Before I started too many plants for the germination bench to handle at one time, I used to just plant 2 seeds in each cell of a 6 pack and clip one off after they were up good. Now I still put two seeds--sometimes three--in each cell, to save space on the bench, but now transplant one or two when true leaves emerge. I think part of the thinking is that transplanting makes the seedlings stronger, but I think the most important thing is hardening off, which on my porch starts as soon as the seedlings come off the warm bench to the cool table and shelf. I do tuck more soilless mix around the plant that remains in the cell, so it gets a bit of a shock (when the excess plants are pricked out with part of the soil) and has to regrow roots.

I don't think you have to start plants all together in flats and then pot up. It's just one system.

The main reason I start several together or use trays with very small cells is I have limited space where I germinate seeds. I have more space under my lights so I transplant up after I move under the lights. This allows me to start more at once without increasing the space I germinate seeds in. Jay

My neighbor had a small greenhouse bussiness a few years ago. He and his wife both had full time jobs plus chicken houses and cattle. His mother and older relatives did most of the greenhouse work.

I went over there one day to buy some plants and mother and aunt were potting up out of the flats that must have hundreds of plantes in them. They would grab a hand full of in their left hand and shove the plant into the potting soil with a popsicle stick with a "V" cut into the end with their right hand. They could plant a flat of plants fasted than I could plant one plant.If I had tried that I would have torn half of my tomatoes in to.

Leava, I remember those old wooden flats and wish we still had them, although a lot of them at once if filled with plants would be too heavy for most tables or light shelves nowadays.
I think mostly it is an economic reason, but also it is because it is hard to keep shallow flats too wet, so that ensures success for "newbies" since many water seedlings much too heavily, contributing to damping off issues and loss of their seedlings.

As for the economic reason, if you start seedlings in a 72-cell flat putting numerous seeds in each cell, you can start 72 different varieties in one flat, which limits the amount you spend on flats and on expensive sterile, soil-less seed-starting mix.

I start 72 varieties in one flat and then pot up the individual seedlings into containers once the seedlings have two two leaves. When I pot up, I pot up into Miracle Grow Potting Soil which is a lot less expensive than soilless, sterile seed-starting mix. Obviously, once they're potted up they take up tons and tons more space than the one starter flat occupied, so I am using a lot more lights on the light shelf to maintain them indoors at that time.

I move my tomato plants out to the sunporch once they're potted up so they can get the cold treatment they need to grow and produce well later on, but also just to get them off the shelf and outside so I can start other seedlings inside. Other types of seedlings, like peppers, stay indoors a lot longer on the light shelf since being too cold too early in their life adversely affects later production.

With seeds started in sterile, soil-less mix in a shallow flat, you would have to really, really, really overwater to keep them wet enough for damping off to become an issue. Larger, deeper containers like 4" pots would hold a lot more water and increase the risk of the soil-less mix staying too wet and making damping off more likely. So, for someone new to starting from seed, the flats usually give better success since they tend to dry out quickly enough to help prevent damping off.

Some plants, like tomatoes, develop better root systems when repotted while others, like peppers, don't seem to.

So, do whatever works for you and what makes you happy.

When I was less experienced at starting with seeds, I treated my seedlings very kindly and only sowed 1 or 2 seeds per cell and tried really hard to not to disturb their roots. Then I discovered that seedlings are often tougher than we think, so now I sow up to 20 tomato seeds in one cell and pot up from there and rarely lose a single seedling.

I start so many plants from seed (almost everything I grow) that I need every inch of space I have on the light shelf, and it is a nice-sized unit with five shelves.

If I worked a job outside the home, I'd likely find it very hard to raise as many ssedlings as I do now because I just wouldn't have enough hours in a day to pot them up at the right time while also working 40 or more hours away from home each week.

Dawn

Dawn, by planting up to 20 seeds in a cell, don't you run the risk of damaging the roots when transplanting? I am especially careful with tomato seeds, and I know I would break off roots, tops, whatever, with my clumsy fingers. That's why I only plant 2 to 3 seeds per cell, and cut the 1 or 2 extra, if they germinate, off as MulberryKnob suggests. I use all kinds of containers for seed starting. The flats do dry out faster, but you can bottom water them, which to me is better than top watering wherein lies the potential for damping off.

When I have lots of tiny seeds of various things, I have used the "hunk o' seeds" transplanting method, especially with small seeds like Alyssum and many others, which seems similar to what Dawn is suggesting. Rather than explain it myself, I'm attaching a link for you with instructions on that method.

Where is Seedmama? We need our seed starting expert to chime in here.

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: Hunk o' Seeds

I read in a tomato book that the transplanting actually helps develop a better root system and that when you transplant bury the seedlings up to the seed leaves. The hunk o seeds works for poppies which hate transplanting. Some plants grow stronger with a little abuse.

The following is a youtube video I found on another forum on re-potting tomatoes. As you can seed tomato plants are a little bit tougher than you might think. Paul re-pots a half dozen or more growing from a single pot.

Click here

Keith

I have a question related to seed starting so figured I'd toss it in here rather than start a new thread.

