You have my sympathy. I have faced this dilemma any number of times. Awhile ago, I sent an expensive flower arrangement for condolences to a close relative out of state. Of course, I went to the funeral. I was shocked by the junky arrangement that had come in our name. What a rip-off, and at such a time.

So now I do what you are doing. I try to find a good florist in the area by asking people who live there and then ordering direct, rather than thru FTD or online. North of Boston, two I can recommend are Fleur de Lis in Andover and Steve's in both Haverhill and Andover. Not cheap but good.

I also speak to the florist and tell them exactly what I want in the arrangement, according to what they have on hand. I let them know that I know a lot about flowers and am very fussy (could you tell?). I tell them I am a gardener and arranger myself blah, blah, blah.

This may seem extreme but these things are expensive and because I really am a gardener, my family/friends expect Mother Nature herself to show up at the front door.

prairiemoon2,
I have received extraordinary flowers from Calyx & Corolla from a dear friend on a very special occasion. Like Winstons they are not ordinary or inexpensive. I do have a friend who ordered a wreath from Smith + Hawkin and was so disappointed by it's lack of fullness she contacted them to return it, to their credit they were very willing and helpful. Another suggestion would be to google florists in the community where the recipient lives. For example I have a wonderful local florist but if I went to them to send flowers to you they would do it through ftd or the like and you would not receive the same quality arrangement as you would if they made it up and delivered it....hope this makes sense. kt

Here is a link that might be useful: Calyx & Corolla

Try B. Brooks

www.bbrooks.com

They are an upscale wire sevice and do a great job!

WG

I have had that same experience ginny, of going to a funeral and not being at all happy with the flowers that were sent. Since then I do try to notice any flowers that have been sent that I like and where they came from. At some point I found Winston and after sending them, people couldn't stop raving about how gorgeous the flowers were. Actually, I am glad you reminded me, that the last time I also spoke to the florist and asked for what I wanted specifically. Good idea. You're right, when people know you garden they expect something wonderful. lol

kt, I looked over their website and they offer some nice arrangements too. Probably the same prices as Winston. Of course those that I like the most are the lush $200. ones! Glad to know what to expect from Smith + Hawkins. Yes, I stopped and thought about where the second arrangement was going and I am having second thoughts about sending flowers, as it is really in an inaccessible area and not sure what kind of florists are there. I might have to think of something else I can actually mail.

WG...BBrooks is also a very nice site. I think I came up with another recommendation for them on an old GW post.

Thank you all, very helpful as always. Looks like I should be able to find what I wanted. :-)

Prairie -- I don't have a specific suggestion for you but reading some articles recently about holiday shopping, I saw this on florist 'scams'. Not to scare you -- but good to know this type of thing goes on and how to avoid it.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: FTC Warning Florists

I've been studying floral design with the idea of eventually adding it to my horticultural (and marketing) background to build a small, custom flower-and-plant business, "someday" (It's winter, and all I have right now is pipe dreams while the garden is dormant...). It's been interesting, reading the comments here and noting what people are looking for in a florist or floral service. I'm tucking it into my file!

Winston's has a top reputation for upscale design and service. Their design philosophy is founded on the European style of design, which calls for abundant, tightly-packed overstuffed arrangements bursting with exotic and interesting flowers. You won't see "poms" (chrysanthemums) and carnations in their products! Think about those luscious French Impressionist still life paintings of floral themes. They also sell the French-provincial country look, with vases and cachepots, French antique garden furniture and other rustic touches to set the mood. You can just imagine a big cream-colored porcelain pitcher filled to overflowing with fragrant tulips, set on a shabby-chic little bistro table against a mossy backdrop.

Drooool. lol

I've received exactly one arrangement from Winston's and I practically cried when it went by because it was so beautiful. Not that big but packed with unusual plant material in palest blues, lavenders, and white. So, so gorgeous. I saved the container but my humble efforts are not worthy of it.

in my catering business,i have been working with susan at burlington florist for the last 8 yrs. she is super. i describe her to all my clients as 'like winston's w/o the winston's price tag'. susan is SOOOO easy to work with, will do whatever style or particular flowers and greens, that appeal to you, and is VERY reasonably priced. tell her i sent you, even if you just call to talk to her. such a nice person.
-mindy

Thank you all again for the input.

