Scott,

You know, $10 does seem pretty expensive for blackberries. I bet they're using higher transportation costs to justify the higher price tag and I think it may be a mistake--let's see how many they sell at that price!

Our local stores have had cool-season transplants for about a month and some tomato and herb transplants for about 10 days or so. The transplants do seem to be selling pretty well, although I think we have quite a few cold nights left.

My Burpee seed order has shipped, by the way, so we'll know in a few days if the BB seed origin is USA or foreign. My young broccoli and tomato seedlings are coming along nicely, but I've been keeping them on the dry side and have been restricting their light a little more than usual. After last year's late, late freezing weather here, I'm not in much of a hurry to push the limits by planting anything very early.

My "stupid" plum tree is blooming, but the smart one isn't. LOL

Dawn

Why are thornless blackberries hard to grow? Where can you buy those with thorns. that is one plant i want to get started this year, but my husband is busy clearing out that area from fallen trees, etc.

Jessaka,

Why do you think thornless blackberries are harder to grow? Have you tried them before?

I don't think that thornless blackberries are necessarily harder to grow, but many people do feel like they are less vigorous growers, which probably is true. Also, some people have found that thornless blackberries do not produce as many berries per plant as the best thorned ones do. The reason many thornless blackberries are less vigorous growers and produce less berries per plant probably lies in their breeding.

When plant breeders are breeding new varieties, they usually have a list of "traits" they're looking for. Obviously, in the breeding of thornless blackberries, they are looking for canes with little to no thorns. So, their focus is on thorns more than it is on plant vigor or plant productivity. So, while you may get thornless blackberries, you aren't necessarily getting the best-tasting or most vigorous growers because those are not the traits the grower was trying to achieve.

In a perfect world, breeders could give us thornless blackberries that have no thorns, produce huge crops of blackberries and produce blackberries with great flavor. We live in the real world though, so it is hard to find all those traits in one variety.

Thorned blackberries are easy to find in stores. They should be available right now at any store that sells berry plants. If you are looking for thorned berries, watch for Brazos, Shawnee, Choctaw, Cherokee (our favorite and the one many folks think produces the berries with the best flavor), or Shawnee. The two most commonly sold thornless blackberries are Arapaho and Navajo, and of those two, Arapaho has the best flavor and is a heavier producer. Doyle Thornless Blackberry is often sold in magazines and online and is said to be a very heavy producer, but be sure you read reviews from real home gardeners before you decide whether or not to purchase one.

Thornless blackberries are complicated because they are chimeras and that can make maintenance of them more of an issue. You really have to aggressive remove shoots/suckers that sprout from the base of thornless varieties because they often are thorned.

I'd rather grow thorned blackberries than thornless ones any day of the week because I want blackberries with the best flavor.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Blackberry Fact Sheet

Scot and Dawn - Are your berries growing in the ground or in a container. I would love to have a blueberry, but I think I would need it in a container. Any thoughts?

It may not be worth fighting the birds for, but I might try one and see. I can probably afford a $10 gamble. I can't buy a bag of bird food for that. LOL

Carol,

Our blackberries are in the ground and the ones in sandier loam have done well, but the ones I planted in heavier clay died in the super-heavy rainfalls of 2004 and 2007.

I don't grow blueberries, but if I did, I'd put them in containers because my soil pH runs from 6.8 to 7.2 where it is improved, and even higher where it is not, so it would be easier for me to grow them in containers where I could maintain an acidic soil pH a little more easily. I want to plant blueberries every time Scott talks about them, but then I think of our water pH, which runs 8.0 to 8.2, and I talk myself out of it.

We drove through Lone Grove the other day.....I'll post on that on a separate thread.

Dawn

I thought I remembered Scot saying he planted blueberries in containers, but I wasn't sure. I might try one.

My sister's phone was finally hooked up yesterday and I was able to talk to my BIL. Before I could tell him that I was going to come down, he was telling me that I should come down in the next couple of days just so I could see it all. I had planned to go today, but my sister has had the flu and I thought I would wait a day or two. I will look for your other post, then tell you what he told me.