I mentioned before that I'm going to try presprouting my seeds this year to save my sanity with the new set-up. I've always started my seeds in soilless starting mix (other than just a little playing with presprouting), then potted up to potting soil. If I take care of the germination in paper towels/coffee filters/whathaveyou, can I then skip the soilless mix and just plop the sprouts in potting soil? This is assuming, of course, that it's not terribly chunky mix. I understand the reason for soilless mix as far as making it easier for the sprouts to push their way through. But what about reasons? It just occurred to me today that I'm not completely aware of ALL of the reasons for the soilless starting mix. I do realize "sterile" is one part of it, though -- would the sprouts be far enough for that to no longer be a worry?

Diane

I agree with all the comments above about efficiency, and feel it's a matter of determining how a particular person defines "efficient". Some have more time, some have more space, etc. I have a counter in the kitchen that is the perfect temperature for sprouting seeds without a heat source, but the space is limited for sprouting in flats or cups. Last year, for the first time, I sprouted in coffee filters inside baggies and was very pleased with the results. Here are my perceived advantages.
1. More seeds of a given variety sprouted at the same time which I'll call more even germination.
2. I didn't have counter space tied up with a flat or pot wondering if I should give it a few more days. The baggies of coffee filters were piled into plastic tubs on the same said counter, and took up less space.
3. I found it easier to keep baggies evenly moist than I did to keep cells or pots evenly moist, which probably contributed to more even germination.
4. I found it faster for me to pot up a single sprout off the filter than to separate multiple sprouts. It was also easier for me to decide to give a sprout one more day to get further along than it was when I had them in potting mix. When taking a sprout out of soil, I worried about disturbing unsprouted seed.
5. I used less seed. Because I could see the sprouts, and because I got more even germination, I didn't feel the need for twosies and threesies in cells or pots. Generally, I just upped my count by about 10%. If I wanted 20 sprouts, I included 22 seeds, which was much less wasteful. I'm sure I lived a prior life during the Great Depression.
6. My life involves serious doses of kiddus interuptus. I was better able to keep track of where I was with the coffee filters. In addition to the full plastic tubs, I started each day with an empty one. As I checked each baggie daily for sprouts and moisture, I moved it to the empty bin. When finished, I had a new empty bin and carried on.

Diane, I've never used proper soilless mix, but I'm in no way against it. I use ProMix for everything. Back when I actually sprouted in ProMix, I treated it with boiling water first. But when I pot up, I just moisten chunks of ProMix in a dishpan and get down to business. Knock on wood I've not had disease or damping off issues.

I have used hunk-o-seedlings on winter sown ornamentals quite successfully. However, I am too frugal to use it on precious seeds like tomatoes and peppers.

A few years ago, we were at my husband's (step) grandmother's house. She asked me if I had planted hot peppers. I told her that I had a few. She said I will never use all of these I have in a pot and don't eat them anyway. She walked outside with me following, grasped her hand around a group of a dozen or saw and pulled them out of the pot. I gasped! I was sure nothing would survive that. She wrapped them in a wet paper towel, and gave them to me. Everyone of them grew fine in my garden.

Susan,

As others have noted, you do not hurt the roots when you separate tiny tomato seedlings to plant. Studies show it makes them grow stronger and my experiences support that. Remember, too, that very young seedlings do not yet have big huge root systems either.

When I plant tiny seeds like chamomile or begonias or petunias, I sometimes put 100 seeds or more in one cell in a flat and handle them the same way. All my plants get subjected to rather "rough and tough" handling. I want them to be strong, tough, sturdy survivors, not pampered little whining wimps. It is a philosophy that has served me well over the years.

I've used the hunk of seedlings method for as long as I can remember, and certainly long before it was given such a catchy name. That's how many of my relatives and neighbors planted things when I was a child. I think in some ways nowadays, we treat our gardens too kindly....too much soil improvement, too much water, and too much gentle handling. Extremely pampered plants seem to have more trouble dealing with adversity when Mother Nature and the weather are being unkind, so I don't pamper anything.

Diane, When I pre-sprout, I just plant directly into tiny paper cups of potting soil most of the time and skip the flats/soil-less mix step. It can depend on the weather and the timing though.

If I am starting seeds kind of early and the cold weather is serious and is hanging on and on and on like it did last year, I might sow them into potting soil in flats. I don't want them to get too big too fast because then I'm carrying out oodles of trays of cups every day as they get bigger and bigger. Keeping them in flats for a while instead of cups restricts their growth and size a little.

On the other hand, if it is a relatively warm and droughty year and I am busy with fire dept. stuff, it is hard for me to find the time to pot up. During those years, I often plop the pre-sprouted seeds directly into the garden ground because it is quick and easy when I am strapped for time. The degree of success with that will vary depending on how many cutworms, sowbugs, pillbugs, etc. you have crawling around eating everything that sprouts. Since I started using Slug-Go Plus for pillbugs/sowbugs, I rarely have a problem with them or with cutworms any more. It also matters that the cats are in the garden daily and keep field mice, moles and baby rabbits out of the garden. Otherwise a lot of the pre-sprouted seeds get eaten the many they're up above the soil line. I plant oodles of catnip all over the garden, so the cats are always in the garden.