Thanks Sue for that link. Scams seem to be everywhere. Did you see the show on DR Phil, where people had set up a scam charging tons of money on people's credit cards to arrange appointments with Dr Phil and Robin? That is what this scam reminded me of.

Thanks mindy for that recommendation for Burlington Florist. I did order from Winston's this time, but I will keep Burlington Florist in mind for next time. Sounds like a great alternative.

I haven't heard yet if the flowers were received but I am sure they will be a hit.

Thanks everyone, nice to have a few ideas of where to go when you need flowers.

:-)

After reading the scam info, I looked at the local phone book to see if anything "fishy" was there. Sure enough, there were lots of listings for florists by city (e.g. "Marblehead Florist," "Beverly Florist") with no street address, and an 800 number. One non-local set-up advertising local-city delivery (and listed the names of local cities) did disclose that it is located in Utah. Probably trying to stay on the up and up.

I have no qualm with "floral arrangement-delivery brokers" advertising locally, but they should make it very up-front that they are not brick-and-mortar operations, and are only a wire service broker.

Hello..

I feel bad after asking for other suggestions, I still ended up ordering from Winston. [g] I did find the other alternatives you all offered very much in the ballpark of Winston, but I guess in the end, the prices were as high or higher and I have been in the brick and mortar store at Winston's and received flowers from them and loved them, so I went with the tried and true.

Burlington Florist, which I just didn't have time to explore that as a possibility but really want to try that in the future, as a potentially lower cost alternative.

I do want to say, that I was able to call Winston and tell them how much I wanted to spend and created my own arrangement from flowers they had available. I set a limit of $50. for the arrangement which didn't include tax/delivery and specifically asking for a small table arrangement, which they had in a 10" tall size.

The flowers were received and as expected, they raved about them. They went to someone who is a gardener and not easy to please, so I was very satisfied that they really brought some pleasure.

Thanks for all the input, it really helped. :-)

No reason to feel bad. Winston's is famous in New England for good reason. They may be costlier than other florists, but you have a guarantee of excellence. I'd enjoy working for them. :)

Thanks cady..never thought about working for them. Wouldn't that be an experience?! [g]

Think of the employee discounts. teehee

I had to add to this thread again.

I actually am a professional florist. I own my own company but do only weddings and large special events.

I love floristry, but it is not the glamour gig you might think it is. Take it from me!

I suppose whitegarden, it is the same with most things. Doing something as a hobby for pleasure is always better than having to do it for a living. As a matter of fact, I have often wondered if gardening for a living would dim my pleasure of gardening. I have someone in my family that just 'loves' sports and at one time I was going to suggest they try working in that field, but I wondered would it become work and they might lose their enthusiasm for it. :-)

I echo PrairieMoon2's comments. Like any business, the florist and floriculture fields are a way of life. You trade off dreams of easy wealth for a lifestyle and career that you love.

That is true of all the horticultural professions and landscape design/architecture as well. The only ones getting rich are some of the guys who own the companies that cut grass, shear shrubs etc. for the McMansions. Not the guys who actually do the work but the ones who own the companies.

Speaking as someone in the middle of returning to horticulture as a field after years in another profession, I can say that making the transition is slow and not one that yields high returns right away. The work is there; however, to succeed I will have to work long hard hours, often doing the things I don't really consider the "ideal" parts of my profession. Being capable of handling the business part, in particular, is crucial and often not the end of a profession that creative people like to do, but must.

This is the same whether you're in the gardening trade or the florist trade. I believe that you can retain your love of gardening (or floral design) even while working hard as a professional gardener or florist, you just won't have much time to mind your own garden during the first years of your career!

I'm studying floral design now and plan to do some apprentice time in a florist shop to learn the business, even while I expand my horticultural work, because I find it to be complementary to the garden work I do, and hope to that the expanded skills in both floral design and business enhance my opportunities down the road. Starting a business is challenging, but maintaining and growing one is much moreso.

I could be wrong, but I think it is rare for someone to have a strong creative side and a strong business side. [g] I would imagine that often someone with the creative side colaborates with someone with the business side to manage a 'creative' business like something in the garden/floral design field. If you can do both, you are ahead of the game, I would think.

It must be a difficult change from what you were doing before. Especially financially. But if you have to work anyway and can arrange things so that later you can spend most of your time doing that part of gardening that you enjoy the most, it could work out very well for you. I seem to remember career counselors always tell you to do something you love. If you can make it work out financially for you in the long run, it would seem perfect.

