I like to plant tomatoes that ripen early yet have good flavor and set fruit well in the heat. A tall order actually. Choose tomatoes that typically do well in your area. I try to stay away from large fruited beefsteak types because if the weather turns cool you may not be able to get them to ripen before frost sets in. Length of daylight plays an important role also.... once the days shorten they tend not to ripen. A couple years ago I had a bumber crop of Brandy Boys that made lots of green tomato relish and green tomato pickles.

James, I really haven't given it much thought yet, but feel like I'll probably go with short-season types or heat-setting types to ensure they have a chance to ripen before frost arrives. I don't generally plant the ones with a DTM over about 70 days for fall because in the shorter daylength and cooler temperatures, they are so very slow to ripen. I have had pretty good luck with pulling up vines full of green tomatoes, hanging them upside down in the root cellar (tornado shelter) and having the fruit ripen slowly over a period of 2 to 4 weeks. Other years, when I just haven't wanted to deal with them because I've had my fill of tomatoes, I pick 'em green and give them to a friend who likes to eat fried green tomatoes and to make chow chow.

Once we reach mid-October, more or less, I notice a big decrease in their flavor and feel like they're scarcely worth picking after that---unless it is exceptionally hot, in which case the good flavor lasts a few days to a few weeks longer.

When I come up with my planting list, I'll post it here, but it likely will include Celebration, Phoenix and another couple of short DTM types that I've been wanting to try.

It is very hot here and I am incredibly unmotivated.

Dawn

I've asked this same question on the tomato forum and other places. Come back to the OK forum and there's my answer!
I'm thing about more purple price as it's doing well, tastes incredible and is actually as good as Roma for canning. Then, have to try my first Cherokee Purple and maybe some more lime green salad or another green variety.
Any good green varieties for fall planting?
I hope to be able to overwinter a few plants for early spring toms too.
I live in AZ, wishing I was back in OK.

what do you mean about planting fall tomatoes?

Tracy,

Well, we are just so obsessed with home-grown tomatoes here and, other than folks in Texas and the Gulf Coast, we probably have the best chance of squeezing in a fall crop. Some parts of the south//southeast have such awful disease issues in their extreme humidity that they don't seem as likely to plant a new crop for fall.

My favorite green-when-ripe types for fall are Green Grape and Lime Green Salad. Both are determinates and have pretty short DTMs so they always make a fall crop even if the cool weather arrives very early, which is rare but which does happen about 1 year out of 10.

Jessaka,

Because our growing season is so long here, we can have two tomato seasons. The spring season allows us to plant from latest March through latest April or even earliest May, and we harvest those tomatoes from late May/early June through late July or even early August. The fall season allows us to plant from late June through late July (and, personally, I feel like the earlier the better) and harvest fom September through maybe November depending on the weather.

Can you carry the spring-planted tomato plants through the whole summer and into the fall? Well, you can, but sometimes the plants themselves are so exhausted from producing a heavy spring/summer crop and from fighting the heat, pests and diseases that they do not produce very well in the fall. Growing up in Texas, I learned from the great Texas horticulturalist, Neil Sperry, that you should always plant fresh tomatoes for fall if you want the highest quality fall tomatoes possible and the highest possible yields. Generally, I start my tomato seeds for fall around the first of June and try to get them into the ground at the end of June or during the first couple of weeks in July.

With fall tomatoes, it is better to choose varieties that mature in 70-75 days or less because tomatoes grow and ripen more slowly in the lower temperatures and shorter daylengths of fall. You never know what you'll get with fall tomatoes. Some years I have a huge fall harvest, and other years, not so much. It is very, very weather-dependent. Since we moved here to Oklahoma (this is our 12th summer here) we have had our first killing frost of autumn as early as September 29th or 30th and as late as mid-December.