On the first year in new ground, you won't know initially what kind of soil-dwelling pests you'll have or how much they'll go after your seedlings or pre-sprouted seeds sown directly into the ground. You also won't know what kind of varmint issues you'll time, so I'd have plenty of extra seedlings or pre-sprouted seeds on hand just in case. Our first year here, I had a lot of trouble with every pest in the world....bugs, rodents, birds, etc. It was a drought and everyone was hungry for anything green. The second year was still a drought, but not as severe, and I was more proactive about protecting young seedlings in the ground too.

I think the main advantage to soil-less mix is its sterility. However, it also is very lightweight so even teeny, tiny seeds can sprout and push their way up out of the mix. If I were starting teeny-tiny seeds like poppies or begonias in a flat, I'd either use a lightweight soil-less mix, or surface sow them and not cover them up if using a good quality potting soil. (With some seeds that need light to germinate, you do that anyway.) With larger seeds like corn or beans, I don't think soil-less mix is necessary because those big seeds can push their way up through most anything as long as you don't have big chunks of anything in your potting soil.

Carol, As Dorothy has mentioned before, we used to be able to buy all kinds of field-grown seedlings that were grown, pulled up (not dug up), bundled (and for most, I think it was bundles of 25) and sold. You'd carry them home from the feed store wrapped in a sheet of newspaper. We'd always plant them into the ground right away, and even though they looked wilty for a day or two, they bounced right back and took off growing. I think plant roots tolerate some disruption much better than we think.

Even now, sometimes we leave ornamental or OP peppers and some herb flower seedheads on the plants as frost approaches and let the dry peppers or herb seedheads fall to the ground and reseed. In the spring, we'll have dozen of seedlings sprouting in a tiny area. I just take a trowel and lift up a portion of soil containing seedlings and carry it around the garden with me. I'll reach into that "hunk of seedlings" in the trowel and pluck out a couple of seedlings (holding them by the tiny leaves so I don't break the stems) and stick them in the ground. Using that method, you can transplant a hundred or more chamomile, basil, pepper, etc. seedlings in a very short while. Almost 100% of them sprout and grow. However, I do plant 2 or 3 together in one spot so if one fails, the others likely will grow and fill up that area.

Nothing is more fun for me that finding a garden pathway full of tiny seedlings I can dig and move. Heaven help the misguided cat who decides to scratch up a tiny patch of seedlings in the pathway. I'll chase that cat out of the garden to protect my seedlings until I can dig them and move them.

I noticed today, now that the snow/ice have finally melted, that I have larkspur coming up all over the flower border around the veggie garden and even in the grass outside the garden fence and in the driveway. Woo hoo! We're going to have a good stand of larkspur this year, and I didn't have to plant a one of them. They are one of my favorite reseeders, along with the poppies and the omnipresent pink evening primrose. I suspect if we ever land a spacecraft on Mars, the first thing the space travelers will find is pink evening primrose growing merrily all over the place.

Dawn

Thanks, seedmama and Dawn. I only have a small (by my oversized standards) amount of seed starting mix ingredients left and was hoping to not have to buy more this year. Potting soil is so much cheaper, I may end up REALLY liking this pre-sprouting thing if it saves me money.

Diane

Diane, I think you can use mixes like Miracle Grow for starting seeds if that is what you mean. I wouldn't use anything with real soil. Jiffy Mix is expensive and I have often used just "potting soil" which is not soil at all. It is peat and wood products with a little sprinkle of perlite and some fertilizer. That really cheap heavy stuff with actual soil is not good in my opinion.

Carol told me about ProMix seed starting media and its source in OKC area. I bought four units of Premier ProMix BX in the 2.8 cuft bags, for $9.50 per bag from EstesInc in OKC. When I reached their shop after my work, it was all ready closed. But Jeff Campbell and his colleagues were very generous to open closed store doors after their regular hours (8am-5pm) to haul me few bags. -Chandra

Dawn's suggestion on starting seedlings in a 72-cell flat putting numerous seeds in each cell then redistributing them to small pots sounds good.

I just browsed amazon for 72-cell flat, there are many choices...
1. "Burpee 72-Cell Plant 5 Trays - Seed Starting for $7.92";
2. "Rockwool Starter Plugs - 1.5 Inch Square - Sheet of 98 Starter Cubes - Rockwool / Stonewool for $8.65";
3. "Burpee 72-Cell Greenhouse Kit - Seed Starting for $14.99";
4. "Burpee Ultimate Seed Starting System for $24.99"
5. "Professional Greenhouse Kit for $9.10";

But I am not sure which one could be good choice? Does these flats lost for couple of seasons or only holds good for one time? Do you think its better to looks for good quality think plastic flat may lost longer...

Some flats comes with small expendable button like plugs, Peat Pellets (see no. 5 above). Are they good for germinating numerous seeds in one plug? It looks like they have only small hole in the center for 1-2 seeds?

