Yes, the do they have roofs/covers on the enclosures question came up earlier in dln949's earlier thread. That it the million dollar question. With a top on the enclosures but no heat, I give them a 50/50 chance of survival. No cover, no heat, less than 10% chance of survival.

I'm betting they do have tops, maybe clear plastic? Why go to all that trouble and then screw it up by leaving out something like a top? If Des Moines did indeed go to -17F that would surprise me. That is about the lowest we have seen here in the twin cities (at least in my yard) so far this winter. We are a few hundred miles north of there.

Just a hunch, I bet more than half the trees make it through the winter. Please keep the updates coming guys!

I spoke with the General Manager by phone on Monday 1/25/2010 and he told me they are NOT providing any supplemental heat. The city would not allow any lights or heat because of the fire hazard. The have mulched well, sprayed with some anti fungal, wrapped in plastic, and erected the white tin structure you see in the photos. He also told me if the palm trees don't make it this winter they probably will not replant.

Good to hear they are wrapped. I am sure the city local counsel would not classify Christmas lights as a fire hazard.

Jim, the palm fronds in plastic looked burned from cold.

TZ. I would give the pindo more time as well. Yesterdays 60*F was great - and made me long for Spring. I like to tell myself the worst part of winter is most likely over. I do not think FL will drop even close to what they had 3 weeks ago for years. We had some enduring cold in Jan and Feb days are longer and a tad milder usually, and its promising that we were saved from really cold single-digit lows thus far this winter. You realize we had a zone 8A winter so far:) So I can't blame you for waiting for the other shoe to drop, lol. How are you securing the can over the pindo in the yard?

They would have needed a foot of insulation to have had a chance,maybe more.

>

The way there wrapped in plastic I have a feeling half will survive but they will have damage to the first few leaves and will grow again but they cannot survive that every year. you should call them back and tell them about the foam enclosures dont need rope lights the lights get mounted on the ground facing up. inspectors should have a problem with that

Hi brooklyngreg, So far this winter isnt too bad. The lowest temp by me was 15 which is barely a zone 8b, but it looks like we should be seeing a zone 8 winter (last year went down to 5, but the year before went down only to 11F for the lowest temp). Spring is on its way though for sure. The buds on the trees are starting to form, my camellia buds are getting huge now too. Speaking of camellias, unfortunately one of my camellia yuletide has some dead leaves, but I think thats because its in poor soil because everything I plant in that area dies (and the other camellia yuletide is fine and so is the common spring blooming camellia which has seen many winters outside). I guess we will have to wait and see how those go, but my palms are loving this nicer weather and have no damage so far.
I dont secure the Garbage cans with anything because the plants inside of them take up so much room that usually that makes it secure enough. I did put some rocks on the one that blew off, but I guess that wasnt good enough. At least it was mild and the plants didnt see any damage by being exposed to the rain. I think we will probably see maybe 5-7 more nights in the teens this winter, but it looks like the NYC area may see a zone 8 winter. Not bad at all considering that many areas of northern FLORIDA will also be seeing a zone 8 winter! ( They are overall much warmer than us though nce you consider all the warm days they see).
If we dont get much colder than my palms will probably make it past there first winter outside with no damage! That would make them get a really great start to growing in the spring, and maybe tempt me to try more tender palms :) But Im trying not to get too excited for spring yet because Feb. is still a very cold month and it only takes one cold night to damage palms.
Good luck, I cant wait for spring!

Yes, I hear you TZ, its too early to claim victory, but the good news is that the coldest part winter is nearing the end. There are some cold nites coming up for the weekend I heard, but nothing below 15. We know temps can flex up or down at the last minute. When the big winds come I find placing 3-6 regular bricks on-top holds things secure is a partially sheltered yard.

I am appreciating our lows not being too low, lol:)) We may end up with the same zone as FL in the end but I'd say they have a huge advantages since they've been in the 70s for a week now and Miami topped low 80s. That's why I believe zones should also consider "cold duration" in thier formula.

