How do you like the Aggrand fertilizer...I have looked at that online and was wondering about it...have you tried it yet?

Hello!

I personally have not used it but gave some to my boyfriend and Mom who used it. They put it on plants and the one plant my boyfriend used it on got huge! I don't know how it works on grass yet.

Thanks!

Lisa

Hello Swflagrdnr,

Wow, wow, wow! That is a lot of great information!

I don't know what kind of grass I have but, I think it is the Augustine. It isn't soft and has thicker blades, I can take a picture of it and maybe someone will know. I will also look it up on line to see if I can tell.

I do not have a sprinkler system and with all the money I just put into this house, I won't be putting on in anytime soon. I agree, the grass never looks like it does up North but it has to look better than it does right now. This house was my parents, after my Father died, my Mom rented it and they proceeded to do nothing to the yard or house.

I sold my house in Ohio, am paying the mortgage on this one and want to fix it up, maybe start a business and then sell this house and go somewhere else. I am in Port St Lucie and this is a huge adjustment for me but I want to do this.

So, chemicals could be the only thing that works for the grass until it is in better shape...ugh. I am firmly against chemicals, my father would still be alive if it weren't for a chemical he was exposed to years ago that gave him an environmental illness that killed him.

I understand that organics can only work to a degree, do you feel it is worth trying the alfalfa or compost tea? I have a large, corner lot and the strip sod will be needed in a quite a few spots. I wish I could use seed but was told by a landscaper that stopped by that I couldn't, don't know if that was his way of getting me to buy sod or not.

I'll find out what kind of straw, er, I mean grass I have, that is a start to any program.

I really appreciate the information and time you took, thank you!

Lisa

Best of Luck.
I am not saying that organics only cannot work or that it will not work, only that because of the cultural conditions required for Florida turf grasses, organics are a hard fit.
Port St Lucie is zone 10, so yeah, its probably St. Augustine. If it is St Augustine they dont sell seeds for it - I dont think it sets seed. It only reporduces by stolons or runners, so sod or plugs will be the way you need to go.
As I said, St. Aug is very thirsty, so ANY program you use -organic or synthetic will require loits of irrigation.
Alfalfa or compost tea cannot hurt and can only help. However, with a lawn like yours sounds, Im not hopeful that it is the "medicine" your sick lawn needs.
Once a St. Augustine lawn is well established and growing, then I think you can slowely begin to add Organic Matter and ADD organic cultural practices to your regime. But to get things moving, unfortunately, I think synthetic is the way to go.
Go over to the Florida Gardening forum and ask for tips there. Be forewarned, however, lawns are frowned upon by many gardners due to their high water requirements and the fact that they are alien to Florida. So brace yourself for some "non advice."

Sorry to hear about your Dad. It sounds like your not happy to be in Florida. Cant blame you under the circumstances. The best thing to do is to embrace palms, tropicals, orchids, hibuscus and other plants that can only be grown here. Many CAN be cutilvated using excluisively organic practices. A Florida landscape will never be mistaken for one in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana or North Carolina. But with a little work and know how, it can sometimes look like Brazil!

Best wishes.

Hi Swedeone,

It's great to hear of yet another person wanting to take care of their lawn naturally/organically.

The first thing we need to do is to identify your turf so we know what we're dealing with. Different types of turf have different nutrient (primarily N) requirements as well as different cultural practices requirements. So, click onto this Turfgrass Identification link to get that done. Just for example, centipede only requires maybe 1 or 2 lbs of N per 1000sqft for an entire season & does best when you mow it very low (1" or less cutting height,) while St Augustine likes more N (nitrogen) and does it's best when you mow it very high, 3-1/2" to 4" (or as high as your mower will go.)

Next, we need to dispell a myth......

Posted by swflagrdnr 10 (My Page) on Wed, Mar 28, 07 at 13:16
With lots of water, and artificial fertilizer this should take a season or so. I am fairly certain that to force the St. Aug to grow on my sandy soil I will need a good quality chemical/synthetic fertilizer.
Only after I establishing my St. Aug lawn will I consider organics. Then, I may be limited to fetilizing with some sort of seed meal.

That's just wrong....and it's an improper recommendation in this organic lawn care forum.

You can supply all the nutrients your turfgrass needs using ordinary inexpensive feed grains. Personally, I have bermudagrass, known as a nitrogen HOG, and I use alfalfa pellets & soybean meal exclusively. I use NO chemical fertilizers, herbicides or pesticides on my lawn whatsoever and my lawn is the deepest darkest green lawn in my entire neighborhood.