I appreciate your recommendations on ;
1. Number of cell in each tray (32, 72, 98?);
2. Quality interns of sturdiness or think plastic so that it lost longer ;
3. What kind of media is best- Peat Pellets or Soil less sterile media (ProMix or Jiffy Mix) or normal compost and garden soil mix or wet paper germination;
4. Germination heating mats;
5. Homemade light rack or ready made rack "4 Tier Indoor / Outdoor Juliana Plant Growing Rack"

Thank you -Chandra

thanx for all the helpful input,letting it percolate

Chandra,

I am pleased that Jeff was able to provide you with such a favorable experience, and not at all surprised. I will call him on Monday to thank him.

I want to encourage everyone here who goes to Estes to purchase ProMix to be sure to ask for Jeff, then mention the Oklahoma Gardening Forum. Alternately, you may mention me by name or refer to me as that blonde who comes in here with two cute boys and can never remember her account number. Here's why. At the point in time when I first sent Carol there, they were giving serious thought to discontinuing ProMix from their product line. I was terrified.

Although my family had done business with Estes for many years, I had always purchased my ProMix from Home Depot. I was unaware that Estes carried it. I loved ProMix. It was cheap, convenient to purchase at Home Depot, and it suited all my purposes, from seed starting to container growing. Then Home Depot discontinued it. I initiated a grass roots campaign of complaints to Home Depot and spoke to many people in Atlanta. The bottom line was Home Depot analysts felt although it was a best seller, they would not be able to pass along the increased transportation costs associated with $4.00 per gallon gasoline.

That took me to the Premiere website to locate another retailer. The website store locator was extremely out of date, and not a single listing was accurate. Of the three I recall, Westlake Ace Hardware was no longer located next to Target on Midwest Blvd., and no longer carried it. Both Koelsch and Payless Cashways had long since gone out of business. I made repeated phone calls to Premiere, both in Canada and Pennsylvania. For several days I was only able to reach people who had the same outdated store locator information located on the website. Finally, I reached someone who gave me the cell phone of the sales rep covering the state of Oklahoma. He was able to provide me with the name of only three companies who still carried it in the OKC metro area, and one of them was Estes. The other two catered to the nursery trade, and their pricing structure, when I inquired, clearly indicated they did not want to do business with someone who only purcased 10-20 4 cubic foot bales a year.

The Estes price was more than I had been accustomed to paying at Home Depot, in part because it was not the all purpose version in the orange bale, but rather the BX version in the green and white bale. The BX version includes mycorrhizal fungi. The other part of the price is reflected in what Chandra experienced...GREAT SERVICE. In the scope of things it is a very fair price for a great product, and the fact Estes still carries it is (almost) priceless to me.

If we want to continue to have it available, and at a fair price, it is important for us to speak out as a group. Our collective voice is much louder than a collection of individual customers. So, please, if you purchase ProMix from Estes, ask for Jeff, let him know who you are, and tell him how you found out about it.

Your devoted ProMix activist,
Seedmama

I have used the peat pellets before and they can work. They are fun for children. I have used them with school children each having a little labeled cup on the window sill. But I have read on the forums that many people don't like them because they can be too wet or dry out and shed water. You are supposed to just plant them but I loosen the net because I have pulled up flowers at the end of the season with a ball of roots in the netting.

Chandra,

SEED-STARTING SUPPLIES: I usually buy my seed-starting supplies from companies that supply commercial growers and serious hobbyists because you can buy from them in larger quantities and get really good prices. I've linked one of my favorite suppliers below.

PRODUCT QUALITY: Most of the 10" x 20" starter flats, cell inserts and germination domes are of similar quality. You can go out of your way to purchase some very expensive ones of higher quality, but I don't know that they would last that much longer in terms of years of use.

HOW LONG THEY LAST: The flats I use normally last me about 5 years, but I try to restrict their use to indoors, or perhaps on the sunporch or covered patio where they are not exposed to the sun's UV rays all day long.

Once seedlings are large enough to be potted up into individual paper cups, plastic Solo cups or plastic pots, I put those individual containers in large, aluminum, disposable steamtable pans I buy in quantity in the kitchen supply area at CostCo or Sam's Club. Sometimes, for larger Solo cups that hold tomato plants, I buy the really heavy-duty, disposable, aluminum lasagna pans sold at Wal-Mart. They hold up very well to being left outdoors for weeks. Those disposable aluminum pans last me for several years.

CELL INSERTS: Because I pot up all my seedlings into individual plastic pots, paper cups or plastic Solo cups as soon as they have a couple of true leaves, I only use 72-cell inserts. If I were growing larger-seeded plants in cell inserts for several weeks, I'd probably use inserts that have larger but fewer cells.

STARTING INDOORS VS. DIRECT-SEEDING: If I am starting larger seeds, like beans or corn or melon seeds, I only put one ot two into each cell. Those larger plants go into paper cups with the bottoms cut out of them almost as soon as they sprout. Then, they very shortly go into the ground, cup and all (which is why I cut the bottoms off the cups before planting into them). Because my red clay hard-as-a-brick soil requires massive amounts of improvement to make it suitable for vegetable production, I start seeds indoors and transplant into the raised beds with almost everything I grow. That way, every square foot of improved soil has the maximum number of plants allowed per square foot and there are no "holes" or "gaps" in my raised bed plantings. If I had better soil, I'd direct sow all the big-seeded plants, but I don't, so this is the method that works best for me.