Duration IS important and is completely neglected in the current zonal guides. Near range forecast aren't really that bad. Keep in mind though that a lot of damage is done when you combine subarctic air masses with an increasingly potent sun--leaves burn because the leaf gets warm but can't get water--it's frozen. And high temps can actually be a bad thing if they encourage growth only to be followed by arctic cold.--Cold hardiness is really complicated! It will be interesting to hear how the famous Windmill palms of Yalta (Southern Ukraine) dealt with an arctic outbreak there that pushed temps below 0 for a few days. Ouch!

Those palms are probably toasted, but it will be cool to see if any of them to make it. I don't get why they couldn't wrapped them with lights and made it so the plastic didn't touch the leaves. They could have wrapped them up tight.

Link to the palm trees this past summer
and possibly some info.

Bad time to plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: Iowa palms

Photos from 02/15/2010, about 3:00 PM, of only one of the trees (that obviously did *not* get the covering of the white corrugated stuff). Today there was a *bitter* wind from the north - which is pretty much to the back of the camera - that this tree was taking the full brunt of. (I know because I was standing next to it to take these photos, that wind was brutal.)

dln949

It's amazing that for all the time/effort/interest they had in doing this-that they refused to do a couple of things that would have helped these to sail through this winter.
Without going into to much detail-
1.Planting earlier
2.heating
3.closing the f-ing plastic!

Yep, that one look fried, from what I can see through the opening in the plastic. Somebody should have done more research. Maybe they'd be better off trying musa basjoos in place of them.

They'd be better off sticking with arborvitae! Those things are toast.

Its kind of hard to tell what the center looks like, but the ends of the leaves look completely fried, so Im going to assume the center is too.

The bad thing is that area of the country has been the epicenter of cold (compared to normal). So in a warm winter, they may have got by, not this year!

Anyone hear/see an update on these Iowa windmill palms yet? I wonder if they have uncovered them yet (3/7/10 today). I'm anxious to see how many (if any) made it...

I cant imagine them doing this every year if the palms take all summer to recover. Im sure in spring when you want a cheery botanical greeting..half dead palms to show customers isnt what they envisioned.

My guess is they are all dead.

I think if I were paying money to stay in a hotel, I would go to the one with nice looking spruce trees out front. I commend them for their effort, but that looks shabby in front of a place of business.

zone pushing is one thing, but zone denial is.... just that .... denial (not a river in Egypt). Freud felt that denial was one of the more primitive defense mecahanisms. 'Nuf said about that.
People don't really expect palm trees at hotels in Iowa. That said, if I do go to an Iowa hotel which has them, I expect them to maintain healthy specimens. Maybe they need to have a conservatory in the entrance if tropical fantasy is their point. Dead palms look really, really sad. At least with deciduous trees there is a context.

I think if they really want a tropical look they should do something with the lobby and have a nice tropical focal point in the center with in-ground palms and other tropicals, and maybe a water fountain. That way not only are they successfully getting a tropical theme they can enjoy all year long, but also are able to use a countless number of tropical plants.

To me the real issue is the stupidity of not protecting these palms like they should have(half measures)and leaving them to die.
O.K. the last 2 winters have been cold but....this is Iowa and we do have winters,you have to prepare for the worst.

I stopped in at the hotel today (03/22/2010). The trees with the white corrugated plastic containters around them still have the white corrugated plastic containers around them. But, the tree near the entrance that only had transparant plastic around it was more exposed today. Here are pictures, the last one I reached under the plastic for a shot of the inside. It doesn't look real healthy.

Yeah, unfortunately it isnt looking too great. Hopefully maybe one of them lives, but the one in the pic looks like a gonner. I guess we wll have a better idea when they are completely uncovered.

