your zone does not get as cold at night as we do here,anyway,the better the insulation the less it will cost you to heat on the few mights you need to keep it above 10F

Thinking about going back outdoors with palms, others -- ???

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topher2006

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