Melissa wrote: "Climate in my garden is similar to Kim's but my care is different. I'm not nearly as nice to my roses in general.;) I water less, and feed differently I think. No chemical fertilizers at all." I think your "winter cold" is deeper than mine. (9b v. 10a, Sunset Zones probably between 18 and 19 for you, 20 to 21 for me) It seems your soil is quite a bit different in origin from what I've seen on line, being more of a deeper alluvium. Mine is the white shale layer of the Santa Monica Mountain formations. I water enough to keep plants alive, but not "thriving", particularly during the worst of the heat. I don't fertilize with anything other than prunings I shred and throw back on the soil surface as "mulch". I don't amend using anything, period. I avoid "organic" fertilizers due to the legions of moles, gophers, skunks, opossums, raccoons, coyotes, rabbits, rats, etc., all of which are either attracted by the organics themselves or to those which they attract. I don't need, nor wish to encounter any more "wildlife" that close to the house. Sometimes, it's a "witch" living this close to the "urban wilderness". I don't fertilize those in the ground with inorganic fertilizers, either. The soil is quite 'salty', as is the irrigation water. There has been no rain to flush the accumulated salts from the soil. Adding inorganics would only serve to intensify the "salts". I do use light, infrequent applications of inorganic fertilizer (always water soluble) to newly propagated, potted plants to replace the nitrogen they lose to watering. Being in an "extreme heat, extreme fire danger" area, I am allotted a relatively high level of "Tier 1" water use. I use, and have been using a quarter of that allotment, both to conserve the resource itself as well as to conserve the ever increasing cost of it. The areas I would normally irrigate show the reduced water consumption. I recently removed sixty feet of forty-plus year old escalonia hedge which had begun dying at one end and continued crisping and browning by the foot from the southern toward the northern end. Increasing the water to it had little positive effect, so eliminating the need, as I have done with all other plantings proving themselves "too needy", helps reduce the danger of combustion as well as need to increase the water bill. You might find this seedling of interest. Kim Here is a link that might be useful: Puzzlement

nkt: For every mix, I don't have exact proportion per se. I just mix what I've got at that particular time. One thing that I don't forget is sand so I can have a well drained soil. Next to that is peat so the mix will be more acidic which citrus loves 6.4 to be exact. Next is steer manure as fertilizer (because they are cheap. Then a potting soil so the mix is a little black in color and black soil is an organic soil. If I have perlite then I toss it to the mix or dolomite or dirt from my yard. The main thing is when you hose your mix, the water will go down quickly. In less than 10 seconds. Then you know you have a good mix. If you want a proportion mix, then 1/3 sand 1/3 potting soil 1/3 peat moss. then add 2 cups steer manure. Mix them good. If you want you can add the osmocote to the mix a long lasting fertilizer about 1/2 cup. You could use the one you bought as a 1/3 of the mixture then you can buy the play sand as the other 1/3. Then as for peat moss if there is no small size bag peat moss you can substitute an orchid mix. As for the long lasting fertilizer, right now I'm using Vigoro 19-6-12 All purpose. Before that I was using Osmocote 24-4-10. Your citrus will not know the brand and they are so forgiving irregardless how you treat them. The main thing to remember is the pH of your soil and don't water too frequently. Wait until the soil on top is well dried to the touch. Benny Be mindful that once every 4 months drench your soil from top to bottom. Use water at least 4 times as big as your pot to get rid of the salts that was built up .

Ah, hex you want this to be so wrong. Sorry but you can look up the "no nutritional value" on hydroponics it's well documented. An yes your right the plants don't care what the source of those elements are. But we're not talking about the plants but what "feeds on them". But lets talk about something else. You mentioned a perpetual motion machine. Well, yes that's what life is. it's in the very air we breathe. The plants breathe in bacteria that has the nitrogen cycle living inside it. The plant nitrogen (waste) cycle is part of that too. Even in an anaerobic system that still goes on. I have apple and pear trees that are ten years old that have been flowering, fruiting as well. With no intervention from me other than water if I notice. That means no fertilizer either. The bucket design captures rainfall so that wasn't often. Oh, that's right there's another difference. Capturing the rain water is taboo for your form of hydroponics. I mean with all the measurements and such. Haven't needed to take a reading ph or other wise in more than 20yrs. As for growing something..a tomato. Really. Is that the hill you standing on. I'm showing Cashews, Macadamia nuts,, coffee, 3 kinds of Bio-Fuel. Apples, pears, Plums, peaches all growing happily in the system. I bring pictures of everything. There even Strawberries flowering this year that grow anaerobically. Let's just off the top of my head there are Norfolk pines, Fiddle leaf figs, Sago palms, cactus, White and Yellow Birds of Paradise, Orchids, Pony Tail palms, Citrus. All growing quite happily. Those pictures are already on here. As for water consumption on average each tight 5gal container holds about three an a half gallons. That water last between 45 and 60 days with out rain. If I get a good rain once a month I don't have to water at all.

The seeds are finally starting to germinate. They were fresh, so that would seem to be on the long side for a P. edulis. The germination conditions were a bit odd, though. At about the time they were planted, the sun shifted so that it shines directly in that window most of the days. These guys are in a high humidity environment, so they got steamed--very hot and very humid. I suppose it didn't hurt in the end. I think the best assumption at this point would be that these are in fact P. edulis. I was in communication with one individual (I would like to give credit but this was a private email) who suggested a way to tell whether it is a hybrid or not. The petiole glands of P. edulis lie right at the base of the leaf; those of P. vitifolia at the other end of the petiole. If it's a hybrid, they will presumably no longer lie at the postion of the P. edulis ones. If they have moved (say to an intermediate position) that would be clear evidence that a hybrid was made. And apparently the petiole glands can even be visualized on the first seed leaves. No need to wait for the flowers, hopefully. I will update this when I can.