My pygmy palm looked exactly like this when I brought it indoors. I still dont know what caused it, but mine eventually died. Yours might still be able to be saved though. Hopefully someone knows what is going on with it. Does it get watered a lot, or is the soil dry? I think dry soil could lead to this problem.
Good luck!

-Alex

As noted above, big difference between watering needs of a Pygy growing
outside in Miami and indoors, in the shade, in a Seattle Winter. When you touch the soil, is it moist, slightly moist, or slightly moist? Looks like a problem at the roots from either too much or not enough water. I have never used a self-watering container so I don't know how efficient these are. At this time of year, your soil should be slightly moist throughout. It's possible there are very, very dry pockets in the container where water is not penetrating. This is especially a problem with soils that are too peaty.

In general, I've been keeping the soil very moist, or even "wet", to the point that I got concerned that it wasn't drying out enough and could lead to root rot. So the past couple of weeks I've been abstaining from watering too much, and lo and behold the plants have drooped more. Last night I decided that maybe what they needed was more water right at the bases of the trees where the rootballs are, and less water around the perimeters of the pots. We'll see if that perks them up a little. Both trees were in much smaller pots when they came to me, so I'm sure the majority of the roots are still in fairly compact balls, which is probably why most of the soil away from the trunks stays pretty wet.

I don't think the soil is too peaty -- it's gritty and humus-y both, but it doesn't seem spongy to me, if that's what you're thinking, njoasis. The self-watering containers wick up water from the bottom, but that means the roots have to reach the moist soil down there. My guess is that most of the roots are still hanging out in the middle of the container, and only a few have had a chance to grow down to the bottom.

But even if better watering on my part does turn out to solve the drooping problem, I still am not sure what to do about the spears not opening. At this point I'm thinking that's not a watering issue because it's been happening since I got them, even when I was watering them almost daily in the summer. I'm considering installing some big fluorescent grow lights in my ceiling (seriously), suspecting it's a light deficiency problem and not knowing what else to do. But feel free to chime in if anyone has a clue.

Humidity in the room at this time of year is usually in the 40% range. I know it's a little less than ideal, but not dire, I don't think.

I think my fertilizer is good -- I'm going to double-check to see if it says it has manganese, since that seems to be a clencher for these Pygmy Date Palms. I don't now whether a nutrient deficiency could be causing these symptoms.

Scratching my head, my biggest hunch right now is that it's not enough light. I've read that the leaves of these palms are darker when they're grown in the shade, and mine are definitely dark green. But it's still kind of a stab in the dark, no pun intended, and so I hesitate to go to a lot of trouble installing grow lights if it isn't going to help. I've also thought of moving them outside for a period in the warmer weather for a little luminescence refreshment therapy, but as the containers weigh a cold ton and are just a little awkward with a tree poking out, I don't think fitting them through a doorway to get outside is a very good idea. Plus, there goes our office decor. Oh, and they might be stolen.

Anyway, thanks you guys for your help.

-Ben

Hi Ben,

I too grow roebelenii indoors for about 4 months in winter. I haven't had problems to date specifically with the date palm but have had similar problems with other palms. Interestingly, I always have the best luck growing date palms indoors (both roebelenii and CIDP). I can't say with confidence what the problem is here but will share some of my thoughts from experience:

- my roebelenii once looked just like yours and it was definitely for lack of water. Once I soaked it, it perked right back up.
- I tried self-watering pots twice and hated them both times. I'm not sure they really work. My palms grow best with traditional flow through pots. When I can see water running out the bottom, I know water has made it through the roots. If water can't get out, there is a chance that water could be sitting down there and with you adding a little at a time, the roots could be drowning. I don't think this is the case cause usually too much water starts turning the fronds brown (like a fungus).
- I have also run into problems with other plants in the container as borders. The roots started fighting my main plant for water. They could be robbing your roebelenii of more water and nutrients than you would imagine.
- I've found roebelenii's like to be drenched and then allowed to dry out. In winter for example, I add about a gallon or so of water and then won't water for another 10-14 days.
- Given the location of your palm next to a big window, I really doubt light (or lack of) is the real issue. I had a CIDP next to a similar window with minimal light during the day and it still grew fine.
- Have you looked for any insects to see if they could be stressing the palm?
- Don't think humidity is a problem. My house is also mid-40s in humidity percentage during winter and it hasn't stressed my palm. I also believe date palms are desert plants...they grow just fine in AZ.
- last thought would be the palm is rootbound.

One other source not mentioned is a potential disease. My hunch is it's a water problem and whether it is too much or too little, I'd lean too little only cause that is exactly what mine looked like when it was drying out too much. Hopefully this helps you and keep us updated. Here are some pics of mine taken today.

{{gwi:1123044}}

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Hi P.J., thanks for the advice and the pictures! Your palms do look healthy!

I'm happy to report that my Pygmy Date Palms are starting to perk up a little after more watering. I had given them extra water concentrated on the immediate area around the trunk on Wednesday evening, and when I went to the office today they were not drooping quite as badly. I added about another .75 gallon to each plant and hopefully they will be feeling even better shortly.