If you haven't already, you really need to read the Organic Lawn Care FAQ's from right here on the Garden Web. Then, for some additional info which will help describe the process, I'd also recommend that you read How Organic Fertilizer Works, which descibes why using the chemical fertilizers just really isn't worth it. Once you read these, you'll likely have some questions, so bring em here & we'll get you some answers! :)

Next, all you really need to do is to treat your lawn as if it's the nicest lawn in the neighborhood. It's funny, but just treating your lawn like it's the nicest around tends to make it into the nicest around! :) But, you need to know how to do that.....so....

David Hall really says it best:

"Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Wed, Aug 30, 06 at 2:02

Here are the Lawn Care Basics:

1) Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an hour in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds.

2) Mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. Bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses are the most dense when mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. Dense grass shades out weeds and uses less water when tall. Dense grass feeds the deep roots you're developing in 1 above.

3) Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 4 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above."

It really isn't any more complicated than that.

Following these simple cultural practices will make your lawn look better than most all the lawns in your neighborhood.

The only thing he doesn't mention is to mulch mow, you really should always leave the clippings (don't bag 'em.)

1) Grass clippings are 80% water and decompose quickly releasing nutrients into your soil.
2) Mulching provides up to 1/3rd of the lawns yearly fertilizer needs providing nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium and trace amounts of micronutients.
3) Mulching reduces the amount of time you spend bagging and fertilizing.
4) Grass clippings donÂt cause thatch. (over watering and over fertilizing do)
5) Mulching reduces yard waste by 20-40%.
6) Mulching reduces the amount of water your lawn needs.

I hope my 2 cents helps you some....

Good day, Dan

Great advice from okcdan, especially with regard to his watering recommendations and practices! I'm confident that his lawn rocks! I have read his other posts and he is thoughtful, accomplished and knowledgeable. I must disagree, however, with his optimism on organics and Florida lawns

He is in Oklahoma, so his advice is not pertinent to our Florida discussion. Also, I am not familiar with Bermuda grass as anything other than a pesky weed in Florida, so his recommendations about his successes with Bermuda grass in Oklahoma arent that useful with regard to growing St. Augustine in Florida. Bermuda grass is not a common homeowner lawn grass in peninsular Florida/zones 10&11 because it takes an ungodly amount of feeding, maintenace and water to make it look acceptable down here and even then its plagued by pests and diseases. Again - Florida lawns need Florida advice. Florida sun, Florida seasons and Florida soil are substnatially different from most all other parts of the country even when growing grass in those other parts of the country has its own cultural challenges. (for example, up North homeowner frequently lime their soils to increase alkalinity - an arguably organic process since lime is basically powdered and heated rock - but in Florida, our soils are already highly alkaline and St Aug, Bahia and many others ironically prefer slightly acidic soils, so liming would be highly counterproductive)

Most likely your house is built on fill dirt, a calcerous, high ph, sand mix with shells and little to no organic matter and little to no Nitrogen content (although, curiously, usually decent phosp. which helps our hibiscus to bloom!). This means that we should add organic matter and organic practices to the lawn (as I stated) BUT if your current lawn is a brown, patchy mess of dead runners and weeds and you want to create a green looking homeowner's lawn in Florida you need to go synthetic. LATER (or at the same time if you have the ability to do twice the work), after your lawn is establuished and a thick green blanket covers your yard you can try to phase out the chemicals.

If you try to create a Florida (especially St. Augustine) lawn using organic methods you are very likely to fail. The only way I would consider it is if you were to bring in truck loads of black top soil and build up an inch or so all over your lawn, then bring in truck loads of well composted/rotted manure and add another inch. That might give you enough of a soil base to kick things off with an organics only program. I doubnt you have the time/money/other resources to do this.

Only after a lawn is well established should you try only organic methods. Sorry, its the truth and unless you want to waste much time and money, start out with syntehtics and then later experiment with organic methods.

As I said in my first post: todays St. Augustine is the result of years worth of selective breeding and culturing. It is specially engineered and grown in Florida using a specific set of non-organic practices. It needs these synthetics to look good. It is the synthetics that are "natural" to them. If you will allow me another analogy, St. Augustine grass is like a steroid built body builder who looks incredibly strong but cannot climb a rope. The only way that bodybuilder will develop the real world strength needed to climb a rope is to go back to the gym, forego weight machines and isolation exercises (i.e. syntetic practices) and lift heavy weights using compound movements (i.e. organic opractices). That being said, a juiced up bodybuilder will be much stronger in the rope climb after 6 months of organic training than a "ninety pound weakling" would be after a similar period of training, even though both would reap benefits.