What part of gardening are you wanting to end up in?

Business ability and creativity are not mutually exclusive. Any successful entrepreneur must have both capacities. But people who excel in business tend to go into business for business's sake, hiring fulltime designers to do the creative development. Look at Kabloom -- the founder is the same person who founded Staples, the office supply giant. He is a business guy who applied a business formula that works whether you are selling stationery or flower arrangements. But his companies hire talent at all levels to handle the daily creation or acquisition of creative product.

A small-business florist must handle all aspects him/herself, as must a small-business garden designer/horticulturist. That means, if you are a creative type, you must learn the fundamentals of bookkeeping, inventorying, product marketing, purchasing, business relationship-building, customer service, employee managment (if you have employees) and payroll matters, pricing and the ability to calculate correctly how much volume/product you must sell to stay in business, and all of the other technical stuff in addition to being able to make and provide the creative stuff you sell.

Someone who is totally "artsy" -- that lovable but la-la-la type that can create and be free, but can't balance a checkbook to save his/her life, will never be able to handle business, and probably should marry an accountant or businessperson. Others are pure business and need to marry an artsy type. If the two types find each other -- voila! -- you have a team. lol

For the rest of the world, however, you have to have some of both background. If a creative artistic person who learns the design and floriculture side, can learn enough of the above business fundaments, he or she can successfully run a shop. Or they find a good accountant and business consultant, and relay on those professionals to advise them, and follow their advice.

It may seem overwhelming for "plant person" to have to master business as well, but I don't believe that learning the stuff is that complicated. Especially if we start small. The floriculture and horticulture programs at North Shore Community College (Mass.), where I'm studying floral design. require students to take a business and marketing courses that are designed and focused on these two industries, so students can relate the business practices directly to their own trade and how these skills will relate to it. This is wise training.

As for me, you're right, it is financially stressful at the moment, and nothing is guaranteed. I'm in transition at this time, and that is a precarious feeling, but my "gut" says I'm on the right course. I know my hort stuff and have marketable skills, and I'm always learning and adding to those skills and 30 years of experience in hort. But it takes a lot of will and perserverance to get a business off the ground.

Ideally, I'd like to eventually establish a full-service garden and interior plant/floral business that provides consultations and installation/maintenance. We'd grow some of our own seasonal and year-round materials in a private nursery/greenhouse as well.

We plan to start small with our hands-on horticultural services and find our niche and market, then carefully build on our foundation. Meanwhile, I'm reviewing business practices and learning as much as I can in entrepreneurial seminars at the local college business center. :)

I am one of those rare people who has both sides working for them. I have won design awards in most of my professions, but also am a very good business person - organization and management just come naturally to me. I think that is why my business does so well.

I do still LOVE flowers and don't think I could do this if I didn't. The work can be dirty and laborious at times, but the final photos and joy on the brides' faces make it all worth while!

Cady,sounds like you are a very busy person right now. :-)
Interesting choice for a business. Although I am not in a position to know, I imagine there is a very good market for indoor plantscaping. Have you done market research on that too? Are houseplants and tropicals what interest you the most? So will you do floral arrangement delivery, or will your floral design be used more for interior plant design?

I imagine interior design would also provide more year round business than exterior design as well. From what I have heard, you are right, it takes a lot of will and perserverance to start a new business..AND a lot of energy!

whitegarden, it really does sound like a very happy profession to be in. Despite the Bridezilla series on TV. lol Could I assume you don't grow all your own material?

:-)

No, I do cut from the garden, but most things come from the Boston Flower Exchange. I do plant shrubs and things with an eye to what I will need for weddings. For example, I grow Diablo and cut nearly all of it every year. My Lady's Mantle comes in very handy in spring as do my Dutchess de Nemoire peonies. I grow Dusty Miller in quantity and use it several times over the course of the growing season. It is fun to mix the things I grow into the arrangements!

Oh, that is so great whitegarden. I figured just for volume of material alone you would need to go somewhere like the Boston Flower exchange. It is really nice that you can use some of what you have in your garden too. I hope your clients know how lucky they are. :-)

Did you mean Sambucus Diablo? Do you use just the flowers of the Lady's Mantle? That must be a rare peony, as I couldn't find one reference to it on google. I bet your arrangements are gorgeous.