When you plant tomatoes for fall, the plants are at the mercy of the temperatures and humidity and, for the most part, they will not set fruit until temperatures fall back into the proper range, which can happen in mid- to late-August in a good year or in September in a normal year. However, in a very hot, very dry year like 2003 when the average daily humidity stays very, very low, I have had plants like Big Boy and Better Boy bloom and set fruit in August when the high temperatures were in the 105-112 range. For years, I couldn't understand how that was possible until a woman (Carla from Sac) who posts on the Tomato Forum mentioned several times that she gets great fruit set from all kinds of tomatoes in extreme heat because her humidity stays very low. That's when I made the connection between my great fruit set in 2003 and the low humidity that accompanied that horrible drought year (we received only 18" of rain here that year).

Some people don't plant fresh plants for fall but instead will cut back their spring tomato plants by half or more in mid- to late-July, just as soon as they've harvested most of their current crop. I've done that some years, and some years the plants have regrown well and produced really well and some years they haven't. So, I tend to prefer to start fresh with new, healthy plants for fall.

If your spring-planted tomato plants are healthy, you also can take cuttings from them, root them and have new plants for fall in just a couple of weeks.

The hardest part about planting fall tomatoes is figuring out where to put them. I either take out some of the lower-performing summer plants or I put the fall tomatoes in a bed as a replacement crop for bush beans or spring potatoes or onions....whatever is finishing up and leaving an 'empty' space in the garden. Sometimes I use them as replacements for squash plants after the squash vine borers take them out.

It is tempting to skip the whole idea of fall tomatoes when your spring-planted tomato plants are tall and lovely and simply covered in ripening tomatoes in mid- to late-June. However, July is often very, very hard on those plants and the same plants that were gorgeous and productive in late June are often tired and bedraggled by late July and, by then, they're about as glad to be replaced as you are glad that you're replacing them.

Dawn

Dawn, thanks for the helpful advice abouut fall tomatoes. About 4 years ago, I planted a couple of plants around September 1, and by the time the killing frost came, they were covered with dozens of green tomatoes of all sizes. So I thought I would try again this year. James

Can you give us a list of the best types to plant for the fall garden, Dawn? I know we ask a lot of you, but I don't have a clue and don't know where to begin looking. I started to research and found bits and pieces of info, but nothing comprehensive regarding the DTM without surfing the tomato suppliers lists and going thru each tomato one-by-one to find those with the shortest DTMs. I don't mind doing this generally, but if there is a better way to go about it, I would love to know.

Susan

Susan, I'm not Dawn, but I have used Tomato Growers Supply for that purpose because you can search for early tomatoes and it will give you the DTM in the narrative.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato DTM

I don't necessarily think there is a list of best types because we cannot accurately predict what fall weather will be like. In general, the tomato varieties with the greatest likelihood of success are those that have been bred specifically to set fruit in high heat (often referred to as heat-setter or hot-setter types) or those that have DTMs of no more than 70-75 days.

So, for fall, you could choose from the wide range of tomato varieties that are considered early to mid-season types, and in that group there are hundreds of varieties that are easily available.

In general, for fall, plants that produce smaller fruit perform better, and by smaller I mean anything from currant-sized up to maybe 8 oz. types. Tomatoes that are larger often don't have time to ripen before the cold weather arrives.

So, you could choose anything that produces....

Bite-sized tomatoes, whether they are classified as currant, cherry, pear or grape in shape. Examples: Black Cherry, SunGold, Red Robin, Yellow Canary, Orange Pixie, Sweet 100, Sweet Million, Small Fry, Mountain Belle

Smallish tomatoes up to 8-10 ounces. Examples: Early Girl, Bush Early Girl, Better Bush, Jetsetter, Celebrity, Carnival, Carmello, Mountain Pride, Glacier, Florida 91

Varieties with DTMs equal to or less than 75 days. Most of the above fit into this category, and I think many but not all of the ones I've listed above are Determinates.

Hybrid varieties bred specifically for their ability to set fruit at higher temperatures than the average tomato plant. Examples: Surefire, Heatwave, Sun Leaper, Sunmaster, Spitfire, Solar Set, Sunfire, Solar Fire, BHN444, BHN589 (like 444 but bred for better flavor) or Margo.