I realize I may have straiend the analogy past its breaking point, but hopefully I have made my point. Start synthetic, later once established, move on to organic.

By the way, organic practices are a lot easier in Florida once you get up and running. Unlike up North where growing cycles must be timed, etc, in Florida, since its always warm (so long as you water) the grass is always growing and organic matter can always break down quickly. Up north if you put down some seed meal in November, it may still be there when the thaw comes in May, if the starving crows dont get it first.

Good luck!

Hmmmmm.... this is the Organic Lawn Care Forum....

This thread is titled "Moved to Florida, grass is a mess and I want ONLY organic"

swflagrdnr said: "Only after a lawn is well established should you try only organic methods."
Then went on to say: "start out with syntehtics and then later experiment with organic methods."
Also said: "He is in Oklahoma, so his advice is not pertinent to our Florida discussion."

That's just wrong. It's not true & is ill chosen advice.

Since when does the state you reside in have anything to do with whether or not you choose organic practices?

Since when is St Augustine grass unique only to Florida?

Since when is the practice of organic gardening an experiment?

Since when has plant nutrition changed exclusively for the state of Florida?

St Augustine grass is grown in many other parts of the country other than Florida, including right here in Oklahoma as well as Texas and Louisiana to name a couple.

Successful organic lawn programs are centered around the soil. It must be alive with wide variety of beneficial microorganisms and bugs. Beneficial microbes both feed and protect the plants from disease-causing microbes. All the organic gardener does is feed the beneficial microbes and let them do their work.

Chemical fertilizers provide an "empty" type of food directly to the plants. This is like the empty calories we get from eating pure refined sugar. Microbes provide full service to the plants. They decompose dead plant and animal residues to humus; combine nitrogen and carbon to prevent nutrient loss; suppress disease; produce plant growth regulators; develop soil structure, tilth, and water penetration/retention; clean up chemical residues; shift soil pH toward neutral; retrieve nutrients from distant parts of the soil; decompose thatch; and control nitrogen supply to the plants according to need.

The intensive use of inorganic nitrogen fertilizer may so overload a humus-depleted soil with nitrate as to cause it to leach into surface waters when nitrate levels may readily exceed public health standards. Leached nitrate also wastes expensive fertilizer synthesized from an increasingly diminished supply of natural gas. Apart from any other possible and yet to be established virtues, the use of organic fertilizer avoids these difficulties and holds the promise of restoring the natural source of soil fertility - humus.

Lisa, in your original post you said:

If someone could give me a brief step by step, just a "do this first, then this" I would greatly appreciate any suggestions :) I want to plant a "cottage garden" next but first things first.

You should take a shovel and just dig into your lawn, dig it down 6 or 8 inches deep so you can get some kind of idea what kind of soil you're dealing with. If it's really really poor like swflagrdnr thinks it is, just made up of fill dirt, a calcerous, sand mix with shells and little to no organic matter, then you should consider topdressing with compost, but no where in your post do you indicate that this is new contruction & I'm thinking if this had been an established lawn, perhaps it just hasn't been looked after in a while and a bit of TLC would go a long ways. When you dig it up, if you see some bugs, worms, you know, living stuff, then that's great! Let's get your microherd some water and some food & as I posted earlier, we just treat it like it's the best lawn in the neighborhood, then one day later this year you'll look out the window and say "I've got one of the best lawns in the neighborhood!"

Here's your list:

1) Identify your turfgrass.
2) Stop using chemical fertilizers
3) Begin using feed grains, right away. Then fertilize on a regular basis.
4) Depending on what's available you can use:

1. CGM (applied @ 20lbs per 1000sqft for use as pre-M or 10lbs per 1000sqft for use as fertilizer),

2. Soybean meal (applied at 15lbs per 1000sqft)

3. Alfalfa pellets (applied at 20lbs per 1000sqft)

5) Follow the lawn care basics I outlined above.

Good day, Dan

I'm humbled by okcdan's sage, wise and accurate advice.
Swedeone has been given excellent and wise counsel by okcdan and, if she wishes to do so, has been provided with an excellent template to go forward with an organic program.

However, I stand by the accuracy of my posts as well. 6-12 months from now, swedeone, please post back and let us know your results. If an organic program can create a silk puirse out of a pig's ear, that's great.
Good luck.