Here's the same one looking just a little happier:

{{gwi:1123048}}

It's interesting you've found them to do better indoors. As for me, I've been a little paranoid since the day they arrived that they weren't going to thrive. I've read that they can even die if grown in full shade, so that might have contributed to my light deficiency concerns.

Before I had these palms in their current containers, they were just in the large nursery pots that they came in with saucers underneath. And as I was under the impression at the time that they needed to be watered more-or-less daily, I was watering them a lot and then shop-vacing out the massive amounts of water that began to collect in the saucers. It became quite an operation.

Once I potted them in the self-watering containers, adding a lot more soil, the soil was retaining so much water that I became less concerned about watering them as frequently (the soil they came in was really airy, and probably more roots than anything else). But what I like about these containers is that there's a gauge that shows how much water is in the reservoir at the bottom, and in addition to filling the reservoir directly, any water that flows through the soil from top-down watering flows into the reservoir too, and hence adjusts the gauge. So you can always know that you're not leaving the plants in a puddle, which is essential (for anything but cat palms, which seem to like puddles at my place).

Anyway, I was unaware that the other little plants in the container could be affecting a big tree much. I have a Creeping Charlie that is slowly taking over the base of the other palm. I'll have to give some thought to whether to do something about that.

About insects, both palms have had some insect stresses, but not too bad. The one in the photo had a scale infestation that started accelerating a few months ago. I treated it by wiping every leaflet of the affected fronds with a paper towel soaked with Natria, and so far I've only seen signs of a couple scales returning. The other palm has a few spider mites here and there, not too bad, but which I'll be chasing down in a similar fashion as soon as I have a chance. But I think there's something else going on on the spears that I just noticed the other day that looks potentially dangerous.

{{gwi:1123050}}

Sorry I couldn't get a clearer shot of it. Could that be mealybug?

Whatever it is, I'll be soon eliminating it. It can be quite a chore, though, to apply a treatment to feathery plants like these when you can't just spray it on. My thought was that maybe these bugs are keeping the new fronds from opening, but since the other palm doesn't have any bugs like that, I don't think it's a going theory.

I'm sure the plants are rootbound, so my main conclusion as of now is that I have to aim the watering can for the rootball, and do so more often. But I still don't know what to do about the new fronds not opening -- maybe better watering will help, but I don't know, we'll see.

Thanks again for your help.

-Ben

When I first saw your pic, I was wondering if the smaller plants where potted up in the same pot. I would remove them--or at least containerize
them separately and just position them on top of the soil. I should add, that I do plant annuals around the bases of my large Canary Palms in the summer, but they're outside and do get hosed down daily as they are in full sun all day on top of super hot, black asphalt. Yes, unfortunately you do have mealy bugs. Try spraying with insecticidal soap. I wouldn't give up on it though, this is one terrific species. Three years ago, I had spear pull on a large roebellini overwintering in the garage--too big for the house. It recuperated a tiny bit toward the end of the first growing season outside, then took off the second season and has been flowering for the past two seasons--it is over 8 feet tall now. Outside, they get full hot sun all day. Again, very different from a shaded site indoors so it's easier to overwater in the house esp. In the Winter. Lots of misconceptions, by the way regarding Date palms in general and watering. First people think all Phoenix date palms are desert plants (not true)--Roebellini, for example, is from SE Asia where it rains--a lot! Even those that do originate in the desert are using there deep roots to tap into aquifers in the those desert oases. Good luck with your palm.

When I first saw your pic, I was wondering if the smaller plants where potted up in the same pot. I would remove them--or at least containerize
them separately and just position them on top of the soil. I should add, that I do plant annuals around the bases of my large Canary Palms in the summer, but they're outside and do get hosed down daily as they are in full sun all day on top of super hot, black asphalt. Yes, unfortunately you do have mealy bugs. Try spraying with insecticidal soap. I wouldn't give up on it though, this is one terrific species. Three years ago, I had spear pull on a large roebellini overwintering in the garage--too big for the house. It recuperated a tiny bit toward the end of the first growing season outside, then took off the second season and has been flowering for the past two seasons--it is over 8 feet tall now. Outside, they get full hot sun all day. Again, very different from a shaded site indoors so it's easier to overwater in the house esp. In the Winter. Lots of misconceptions, by the way regarding Date palms in general and watering. First people think all Phoenix date palms are desert plants (not true)--Roebellini, for example, is from SE Asia where it rains--a lot! Even those that do originate in the desert are using there deep roots to tap into aquifers in the those desert oases. Good luck with your palm.

Thanks for the encouragement. I spent last evening cleaning up the palm that had mealybugs and spider mites. The spider mites were mostly dead already for some reason, but the mealybugs were worse than I thought -- all around the crown and in between the collapsed leaflets of the new fronds. I was wiping everything down with Natria, pulling some of the new fronds open a little to get at the bugs. Got pricked with those pygmy thorns more than a few times and am a little sick today from the Natria fumes (it may be natural, but...).

Here's the other tree looking a whole lot happier now that it's getting enough water:

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I'm glad you guys helped point me in the right direction. The one that had bugs still hasn't perked up fully, but I'm going to keep at it with the water and insecticide until it's all better : )