:-)

Whitegarden, it does sound like your studio custom-work setup is a great lifestyle/career for you. Some people don't like to mix home and work, and prefer to have a storefront they can lock and leave every evening. Your work sounds like hard work AND fun.

Prairiemoon, my focus is more on outdoor gardens and hort, but with interiors as an extension of it. The trend now is to meld indoor and outdoor living, and I perceive indoor plants and plantscapes as a natural "segue" from outdoor rooms to interiors. You can create a sense of greater space and unity by carrying a theme or look through a garden and into the home. Think of how using the same flooring from one room to the next, in a house, creates a flow and makes the space feel bigger, and the rooms more related to each other. The same idea can be expressed by sharing some elements of the garden with the house interior.

No, I don't plan to lay down sod from the backyard into the living room. lol. But you can have a lush planting of lilies, agapanthus and other flowers by the patio, then create a gorgeous table centerpiece or hallway display using those same flowers (or similar ones with the same textures, colors, "feel") in a cut arrangement. People coming in from the garden continue to enjoy it even as they walk through the house. You can also achieve the effect using live plants such as ferns and ivies -- they are in the garden, and then again in the house.

It is not a rare peony--just hard to spell! It is Paeonia 'Duchess de Nemours', a luscious fat white double. Must be gorgeous in whitegarden's arrangements.

ginny, you're right. I knew I hadn't spelled it correctly.

I don't know the full name of the Diablo. It is chocolate brown foliage with a very upright habit. And I use the flowers and the foliage of the Lady's Mantle.

WG

Well, I still wasn't quite right. En francais, of course, she is "duchesse" but most catalogs have anglicized her to "duchess".

Whitegarden, do you mean Physocarpus 'Diabolo'? That's the genus and cultivar for ninebark, a native shrub. The official named cultivar is 'Diabolo,' and I believe that is trademarked. But unofficial nurseries of it have labeled it 'Diablo' and other spinoffs. It has a rich chocolate red foliage with leaves that are maple-ish and clusters of pink- to pinkish- to whitish flowers that must look lovely in a bridal floral ensemble.

Sorry cady, I think I misunderstood you. Now I think I understand it. I have seen a number of articles on the concept of uniting the indoor and outdoor garden. Just recently I think I saw it in Fine Gardening. You are really 'cutting edge' cady! :-) Well...I wish you a lot of luck and energy. :-)

Thanks for the correct spelling on the Peony. I linked to it below.

I was thinking of Physocarpus and said Sambucus. I don't have the Diablo, but I do have Seward's Summer Wine. It is still small but next spring I think it is going to be much bigger. The foliage is very pretty warm brown tones too, I can just imagine how pretty it could be in arrangements. They actually recommend cutting and pinching it a few times over the season to keep it bushy, so that works out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paeonia 'Duchess de Nemours'

Yes, that is the Diablo I am talking about cady.

Thanks, PrairieMoon2. :) For the time being, most of my clients just want outdoor garden design and maintenance, but occasionally someone asks for container plantings that can be moved inside for the winter, and that's where I can work with the homeowner to plan an integrated look for outdoor-indoor. Adding floral arrangements (fresh or dry, special-occasion or everyday) will be the icing on the cake.

Must admit that my "work" in the biz of late has just included greening up Holiday arrangements until 2am to help out a client. That said, combining business and creative into a successful business is never, ever easy. The discipline involved is overwhelming when one would really rather be out deadheading on a gorgeous day instead of paying bills.

Having consulted to many new-start business on this exact subject -- how to use your talent and stay in business, too -- the biggest failure factor is a lack of discipline. It's why 70% of new restaurants fold, and why "craft shops" spring up and go away just as quickly. The professions that are disciplined to start with -- accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc. -- know that in the beginning it's good to have someone available to help them through.

When I first met with wouldbe clients I'd tell them straight out -- plan on spending 50% of your time on what you love about your business and the other 50% of your time being a business person. Take advantage of GOOD advertising reps and join the Chamber of Commerce for the information found there. See if your county/city/state has an Economic Development Commission that's sole purpose is to help businesses stay in business. If, after that, my wouldbe client was still paying attention, I'd talk to them about my services.

The only other "must have" for my new clients was that theirr business be a legal entity. If you don't have the $400 to become an LLC, you aren't ready to start in business. Period. Keeping yourself personally open to legal exposure, no matter what creative juices you can't wait to use, keeps an edge of fear going after the novelty wears off. Usually that takes about three months, and usually AFTER something has happened. It doesn't matter what the business is. Inevitably someone will try and take advantage of something that went wrong.