PEAT PELLETS: Peat pellets can be hard to use when you are new to seed starting. They hold a lot of moisture and many folks new to indoor seed-starting keep them too wet and the seeds either don't germinate, or they germinate and then the seedlings die of damping-off soon thereafter. The most common issue with folks new to starting seedlings indoors tends to be that they "love their seedlings to death" by constantly watering (really, overwatering) and keeping the seeds and seedlings too wet. It is easier to keep them too wet with peat pellets than with the more well-draining Jiffy Mix, ProMix and other seed-starting medium.

Once you are more experienced at using peat pellets and know to never keep them wet but merely moist, they are a cinch to use. When I use compressed peat pellets, I use the proper amount of water to "plump them up" and then hold them uncovered for 3 to 7 days to mostly let them dry out again. Then, I plant the seeds in them and moisten as needed. To plant directly into peat pellets that have just been "plumped up" and which are very wet is asking for trouble.

SEEDING INTO PEAT PELLETS: You can put all the seeds you want into a single peat pellet. When I use them, I order them online by the hundreds or thousands and I order the ones with no netting. Even with the netting though, you can pull the netting open at the top, use your finger to slightly loosen up the moistened peat inside and plant as many seeds as you want in each pellet. I haven't used peat pellets much, if at all, for the last 3 or 4 years.

STERILE, SOIL-LESS MIX: I prefer using sterile, soil-less mixes for seed-starting always, always, always. The main advantage is their sterility, something compost or garden soil does not give you unless you pasteurize it in the oven. However, by paseurizing your compost in the oven to kill bad microbes, you also kill off the good microbes in the compost, so I choose not to pasteurize my compost and use it to improve the garden soil where the plants ultimately will grow.

GARDEN SOIL: I never, ever use garden soil for seed starting because it can be full of weed seeds or disease pathogens. In addition, every time it is watered, it packs down and compacts a little, making root growth more difficult and interfering with proper drainage. For those reasons, it also is not recommended that you put garden soil into containers. With home-made compost, the quality is highly variable, depending on what you made it from, whether it was hot composted or cold composted, whether it is 100% composted prior to use, etc. With commercially-purchased compost, there is a risk of chemical contamination unless it is certified 100% organic, and I don't know if I'd even trust that because of compost contamination issues we've seen in recent years.

So for me, it is always sterile, soil-less mixes or peat pellets. I tend to use the peat pellets only in years when we have a bad winter wildfire season (which tends to coincide with seed-staring time) because during those times I am strapped for time and peat pellets are quick and easy to use.

GERMINATION MATS: These are nice to have, but are not really necessary. You will get germination a few days faster in most cases, but you can germinate seeds just fine without them. I like to use them to supply bottom heat for peppers and eggplants being grown from seed and for a few flowers that germinate better with bottom heat. I bought a small germination heat mat years ago for about $27.00 and have used it ever since. It holds one 1020 flat. After a flat's seedlings sprout, I immediately remove that flat from the germination mat.

HOME-MADE LIGHT SHELF VS. PURCHASED "GREENHOUSE" SHELF: Obviously I think that a home-made light shelf is the best answer for me. I am on my third one. The first one had 2 or 3 smallish shelves (each held one flat), the second one had three medium sized shelves (each one held one flat and one half-flat) and the one I use now has 5 shelves, each of which holds 3 or 4 flats depending on how they're arranged.

The kind of shelf you linked, when seen in person in a store, doesn't seem very sturdy to me. I think if I had one outdoors on the patio, the wind would easily blow it over, likely destroying the seedlings in the process. The plastic covering that surrounds it will offer seedlings some protection from wind and birds or rabbits if zipped shut, but if zipped shut you may have fungal issues arise from a lack of airflow. The plastic covering is not thick or heavy-duty enough to keep it warmer than the surrounding air outside, so you couldn't leave plants outdoors in it during cold weather. This greenhouse-style shelf also lacks lights. You'd need to add a light to the bottom of each shelf to light up the seed flats on the shelf beneath it, and we have no way of knowing if the fluorescent lights inside the plastic would generate/hold in too much heat, resulting in inapproriately fast seedling growth. (You want seedlings grown indoors under lights to grow in cooler conditions so they'll be shorter and stockier, not tall and leggy which can result from high heat indoors.) It is very hard to raise good, healthy seedlings that are not leggy without the use of lights. Natural lighting can be too skimpy and sparse on cloudy days and can be too hot and intense inside a plastic, unvented greenhouse-style shelf on sunny days.

The only real advantage I see to a shelf like the one enclosed in clear plastic is that, if used indoors with proper lighting, it could keep small children and small pets from bothering the seedling flats. I'm not sure it would be worth the trade-off though, because by leaving it zipped shut, you up the odds that you'll have disease issues due to lack of air flow. Also, good air flow makes seedlings stronger and more able to withstand outdoor conditions. I keep one or two fans on in the room where I raise seedlings, and I leave them on from 12 to 24 hours a day. The ceiling fan is on all the time, and the oscillating table fan is usually on during the daylight hours. Good air flow not only gives you stronger seedlings, but also helps mitigate heat buildup from the lights or from sunshine coming in southward and westward facing windows. Good air flow is also essential for preventing diseases that can kill seedlings.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Starting Supplies At FarmTek

Helen, I was actually asking about what to plant in after pre-sprouting. I've raised lots of plants from seeds but have never seriously attempted presprouting the majority of my seeds. And I've never used that cheap, bagged "garden soil" crap. I can dig up that sort of stuff for free myself. LOL

Chandra, peat pots are evil. Pure evil. Some folks do have luck with them but not many.