Heirloom tomatoes can be problematic for fall tomatoes. Many of them do not necessarily bear a heavy load of fruit to begin with so they are less of a 'sure thing'. I have grown some, though, that impressed me with their fall performance including Arkansas Traveler, Bradley Pink, Cherokee Purple, Black Krim, Indian Stripe, Porter, Azoychka, Russian Persimmon, Green Grape, Lime Green Salad and New Big Dwarf. I also have grown a lot of the Livingston tomatoes (Victory Seed Co.) as fall tomatoes and they have performed very well and often, if planted in June, manage to bloom and set fruit in August. The Livingston varieties that have performed best for me as fall tomatoes include Livingston's Paragon, Livingston's Magnus, Livingston's Main Crop Pink, Livingston's Gold Ball and Livingston's Favorite.

I have several varieties in the spring garden that are new to me this year that are reputed to set well in the heat including Gary O Sena and JD's Special C Tex. I'll probably take cuttings from them and try them as fall tomatoes to see how they perform in the fall.

I am in the mood to try something new, so this fall I may try a lot I haven't grown before, and likely they'll be from Willhite Seed because I know from experience that when I order seed from Wilhite I tend to receive it only 3 or 4 days after I order and you can't beat that kind of service. They only offer proven varieties they believe produce well in this region's hot climate. I'm thinking of trying Celebration, Early Doll, Phoenix and Margo from Willhite.

If wanting to plant varieties in containers for fall, some of the ones whose peformance has pleased me in past autumns includes Jaune Flamme', New Big Dwarf, Red Robin, Orange Pixie, Yellow Canary, Martino's Roma, Sweet Baby Girl and Window Box Roma.

Hope this info helps.

Dawn

Dawn, I was very late getting my tomato plants out so they are still very small, just starting to set blooms. Do you think they have a chance of making it thru the summer or do I need to replace them next month? Sure would hate to have to do that as they haven't produced anything yet!

klol, I'm not Dawn and nowhere near the pro she is, but several of my plants are just starting too, that's just how I do it and it works for me. Except for 3 or 4 I buy as plants, I start most from seed outside in the winter and it takes awhile for them to catch up. Last year mine missed the problems my friends' and neighbors' had that planted "on time". So, not advice for everybody, but I think you'll be ok.

Klo,

I think they'll be fine too....they'll just produce later and there's nothing wrong with that.

I certainly wouldn't replace them with new plants for fall if they're still healthy and producing well in late June/early July, but would just carry them over into fall.

I never treat my tomatoes the same two years in a row because every year the weather is different. Some years I replace virtually all the spring tomatoes with fresh plants for fall. Some years I don't plant many fall tomatoes. Some years, it is about 50% spring plants carried over to fall and 50% new plants. It just depends on how they're producing and what the weather is like. If we are having an exceptionally dry, droughty summer here in southcentral OK, like we did in 2003 and 2005, I often just give up on the garden and stop watering because at some point I can't keep spending lots of money on watering when the drought makes it hard to get good production even with a lot of watering.

Do what feels/seems right to you because you know your plants and how they're looking and performing.

Last year, which was deliciously rainy and cool for Oklahoma almost all summer long, I didn't replace many spring plants with new plants for fall....just mostly carried over the spring plants to fall.

Dawn

I have plants almost five feet and have some knee high, just because I continue to plant every place I can find to put in another plant and give it something to climb. LOL I guess my lazy gardener method benefits me in some ways.

Thank you both for your help. Betty, I just love that large blue pot in your garden area!! Since my tomatoes are just getting started I'm going to leave well enough alone and see what happens. I don't have much luck with tomatoes in the best of years. Something always seems to happen and I loose them or they don't produce much. I keep trying tho, I love fresh tomatoes!