WOW! That thing is completely brown. It doesn't even look freezed dried, just brown. No green on the spear or the petioles. And that one looks like its in the most sheltered spot too. Not sure if it would have made a difference, but another precaution they could have taken was planting them right up against the building and foundation. That's gonna be a very costly mistake for that landscape company.

i think the palms will make it. I remember a couple of years back they wrapped the trunk and not the fronds I believe they lost most of the palms. The owner of the hotel actually called me in Montreal because he found on-line that I had been doing this in zone 5b Can or 4b Usa for a long time and I told him to make structures around each palm. These are not the type of structures I told him to build but nonetheless will keep palms 15-20 degrees warmer. I believe the company that sold them the palms , replaced all the palms. I think the palms will burn a little with the plastic and defoliate some but I think the heart of the palm will stay. Call me again if you see this message I'll make you boxes or introduce you to more appealing palm systems. Coconutmike

Pretty doubtful that they are alive,I don't think it would have stayed any warmer in the enclosures since they are not heated.
Des Moines probably saw -20 are less and the duration of the cold this year was staggering.
If any of the palms made it-it's because of superior genetics!
You have to wonder if any of them even did push some green up how long a hotel would put up with nuked palms in there entryway.
Even if one or two survived we are talking ALL summer for recovery and if this is their method of protetcion,they are domed-

I can't believe Des Moines still has snow on the ground-doesn't exactly make you think those palms are in a warm micro-climate.

Cannot believe that there is still snow piles around. We haven't seen them in Michigan in a few weeks.

Maybe it's more proof of our actually being a Zone 6 in SE Michigan. I was in Chicago last week and Detroit was at least 2 weeks ahead in the green grass, crocii, and forsythia depts.

If its alive-it had to have helped to be the hairiest Trachy i have ever seen. It has Ron Burgundy hair.

Hey now, don't make fun of its pubic hair! :) Seriously though, that one looks like it is toast. Or at the very least barely alive and won't be able to recover enough by the time it gets cold again (doomed). I'm very interested to see the ones which were under the white covers though... I have a feeling some of those pulled through.

Trachy FAIL

Well, it is now June 4th. Any update? Photos? Would love to know how this second attempt went.

I second that novaplantguy. I'm thinking that the lack of news is a bad sign for those trachies though...

Anyone knows the status of these palms? I agree, the lack of news isnt giving me much hope that these are alive. Without heat they didnt have much of a chance in that type of climate. But unfortunately adding heat was not an option for this hotel.

-Alex

I just wonder how much money this hotel is willing to pour into new trees every year while refusing to even stick a few flood lights around the base inside those enclosures.

Why is adding heat not an option? I would think clear plastic with some Christmas lights would at least make some effort to make them presentable during the winter.

I was in Des Moines this weekend (July 24-25, 2010) and went by the Hotel on the way out of town and ALL the Trachy's are gone. Decidious trees have been planted in their place. Experiment failed.

I figured as much. I had a bad feeling about this from the beginning. They just did not seem to protect them enough/ the right way. I suppose if a place in that kind of climate really wants to have palm trees, they will need to do what they do for some of the beaches in Chicago (places like Oak Street Beach) and rent them from a company who will take them in every fall) or just let them die and replace them every year.

It's just TOO COLD there without MAJOR, MAJOR protection efforts, and were talking complete with climate control within the protection. What a waste of good palm trees that was.

Thanks for the update!

Very sad but at least they gave it a try. Im sure it was an expensive loss but its just too cold over there without heated protection.
Thanks for the update.
-Alex

I wonder about the people who sold these trees to this hotel. It seems to me they had an ethical obligation to make clear to the hotel what protection would be required, and the consequences of not providing that protection. I'm not saying that the seller did not do the right thing - I don't know those facts. But, to have a failure like this makes one wonder about the reputation of the seller. Did the hotel ignore the seller's advice? Was the seller inept and simply fail to advise the hotel? Did the seller mislead the hotel?

And - Why would the people at the hotel do all this, and not bother to check with people... like the people on this forum? I bet had they done that, it would have worked, they would have received excellent advice, and everyone would have had loads of fun. Kind of sad.