Carol,

You do need to see it. It will knock your socks off. My other post is up now.

Dawn

The blackberries had a few good thornless ones, although I have not had much success with these.

The above sentence is what the original poster wrote, so i assumed there were problems with thornless

I am going to see if I can find the Cherokee kind. Every time I plant a bush it dies. I have a thornless in a pot right now and it seems to be making it through the winter. i will have to call a nursery.

I put a row of blackberries in two years ago. I don't give them much care. Little mulch and not much weeding.

The three thorned varieties still thrive. Two of the three are just excellent. Cherokee is one of them. The other is Ros.... something or Brazos, I think.

I have lost 2 out of 4 thornless ones. One produces OK but I do not like the taste very much. One produces some, but not much and I don't care for the taste. The problem is really that I don't give them very good care and the thornless ones need more attention. Plus, they don't have quite the taste of the others and since they don't produce as much, the pests get a large percentage of them. I only get one new cane each year from the thornless ones. The thorned ones are vigorous.

With blueberries, I think the ideal situation is to build a bed 3 ft across and 4ft long per plant and fill it with 1 ft deep of peat moss, then cover with 4 inches of pine mulch or pecan shells. Only fertilize with acidic fertilizer and make sure your irrigation water is not too alkaline. I don't think you can go wrong doing this. It is best if this bed sits on top of clayish soil.

Start with a couple each of Blueray, Bluecrop, Duke, or Elliott. I'd pick 2 of these kinds to start, but not get both Bluecrop and Blueray. I am not really an expert though.

I'm running over to Horn at lunch. They will have berries and I will let you know. I have 1 small thornless left after losing 4 others. Area was way too damp and my mulch floated away. Am planning to try the thorny ones.

Laura

Scott,

Your "Ros...." one probably is Rosbrough, which Texas A & M released in the late 1970s.

My blackberries don't get much attention either, but since I gave them lots of cow manure when they were planted, they don't seem to mind being otherwise neglected.

I like picking the native blackberries too. They are very small but tasty although I do have to be quick to get them before the wild things do.

Dawn

That's the one.

I was mistaken about Home Depot. They do not have the same blueberries the others so. Instead they have the Climax, Powder Blue, etc., types. They looked good though. Also, they are only $8.

My Lowes had blueberries for $5, but they only had blueray, bluecrop, and jersey. I remembered you said buy 2 plants, but only one of them the blue series. I went for the two best looking plants I could find in the boxes and I think I ended up with blueray and jersey. Now I hope I can make a container to their liking, as soon as we have some weather to my liking. Brrr

The ones you got must be the ones they keep inside the store that are 1 yr old. I am scared to put them out before April since they are already growing when I see them. My Lowes got the 1 gallon ones in last week that they keep outside. Those are still dormant and you can tell from the buds which ones will make a few berries this year. I like to get those since you gain an extra year.

Blueray and Bluecrop are pretty similar in terms of ripening, budding, etc. Duke is early and Elliot is late. I think Jersey is late also.

BRRR is right. I think that on Sat. we're going to have a high in the 40s and a low in the 20s or even the teens. Since we're expecting that kind of cold weather here in southern OK, I assume those of your farther north may get even colder.

I feel sorry for all the plants sitting out on those concrete slabs and plant racks at Lowe's, Home Depot and Wal-Mart because they are going to be really, really cold on Saturday night. I hope someone covers up the poor plants, or wheels the tender ones inside the store before nightfall.

Dawn

Yesterday it was very cold here. I went to Lowes during the morning hours and when I got close enough for the automatic doors to open, I could see a plant hanger right inside the door.....filled with ferns....got a gust of cold wind everytime the door opened. Decided I didn't want that one.

Scott - OK you're making me nervous. These were two year old plants, but they were inside the store. Guess I'll go drag them under the shed at least.