Seedmama, thanks for the spurring. I finally got off of my butt and emailed to find a local supplier. I never did find it in the old place but I have high hopes of finding it now that we're near civilization.

I meant peat pellets in my response to Chandra up there, not pots.

Diane

All my plants get subjected to rather "rough and tough" handling. I want them to be strong, tough, sturdy survivors, not pampered little whining wimps.

Good One Dawn!

Keith

Keith,

lol Well, it is the truth. Plants that are kept inside in perfect lighting, perfect temperatures and will very little wind movement just don't harden off as easily or grow as well once transplanted. I learned this one the hard way.

I'm a big meanie. Once the plants are in the ground, they are not lavished with lots of fertilizer or water either. I have found that lots of water and too much fertility gives me big, lush green plants that are slower to flower and slower to set fruit. Why get in a hurry when the living is easy? On the other hand, if kept ever-so-slightly dry and ever-so-slightly hungry, they feel a biological imperative to set seed to perpetuate their species in the event of their death. Since that seed comes in the form of tomatoes, they produce better.

I call it the Tough-Love Method of raising plants.

In 2005 and 2006 when we were in Exceptional Drought (the absolute worst kind), I stopped watering my garden completely in June. There was no point. Our ground had cracks 2" to 3" wide and you couldn't affordably put enough water into the garden to make a difference. Did my entire garden die in the almost total lack of rainfall and total lack of irrigation? No. All of the Livingston tomatoes continued to produce until fall. They must have sent their roots way down to find water, and of course they undoubtedly had fewer fruit and smaller fruit than they'd have in a good year, but I was amazed they lived and produced at all. Eggplants and some peppers also proved remarkably tough, also producing almost until frost.

My dad and his family dryland farmed when he was a kid during the pre-Depression and Depression years, and when both their parents died, the 11 kids stayed on the farm and dryland farmed enough food to keep themselves alive. (Orphanages were full due to the depression, or they undoubtedly would not have been allowed to stay on the farm, and the oldest brother and sister were in their late teens and took on parental roles.) Still, my Dad told me he would never recommend someone voluntarily dryland farm. Of course, since I watered through some point in June, it wasn't true dryland farming, but considering the heat and drought, I was amazed anything stayed alive and producing at all. Part of my tough-love approaching to gardening resulted from those horrible drought years in the mid-2000s.

However, because I hate leaving our vegetable-eating fate entirely in the hands of the climate/weather, it was after those two drought years that I got more serious about raising some veggies in containers. Since it is easier to keep them watered in containers, I know that if all else fails in a bad drought year, we'll still have some veggies from the containers.

When severe to extreme drought returned to our county in 2008 through part of 2009, I was much better equipped to deal with it, having developed such coping mechanisms during the two earlier droughts (2003 and 2005-06).

Lately we've had higher rainfall than usual, so that's been nice, but it won't last.

Dawn

Dawn, thank you very much for answering all queries and also providing appropriate solution. Now its very clear to me (I hope!) on how to produce seedling my own. I bought plastic 5-Shelf Storage Organizer a week ago from Home Depot, same one you recommended some time ago. Then I found GREENHOUSE SHELF while googling for Lights and fixtures, that seems to be cheaper than building myself. You post cleared about their drawbacks. My assumption was that clear plastic cover will help to retain moisture and aid in germination, but I not thought about air circulation. All your points make sense to build my self. I guess my HOME-MADE LIGHT SHELF will be ready in couple of days.

Do you think it would be good idea to start some cool season crops (Lettuce, Spinach, Radish)indoor using HOME-MADE LIGHT SHELF? so that I can harvest some salad greens much before the season starts!!!

I have ProMix, different kind of plastic pots (round, squire, 0.2-2 gallons), Miracle grow potting mix, grow lights. Our home's room temperature is always set at at 75F. I saw few types of lettuce and some spinach seeds in walmart/homedepot last weekend. With all these essential stuff, can i able to produce fresh salads indoor? I can't wait to start my garden... Chandra

Chandra,

You're welcome. I'm glad the info helped.

I think you could grow lettuce and other salad ingredients indoors under lights but I've never tried it myself.

If you decide to do it, I hope you'll keep us posted on how it goes.

Dawn

Building HOME-MADE LIGHT SHELF:

I was browsing few posts regarding Normal, LED, CFL, light fixtures, some say LED is best other prefers FL. I don't know which light plant prefers?

Yesterday I went to home depot to buy shop light fixtures and tube lights. I did not find 3 feet fixtures with proper reflector. 5-shelve plastic rack measure 72x36x18 inches. Most of fixture were 4feet long but plastic shelve is 3 feet wide.