Welcome to our state! I lived in PSL while we built a church (Treasure Coast Baptist Church on Del Rio BLVD)and now reside in Indian River County just to the north of you.I will not attempt to jump on the lawn wars as my hubby and I have had our own.We ended up planting the backyard and pond area in Bahai for me and the front in St Aug for him.
St Lucie County has a large batch of Master Gardeners(I am jealous) and I am sure out of that bunch there are organic growers(ask specifically for one).
At the County Extension Office you can get your soil tested.Always the starting point. Also bring in a sample of your geass and pictures and they will surely help you. Ask for literature on Florida Friendly Yards and anything organic that they may have. Also ask for anything on Native plants and invasives and tell them you are new to the state.They often give classes or clinics on turfgrass, insects, ponds, etc. Ask when their next plant sale is, they have a great one. Maybe they will show you their garden. Visit Heathcote Botanical Gardens (St Lucie)and McKee Botanical Gardens in Vero.It will help you to learn plant names and how they grow.
Often the builder adds fill dirt since the requirement is to have your house 4ft.above street level. The fill dirt is lifeless sand and shells that belongs on a driveway.You must concentrate your efforts to amending the soil. Especially if you want your cottage style garden. When you go to the extension office ask for the 4-H- ers who have manure for Free/sale. Start it decomposing so in 6 months you can use it.
Also I swear by my can- o- worms for kitchen scraps.I keep it in the garage to keep them from cooking!
Contact the Florida Native Plant Society.They are big on lawnless yards.Now I am supposing you do not live in a development with By-Laws because if you do; well it's all over.
Now for that Florida Cottage Garden Start small and start when its cooler. Dig out some of that NASTY sand and add compost. My favorite is mushroom Compost! No sense in buying expensive plants and tucking em into that sandy stuff.Start with some flowering shrubs and add seeds like zinnias, cosmos& larkspur.
Salvia and daisies do well too.Milkweed and fennel for the caterpillars.
Here is a picture of my Florida Cottage garden.Check out my photos. Good Luck and I hope you gain many new gardening pals

My understanding is that St Augustine is native to coastal South Africa. It migrated north along the coast and was brought to this hemisphere on slave ships as bedding in the 1700s and 1800s. It is about as natural a grass for the sandy parts of Florida as you'll find. I've seen it growing wild in the sand dunes in Port Aransas, TX. It had escaped from a condominium and seemed happy growing as tall as my knees.

One thing that probably has been mentioned about St Aug is that it does require water to stay alive. Some southern grasses will go dormant in a drought. St Aug goes dead in a drought and will not revive. If that is what you have currently, it could be dormant from a combination of cool weather and lack of water, but it might also be dead. When you are considering grasses for a Florida yard, your likelihood of using an irrigation system should be a consideration. If you go away, for example, for the summer; then you should either have an automatic system or just forget about using St Aug.

Hello Everyone!

Thank you all SO much for the wonderful advice!

This is not a new house, if it is, then I just painted the entire outside and am painting the inside for nothing :)

The house was built in 1988, the grass has been cut in the past and the clippings left in the grass. There are several large trees, one is an oak, albeit not the kind of oaks I am used to but an oak. Also pine trees...ack, I have a gazillion pine needles to rake since the person renting didn't rake once in three years and the palm trees.

I will get the soil tested to see what it needs, I do believe this is St. Augustine grass and there has not been much rain since I got here two months ago. The said this evening on the news we should have 10 inches of raing by now, we have had 1.85.

I don't know if the grass is dead or dormant, I'll find out when I start adding the things it needs and see if it grows. A good thing, it rained one day last week and there is green grass coming up through the brown.

I didn't know Port St. Lucie had master gardners, that is fabulous! I will go to the places suggested and hopefully they can give me a few ideas as well.

My Mom has said it for years and I mean no disrepect to anyone but, I am a "stubborn Swede" and will at least try the organic first. In Ohio, I lived in a development that had an association where they did the landscaping. I did not let them put their chemicals in my yard (still had to pay the silly amount each month) and I never did put anything on my yard. My lawn didn't look much different than anyone elses that had all the chemicals, the one thing it did have was a ton of worms. Just curious, Goldenpond, when you mentioned a "can-o-worms"...did you mean a real can of worms? I know how beneficial they are, I hope my lawn has them as well.

This week, I will be in touch with the organizations Goldenpond mentioned here in Port St. Lucie and start planning what I have to get.

The outside of the house is painted, the inside is getting there, now I need to get cracking on the lawn and yard.

Oh, by the way, Goldenpond, your garden is beautiful!

Again, my sincere appreciation to everyone for their knowledge, insight and kindness. I apologize if for the debate that was due to my question. Everyone has their experiences, opinions based on those experiences and I respect all of them.

