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Northern Gardening

Pagoda dogwoods or crabapple trees?

16 years ago

We are on three acres of land with woods on two sides and prairie on two sides. The back yard badly needs ornamental trees to shade some windows and to interrupt the blank two-story rear facade. This back yard lawn area gets full sun (southern exposure with woods about 60 feet from house) but also a lot of wind because it is next to the prairie.

One area will require three trees planted in a triangle. I have been looking at Red Splendor crabapple for those. It has persistent fruit so it won't mess up the lawn (plus we have lots of birds that will appreciate the winter food source), but the shape is more upright than I like. Would I be able to shape it into a wider form with judicious pruning? Can anyone suggest another flowering crab I could research that would be naturally more wide?

I was looking for a white-flowering crabapple for the other area in the back, but suddenly realized a pagoda dogwood might work. We have a lot of birds, so I'm thinking maybe they would eat the fruit before it could drop and make a mess on the lawn. Is fruit drop a problem with pagoda dogwood?

Any comments on specific crabapple or dogwood trees would be appreciated.

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Comments (4)

marricgardens
16 years ago
Hi. We have 3 Pagoda Dogwood. We bought a farm in the country and started planting trees and shrubs because there were none there (it used to be pastureland). That was 7 years ago. We planted 3 Pagoda Dogwood. Because the site is very windy, I think that is the reason they
are slow growing. I have never pruned mine because they keep a nice shape. They're worth the wait though. I love the fall color. The shrubs we bought that are doing the best are Amelanchier Canadensis/Serviceberry. Again it has beautiful fall color. You can also get the Serviceberry in treeform. We did plant some Crabapples but they didn't survive. Marg
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zuni
15 years ago
My pagoda dogwoods are lovely, but the foliage is not dense enough to provide shade. I think of it more as an understory tree.

There are a number of crabs available, and most can be pruned wider or taller as needed. I would definitely mix varieties rather than planting 3 of one type. Mine is called "Profusion" and the fruit is about the size of cranberries, so we never have a mess to clean up.
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I am in coastal New Hampshire, and have exactly the same problem. I have 2 pagoda dogwoods, 3 years old so still small, about 4 feet. The tree that is at a lower elevation where the soil is slightly more moist has terrible drooping leaves. The other tree has healthy appearing leaves but in the last few days many have developed small holes. We had no issues with deer or other animals, and had snow cover all winter. The spring weather conditions have been similar to CT. I will also try to post photos, but also new to this site and not sure yet how to do that. Thanks for the help.
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with hand shears and a pruning saw ... you can make anything into whatever your little heart desires ... its not an issue of the genetics of the plant. ... its a function of the retentive abilities of the owner ... go for it ... now.. that said.. two years in the ground.. is when you start THINKING about pruning ... think of all leaves.. as food making machines.. to grow the roots to get your new tree fully established ... and once established.. then we start messing with cutting off the food making machines ... trees.. can live decades.. they have a different time spectrum than annuals and perennials.. give it time.. to get its act together.. before you start trying to force it to do things ... clear??? ... or should i try again ??? ken
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To me that looks like a moisture issue of some kind. You might want to check with the folks on the container forum about your soil mix. Really organic soils will break down over time and get compacted and IME will need changing out periodically, so it may be a drainage issue. It likes the classic moist, but well-drained soil. Growing woody plants in a container takes quite a bit of maintenance that growing in the ground may not. This is a tree that grows wild here, and I have quite a number of them. It certainly is cold tolerant, and this far north is fine in full sun as long as it doesn't dry out, but naturally grows in some shade, often along woodland edges. I don't think it's a plant I would have chosen for a roof garden with the extra wind and heat off the roof, but I've never grown this tree in a container, so I don't know that it's an issue.
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jroot
15 years ago
I find that the dogwood I have are beautiful. However, they don't take a lot of full sun. They are great in partilally sunny areas though. We have many different types of dogwood behind our place,- no idea what type though as they are considerably older. We find the birds come in and pick off the fruit in a day or so. They miss some, but there are new trees popping up all throughout the bush behind us, thanks to the missed ones, and the "fertilized" ones which the birds spread.

I find that the crabapples are beautiful this time of year. If they produce fruit, they are a dirty tree with a lot of dropping fruit, and then a lot of bees. There are fruitless crabs though which would alleviate the bee problem. Crabs are really liked, however, by the tentworm caterpillar, so one has to be prepared for that.
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Bogart
15 years ago
I think the pagoda is one of the most beautiful trees around (when it's planted as a tree, though, not those bushy multi-stemmed things I've seen at nurseries)but it is, indeed, an under story tree. In the city, mine grow on the east side of the house, getting afternoon shade from both the house and tall trees to the south.

The tiered affect of the branches are incredible.

The flowers in spring are beautiful, and the trees have grown extremely fast - two to three feet a year -- in moist soil in that protected area.

The only problem I have is with squirrels. In my city they are more than bountiful, and they like to feast on both the seeds as they ripen, and the flower buds before they break in early spring. This has resulted in MANY broken branches and chewed off tips. They seem to even like either the bark or the sap under the bark - I've seen them gnaw on a branch.

In my country garden this isn't a problem, but the trees grow much slower because of the dryer conditions.
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