Could you please give little hints about the light fixtures, type of light, fastener/hooks/chain you have used to build your home made light system. Or just one pic of your home made light stand give me an idea. Thank you -Chandra

Dawn,
I have just finished reading what I think are some of your best writings. You covered so many topics in this seed starting episode, that I can't pick out which to comment on.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Bill

Chandra, I have started lettuce and spinach in shallow flats on my glassed porch in fall and picked salads for 3-4 months. It was an interesting experiment. However, I don't think they would do as well in your even temps. My porch is heated to no more than 45 at night when it is really cold and gets warmer during the day. In other words the temp fluctuation is more like outdoor spring/fall temps. If you have a bedroom that you can keep cooler, it might work, but lettuce and spinach are both cool season plants. In fact last year spinach survived in the open garden through 2 zero nights and came back to bear enough to eat in March and April before bolting to seed. This year the deer took the spinach out in the open and a mouse wiped it out in the cold frame.

Chandra, I answered your similar questions in the emails you sent, so won't repeat the answers here again. Hope the info help.

Bill, Hi! It is so good to see you here on the forum. I miss you when you're too busy to be online posting. Thank you for your very kind words.

Even though I've gardened since I was a child, I really didn't begin starting seeds indoors until probably the mid- to late 1990s.

I was spoiled when I was a child. We had a large Greek family of market growers who raised crops right on the banks of the Trinity River on the edge of downtown Fort Worth. Not only did they sell their wonderful fresh veggies in a little farmstand store, but also sold seedlings of all kinds. It was just so simple to go into their store and buy everything you needed and then take it home and plant it. That's what my dad did except he did direct-seed his corn. So, one thing I didn't learn growing up was how to start seedlings indoors. I've been trying to make up for it ever since by growing oodles and oodles.

The first two years I started seeds indoors, I definitely overwatered and created my own issues with damping off. Now I raise seedlings at the other end of the spectrum. I keep them pretty dry intentionally, although I try to never let them wilt. When very young, seedlings can lack the vigor to bounce back if you let them pass the wilt point.

I am so ready to start some seeds just about any day now. This is the hardest time of year. My mind and body want to garden and the weather says "No! Don't do it!"

Dorothy, It sure sounds like the critters have been a big nuisance for you recently. That's one of the huge differences I've found gardening in a very rural area compared to a city. Here in the rural area, every single creature (and there's so many of them!) wants to eat what I plant. It can be quite vexing at times.

Dawn

Chandra,

I grow fresh herbs, salad, and spinach year-round in my unheated garage under regular shop lights. I grow them in large concrete mixing tubs (purchased for $5 each in the concrete aisle of Lowes/Home depot). I have the lights on a timer (10 hours per day). You can top water the tubs, but I tend to over-love and over-water my plants, so I bought a capillary mat. I drilled many holes in all of the tubs. I draped the capillary mat over large commercial full size cookie sheets to prevent drips/mess/ spilling ($5 each), and i drape one end of the capillary mat into a pan of water. I just fill the pan when it is empty. I am attaching pics to better explain. I put the tubs on top of the capillary mat on top of the cookie sheets.

I am hoping I can figure out a good way to covert my system into a seed starting system for the coming months. I was thinking about just buying little dixie cups, cutting out the bottoms, filling with soil and seeds, and placing on top of my existing soil...hoping that the capillary action will keep them moist but I have no idea.

I am new to seed starting and winter sowing this year and hope to find what works for me.

I am not new at growing indoors, in containers, and under lights. At our last home (almost 5 years ago, in WV), I exclusively gardened in containers because we had massive major wildlife on our 12+ acres. I grew in pots on the patio and in our indoor pool room under lights. My harvests there (in 20-40 pots) were better than they have been here in my 6,000 square foot outdoor raised-bed garden here. I grew hundreds each of tomatoes and peppers year round in pots, plus all of the herbs we could eat or give away, and never had a lick of trouble.

Herbs on shelves:

{{gwi:1079924}}

End of capillary mat in a pan of water
{{gwi:1079925}}
Jo

****WARNING!****

Seedmama, our "devoted ProMix activist", you had better sit down before reading this. I decided to tack this post on a recent thread discussing ProMix and Estes Chemical. I went there today to discover they were bought out last September (Winfield Solutions) and no longer carry ProMix and were, in fact, completedly sold out. What was so irritating was that I called late last week and spoke with Jeff, not Greenhouse Mgr Jeff, but the other Jeff to confirm they still carried ProMix and got pricing. I mentioned the OK Gardening forum and that I suspected Estes would have several people coming in to purchase ProMix from them. His exact comment was that the Greenhouse Mgr "would love it if they could sell some of that stuff". Apparently, they had quite a bit of surplus at some point and that it had sat in the warehouse for quite some time.

Well, imagine my surprise when I was told today that they didn't have any. I thought the guy was just joking with me but it quickly became apparent that he was not. I relayed the highlights of my phone conversation and they offered to walk across to the warehouse just to double check but arrived back a few minutes later confirming no ProMix was available.

One of the guys, who'd owned a greenhouse operation previously, wasn't real keen on ProMix. Said he always used Peters because he had much better growth overall with this product. Everyone's got an opinion....