Just finished planting from seed Rutgers Select, Glacier, Early Girl, Celebrity and Kimberly. If it looks like my Spring planted crop is still going strong, I'll let it be, otherwise, these are going into the garden around July 1. James

Thanks so much, Dawn. That is a good list for me to choose from. I had thought about Cherokee Purple and Black Krim. I am getting adventurous, huh? But, you see I am willing to try anything in the way of tomatos, LOL!

Now, my next question is where will I find tomatos for planting late this month? Horn's is still carrying tomato plants, but not many varieties that you list, and I really don't want to sow any more seeds. I have enuff seedlings to cope with right now w/o having to baby them and the plants I already have.

I am assuming maybe the local Farmer's Market may have some plants? Anyone know? I don't think I've ever seen plants at the big box stores, and limited varieties anyway.

Thought about ordering a few online, but not sure how they would ship in the heat.

I am going to save your list for future reference, too.

Susan

Forgot to add Black Cherry. I find sources that sell the plants, and I'd really like to grow this one above all others. However, I don't know how it would handle shipping in the heat. Probably not well. It does have the 70 DTM date you advised we should shoot for. Maybe it wouldn't get so huge for me planting that late either?

Susan

i'm certain there are options closer for you, but if not, the tomato man's daughter should be selling tomato seedlings for a fall crop around july 15th. she is located on the southwest side of tulsa.

Here is a link that might be useful: lisa merrell - the tomato man's daughter

Susan,

I have no idea about the availability of seedlings for fall planting in the OKC metro area since I don't live or shop there (mileage-wise, the Dallas-Fort Worth area is much closer for me). Maybe someone who lives in that area will see this and tell you where they get their fall tomato plants if they aren't raising them from seed.

I raise mine from seed and it's very easy at this time of year. I sow the seed in recycled 6-packs that held flower transplants purchased this spring and I raise them outside in full sun. That eliminates the whole issue of hardening them off because they grow in full sun and full heat from the very start. I have found that raising them this way gives me very tough transplants that don't mind being transplanted in the worst summer weather. Of course, those six packs must be watered at least twice a day and that might be impossible for you with Jess about to give birth because I'm sure you'll be busy helping her in those first few weeks when no one gets enough sleep or rest.

I have no idea how transplants would ship in the summer because I've never ordered tomato transplants, but I'd assume they might do alright. Otherwise, reputable firms like Selected Plants wouldn't ship them for fall planting.

The three sources for tomatoes in Oklahoma that I know about and which are most likely to have a great selection for fall tomatoes are The Tomatoman's Daughter and Duck Creek Farms in the Tulsa area and Sunrise Farms in Blanchard. They all have websites and you might check those website and see if they have fall transplants available and, if so, then when and also see if they have a variety listing of what they expect to have for fall. I would assume that there are some vendors at the OKC Farmer's Market that do indeed offer transplants for fall planting, but don't know how you could find that out now, other than to ask around while you're at the market.

I've never seen SunGold or Black Cherry or most the others on my list available anywhere here in southern OK or northcentral Texas. That's why I grow from seed....if you want specific varieties at specific times, the only guaranteed way to have them is to grow your own. Otherwise you're restricted to whatever the retailers are offering. The selection here is always the same old, same old stuff and I seldom see anything I want offered for fall planting, with the exception of a couple of the heat-setting types like Solar Fire or Spitfire. That's one of the main reasons I started raising my own from seed years ago---because I wanted to grow heirlooms and no one sold heirloom transplants at the time, so I had to grow them myself.

My late plantings tend to get just as big as my early plantings because they grow really fast in hot weather and we have lots of hot weather. It all depends though on how quickly the weather cools in the fall. I think that if the temperatures allow, fall tomatoes set fruit earlier than the DTMs would suggest....and believe it probably is because of all the heat and the long daylength when they're transplanted. The fall tomatoes get off to a faster start in warmer conditions than those the spring tomatoes have to deal with when they're transplanted into relatively cool soil and are exposed to relatively cool nighttime temps and fewer hours of daylight per day.

Dawn