Thank you kindly,

Lisa

I think that you are correct about opinions and as organic gardeners. We have had to get a STRONGER personality to get our point across.Personally I think we need to not scare away potential OGs by doing such but that is something I learned in Bible College about religion also!
I frequent other posts such as Florida Gardening and when they ask for a cure for say black spot everyone tells the chemicals they use. I mentioned a spray of baking Soda and water and of course no one wants to hear it.
Don't give up. Gardening in Florida is definitely more difficult then Ohio(I am a PA transplant myself 20 yrs ago)It took me years to relearn gardening names and how tos!I use to get Blue Ribbons for my flowers up there! And you also have the organic thing to conquer.You can do it!
My Can O Worms is just that but it makes growing worms a cinch! They also show up at garden Festivals.Check the web for CanOWorms, Our Vital Earth, vermicomposting.
Also check the IFAS site and try to get the FLORIDA GARDENING magazine. You are not alone!Keep composting!

Hi All,

Just a question about leaving the clippings in the grass as mulch. How many of you have problems with fungus in your grass since you've been practicing this method? Here in NW Florida, before the droughts, we had a slew of folks who were practicing that method and needing a lawn fungicide (another chemical). I used to manage a gardening center (doesn't make me an expert) and learned what not to do with my yard. I rarely ever use chemicals on my lawn, I have beautiful St. Augustine grass growing, have nearly eliminated the dollar weed (lots and lots of pulling), and am now trying to rid my yard of coffee weed. I would love to know of anything organic that would help control those besides pulling them up and cutting them before they can reseed. They're very tough and woody.

I like the advice of Mr. Hall, it seems like good sound advice, especially the part about leaving the grass leaves taller.

Welcome to Florida, Lisa. Port St. Lucie is a really pretty place and I love driving through there whenever I get the chance. It seems more picturesque than my part of Florida.

Debbie...(O:
>

swedeone, you will get to like the east coast of Florida and you will grow a lawn to your liking and within your budget. Please let me know how.
I cannot call myself an organic gardener although I do consider myself to be a natural human resource. It has been a number of years since I went through what you must now be experiencing and here are what I have concluded. I must add that my first job was in the garden department of a hardware store and I learned very quickly and very well. I would recommend a similar approach since you are also into home stuff. My advice is always free....to take or not.
1. I have not been able to grow anything, even passably well, without irrigation. There was no sprinkler system so I bought a good quality (all metal construction) adjustable impact sprinkler, mounted it on a heavy base, a high quality 100 ft. hose and watered the lawn in 15 min. intervals, placing the sprinkler at the corners of the lawn in turn and setting the arc for 'quarter circle'. If you have access to reclaimed water, invest the capital to have the service; the cost of using it is small. I have never paid more than the modest monthly minimum charge.
2. I have never grown anything, even passably well, without using fertilizer. I care about the source. I would put 'Milorganite' on the lawn but nowhere else.
3. The front lawn is primarily bahia. It is the chief pasture grass in the state (I forget how many millions of acres). I mow (3" high) once a week year round, edge it each time and try to put back all the clippings on the grass. But I have got to tell you that the bahia is interspersed with common bermuda, nutsedge and matchweed (Lippia nodiflora in the weed or ground cover books, depending upon the author's point of view). I gave up on nutsedge after it made the Guinness Book of Records some years ago. I do no weed control on the lawn; I use glyphosate to get rid of unwanted vegetation in mulched areas and along the fence and places like that.
Gotta run now but I will be back if you think that this is useful.

I have bahia grass, I have never heard of it dying in 3-4 years? I do let it go to seed from time to time, so maybe if this is true that has been my answer. I personally prefer bahia over St.Augustine, it is much more drought tolerant. If you have patches of dead grass you might have a cinch bug problem, I don't know of any organic ways to rid them, but you can get something for them at garden centers. Also, putting down some top soil in these spots and regular watering will allow the St.Augustine to creep back in. When I was a kid we had St.Augustine in the front yard and never had an irrigation system, just ran the sprinkler when it would look thirsty. It did just fine. Good luck to you here in Florida, I grew up here and love everything about it and the wildlife!

I have a St. Augustine grass yard in Southeast FL. When I bought the house it was a mess, mainly sand and sand spurs with a little grass here and there.
It is now thick and beautiful.
Here's what I did. Although not organic, I used Lesco weed and feed for St. Augustine with Atrazine 3 times a year, and I laid it on fairly thick. I watered 3 times a week when it didn't rain. I mowed on the highest setting once a week and I pulled weeds up by hand to get the roots. In 2 seasons I had a beautiful yard. I live 10 blocks from the beach so my yard is mainly sand and it grew anyway. At least that's what worked for me.