I had a conversation with the GM at this hotel and they knew what they were up against and what it would take to keep the palms trees alive over the winter . They tried to heat the palm enclosures and the fire department and city council would NOT allow it because of the potential fire hazard. so they were left to the best they could do, but the Iowa winters proved too cold for the palms.

If you've ever visited the Jersey shore you see that many of the beach communities plant Queen palms by and on the beach. What happens to these palms every winter? I have three large Queen palms, I know they're relatively cold hardy--but not for a Winter at the Jersey shore (not yet any way). Do they ship them south or just let them die? Seems a real shame if the latter. At the shore, they would probably make it through December--January and February are the problem. What's irksome is that there are palms that would make it at the shore through the winter (Trachycarpus, Chamaerops, some Sabals, Rhaphidophyllum, and Butias). Just had to vent on what the OP story reminds me of locally.

njoasis, I feel you. There is a restaurant here called Mango Mikes that does this every summer. They put in queens, foxtails, bananas, BOPs, even coconuts that are starting to trunk, and they just let them die every year. They could easily achieve the same affect with windmills, S. minor, even Chamaerops, as well as musa basjoo... each year, without killing perfectly great trees, and while saving themselves a boatload of money. But they dont. While I find it irksom, I just dont have the heart to actually attempt to talk to the owner, because from what I understand, he is rich and just does not GAF. (care).

Im pretty sure Ive seen large coconut palms along the jersey shore as annuals. Probably at least a dozen very large ones (Never actually seen them in person, only pics). Something tells me that they let those die every year too. Such a shame. I would rather see needle palms, even yuccas along the beach which should thrive in good care (maybe some wind protection).
Good luck!
-Alex

I agree, it is a shame to see them just let those palms die over winter, but imo, palms such as windmills and needles wouldn't create the same effect as the tender pinnate palms they use. They should plant them in the ground in very large pots around May 1 and then have them dug at the end of October to overwinter in a greenhouse. This may sound complicated, but I've read that this practice is increasingly common in the Chicago area. Apparently, for a (sizable) fee, nurseries will rent out the palms for the summer (including planting and digging), then overwinter them in their greenhouses.

To cover and not add heat...what were they thinking?

What a waste.

OPPALM, that is very interesting what the hotel manager told you: Specifically, that the fire department considered heating the palms in the enclosure as a fire hazard.

I realize you probably don't know enough of the details of what their precise objections were, but I think that is a serious statement by the fire department. Because, I suppose the implication is that what a lot of us on this forum are doing to preserve our plants over the winter might be considered a fire hazard by the Des Moines Fire Department's standards. And if those standards are reasonable and applicable, I'd like to know more about this, because while I like growing a palm tree in Minnesota, I don't want to risk my and/or my neighbors property in the process.

Perhaps the hotel was considering some kind of heavy duty heaters, and that is what the fire department objected to? (But if that were the case, why not try wrapping them with lights underneath?)

dln949

When over wintering a windmill palm, is it ok to cut/remove all of the fronds first?

I'm waiting for a 5ft windmill palm that I'm going to plant next to a pond I have.

Scott/Omaha

No, the tree uses energy stored in green fronds to make it through the winter. Leave as much green intact as possible. Otherwise, it will weaken the tree, and it will have trouble surviving. You can, however, tie the fronds up to make it easier to protect it.

We just came out of the Cloudiest and Rainiest Spring on record here in SE Michigan, after once of most brutal winters in recent history. All 3 of my Chinese Fan Palms made it. They are now growing new fronds and my 4 year old is finally growing a substantial trunk.

They are planted on the South side of my walkout brick ranch and are doing well. 2 of the 3 lost all protection in the coldest/wettest part of winter and still pulled through.

My bananas (musa basjoo & Mekong Giant) are now leafing out 4 foot leaves and have literally grown 3 feet in the last 3 weeks.

My Monkey Puzzle Tree is now 4 years old and is growing at a really good rate this summer.

Fun, fun, fun!