It amazes me to this day how many people met the above with a blank stare. Enthusiasm is needed, but is not exclusive to keeping a successful business running.

Martie, who is still nursing floral-knife blisters but had a blast, anyway :-)

Sound advice from Martie. The LLC is a must (you can also register as a sole proprietor if you are a "force of one" with no employees), as is a business license for retail selling.

One thing that holds people back from registering as "legit" businesses, is the fear that if they can't make a go of the business, they will not be eligible for unemployment benefits (if you are a business owner, you don't qualify) and a reluctance to adhere to the tax structure (you must pay, quarterly, 15.3% of your estimated quarterly income). If you're starting on a shoestring, these facts are disquieting. That's why having a solid financial base is important when you start out, whether through SBA loans or substantial savings set aside for business start-up through the first three years minimum.

From my observations (as someone who has had to get started on her own), it's a lot easier if you have a spouse with a good income, who can support you while you get on your feet. Even then, success isn't guaranteed. I see many small boutique businesses, from retail shops to interior design services, get started up by women whose spouses provide the backing. Some succeed well, some sort of succeed, more as a hobby. Some fail and close soon because the person just didn't have the knowledge, discipline or other crucial factor.

There's a big difference between hobby-passtime, and business!

Maybe this should be a new thread, as we have veered off the florist topic. lol

cady..... that actually sounds like fun and a lot of diversity in what you are/will be doing. I bring in plants every fall but never thought of actually preparing container plantings. My house is really not set up well for an integration and carry over from outside/inside, so I just make do with the only two windows that offer enough light to keep everything alive from one summer to the next. It would be great to have that potential to do that.

martie... The hour you went to bed doesn't sound like fun but the holiday arranging does. :-) You must have done a lot of it to end up with blisters. I have seen you contribute to a number of threads and I didn't realize that you also are in the business and do consulting too. I love the advice you have given. Very solid, sensible input.

I am finding this discussion fascinating. Especially since I don't know anyone personally that is in the business so it is great to have a chance to hear what it is like from first hand experiences. I do feel bad though, that others on the forum might be missing out on it, due to the misleading title of this thread. I think it would be great to start a new thread.

:-)

Prairiemoon2,
The outdoor-indoor transition concept works nicely if you have a patio with sliding or French doors that allow you to see and step in and out of the house and patio. But you don't even need that to have a nice transition. If you have a front entry portico, porch, step, etc., it can be as simple as having a nice urn or planter of greenery and/or flowers that is repeated indoors when you step over the threshold. If you have a console, catch-all table or even just floorspace just inside the door, a complementary urn/planter works well. Even if there is not enough light inside the door to sustain live plants, you can mimic the outdoor container planting using dried flowers/grasses or artificials that have the same colors, texture and "look" as the outdoor one. If all you have is some wall space, then get a flat-backed wall planter in the same style as the outdoor urn/container, and fill with same.

It can be really simple. You can even keep fresh flowers arranged in the wall planter (using a hidden watertight container and floral foam) and change them out as needed.

Martie,

What is involved in applying for an LLC? I am currently a sole proprietor.

whitegarden: An LLC is easy no matter what state you're in. Unlike a sole proprieter, it legally separates business and personal assets. Thus, if you're sued or fined in any way, your personal money, home, car, etc. is safe. Not so with a sole proprietorship. SP's is more of a bookkeepping thing rather than a legal thing. Though you can do the paperwork yourself, I always suggested getting a good lawyer to do it. It's worth the money to have it done right the first time and not have to hassle with the technical terms. If nothing else, it ensures that no one else can use your business name. Again, unlike an SP.

I don't do this kind of consulting anymore. Wanted more "me" time than my own business allowed. (LOL, here.) I now am an ad rep for a large electronic media firm, and do marketing consultation for small businesses on an informal basis.

My biz experience was over three years with a local florist/nursery. I was the outside manager from March to October on weekends. I loved it. Also learned to green up out of necessity. Not my favorite way to spend time -- no fun working with sticks the entire time -- but I got the basis of floral design and could probably hold my own if needed.

All this info is, IMHO, logical and fundamental. I would never consider myself an expert nor feel that I am qualified to give specific legal advice, but I know people and I know business.

Martie