I went to the Skiatook Wal-Mart and they had almost nothing! I had to search for the seed rack and it wasn't very comprehensive if I wanted something other than beans or corn. There wasn't any cauliflower at all - not even a space for them!

I have a gig to start 200 each of broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower for my father's garden (and as many as I want for my own, but I think I'll save my limited space for peas, radishes and other cool season plants he isn't growing by the hundred). My mother and I will go to the Owasso Lowes tomorrow and see if their selection is better.

My new three Knock-Out roses are all planted, just in time for the cold weather! I have five gallon buckets for them, though.

Gamebird,

Home Depot has more seed selection than Lowes. HD has Ferry Morse and Burpee and Lowes is only Burpee. Some Wal-marts have more seed to select from then others I've noticed. Don't know why but I've checked at 3 or 4 and only 1 had very much at all and it still wasn't great. Atwoods has a pretty wide variety for in store seed racks too. Good Luck!

Jill

My daughter works at Lowe's in Tulsa, and they do bring the outdoor plants inside the vestibule at night, so they will be protected from freezing. Another source for seed or sets could be your local feed store, they normally carry varieties that do well in your area.

It seems like the seed selection in most Wal-Marts I've been in during the last month is very poor. I keep looking to see if they have, by chance, added "more" but none of the ones here have done so yet.

Our local Lowe's and Home Depot have only a so-so selection this year, and the local farm stores aren't much better. I buy most of my seeds online and start my own transplants because that is the only way to get the varieties I want to grow and which have proven to produce well here. I don't usually buy much seed from the "big name" seed companies but instead buy from smaller companies that tend to have a great selection of heirlooms, lower prices, and higher seed counts per packet.

Vegetable transplants are about the same way too--everybody from the big box stores to our local farm stores are carrying the same Bonnie Plant Farms transplants and there's not very much offered in the way of variety. Our local stores do not necessarily sell the best-adapted varieties for our region, at least not here in southern OK. Instead, many of them sell the same varieties you could find at many different places across the nation. It is getting harder and harder to find regionally-oriented transplants grown by local/regional growers.

Strawberries are a great example. In most stores (at least here in southern OK where we don't have many nurseries at all and must buy at big box stores or local farm stores), you'll often see Quinault or Sequioa, neither of which does well here, but you never see Cardinal or Sunrise, which are adapted to this area. The same thing is often true of fruit trees too and sometimes berry brambles as well.

One area in which I have seen a lot of improvement the last few years is that of seed potatoes and onions. The varieties offered are, for the most part, ones that do well here....except for the little bags of dried 'onion sets' which still tend to be northern varieties.

Dawn

I just went to Lowes in Shawnee. I bought only one Jersey blueberry. I also bought 3 pks of Asparagus bulbs. I know it will not make for 1-2 yrs so want to get that in the ground soon.

I have a niece that is a poultry buyer for Wal-mart and in conversation I ask if she knew anything about the lack of selection in the garden department this year. She said it is a change taking place storewide for the most part that is geared toward narrowing down what they carry. Part of the concept being they would save consumers time if they didn't have to try to figure out which product to buy -- it's easier to choose from 2 than 10. I told I dislike the idea and that if they don't carry the things I am looking for I will go elsewhere to buy them rather than settle for what they carry. But anyway that explains the poor seed selection -- I too have kept looking thinking maybe they'd get more in but I guess not.

Jill

Jill,

Well that just figures, doesn't it. I wonder if W-M has any clue how much business they are losing because of that marketing decision?

Of course, relatively new gardeners who don't have any idea what variety to plant will walk in and buy whatever the stores have, but experienced gardeners like us who prefer specific varieties for specific reasons are likely to take their business elsewhere. And, if I am not buying seeds at W-M, I'm not purchasing other garden supplies there. I'm going to reward the retailers who offer the best seed selection by spending the rest of my garden money there. I think that's only fair. We consumers really only have one way to "vote"....and that is by how/where we choose to spend our dollars.

Dawn