So my question to the group is whether you've used Peters Potting Mix for seed starting and what were your results? Have you found some other brand that you prefer? If so, what and why?

Lynn

As I read this I was sure you had to be joking. I haven't felt well all day, and considered going to bed early. This seals the deal. I'm going to have to think about this tomorrow.

Uggh.

In the event you are unable to locate Pro-Mix, you might want to opt for any of the germination mixes that American Plant Products offers. For me, they are a bit of a drive from where I live. They're located in the NW 10th & County Line vicinity. But, you're gonna get a price break, too.

Their line of product for seed starting consists of Sun-Gro, Berger, and Metro Mix.

They carry so many things it takes me a few hours to peruse their products. Course, I tend to daydream while I'm looking. They also carry the longer bamboo stakes somebody was asking about - 8' and 12'.

I'm attaching a link to the product list of mixes, soils and amendments.

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: American Plant Products

I hope the sad news about ProMix didn't send Seedmama over the edge, Lynn!

Seedmama, I hope you're feeling better today than yesterday.

I like ProMix and MetroMix and Sunshine's mix and just about every other seed-starting mix I've ever used, and have had pretty much the same results no matter which one I use. I haven't tried Peters because it isn't sold in any of the stores I regularly patronize.

I generally just use Jiffy Mix because it is in pretty much any and every store here. It workes fine for me, and I'm not convinced that it wouldn't work for anyone and everyone. As long as you're planting into sterile containers, keep your seed-starting flats in an area with good air flow, and don't overwater, any seed-starting mix should work just fine.

I know plenty of people who don't even bother with a sterile, soil-less seed-starting mix for starting all veggies and simple flowers that germinate easily, but rather just use Miracle Grow or Stagreen Potting Soil, since those are the two found most commonly here. There's just not a lot of places to shop in our rural towns here in southern OK, where even a trip to Wal-Mart is 60-70 miles round-trip. Some of the folks I know here will use a sterile, soil-less mix for small, fine seeds like begonia or petunia seeds or for perennial flower seeds that have more complicated stratification and germination needs and might take a long time to sprout. The longer a seed sits in soil, whether indoors in containers or outside in the ground, the greater the possibility of disease.

If you don't like the seed-starting mixes in your area, you can mix up your own very easily. There's nothing to it.

Dawn

Yes, and that brings to mind that APP also carries bales of sphaghnum peat, and 4 cf bags of perlite if someone wants to make their own.

Susan

Hi all,

This thread is really helpful as I am new to starting from seed. I still have some questions - perhaps someone could advise...?

I have a small light stand and have about 30 peat pellets of mostly ornamentals (digitalis, nicotiana, spanish flag, summer cypress). Also some beet seedlings. I didn't know the peat pellets were so controversial, but they seem to be going fine for me so far; I haven't watered them since sowing because they are still moist (almost a week now) and now I know to tear off the netting.

I am wondering what to do once the true leaves appear on the seedlings: I thought I was supposed to leave them in the pellets until they go in the garden (hardening off first) - but now think I am supposed to transplant them to larger pots first, and keep them inside until it's time. Is that right? And use the "hunk-o-seedlings" method to transplant? My hesitation is that since I am in a Brooklyn "English basement" I don't have much light indoors and was hoping to germinate other seedlings with the grow lights I have - plus square footage will be greatly expanded once they are separated and in many more pots. How much light do the seedlings need once they are in larger pots (small cups)? Do I need to invest in more lights? My backyard is mostly filtered light, which is why I've chosen ornamentals that can deal with partial shade; so they won't be going into an intense light environment out in the real world!

Thanks ever so much for your help.

Michelle.

Hi Michelle,

Peat pots are only controversial because they hold moisture a really long time, as you have discovered, and since they hold so much moisture for so long, gardeners often have issues with damping off diseases with them. Damping off can wipe out a tray of seedlings in just a few days. As long as you have good air flow (I keep a fan running in the room with the seed-starting shelf) and don't overwater (and it sounds like you aren't), they should be fine. Many times when folks are new to seed-starting, they don't know of the importance of good air flow in disease prevention and they also tend to overwater because of course they want their seeds to grow, and with peat pellets that can be fatal for the flowers. That's why I always say I "hate" peat pellets---because I've seen so many newbies lose their seedlings with them. Peat pellets seem simple and often are used by folks new to seed-starting and I think, in a way, they're better for experienced seed-starters who already have learned to avoid overwatering and to encourage good air circulation. As long as you're aware of the need to maintain good air flow and to keep peat pellets moist but not soggy, your seedlings should be fine.
It is possible to keep your seedlings in the peat pellets until you transplant them, but in order to do so, you really have to focus on good air flow, not overwatering, not letting the peat pellets dry out too quickly once the seedlings are larger and use more water daily, and on feeding the plants. Peat has no real nutrition to offer young seedlings, so as they grow, you'll need to feed the young seedlings with a water-soluable fertilizer occasionally so the plants won't be starting for nutrition. Often, with young seedlings, it is advisable to use a water-soluable fertilizer at only half-strength while they are small.

Seedlings transplanted into paper cups do take up more space and it can become an issue. Here in Oklahoma, I move tomato seedlings out to the sunporch in late February so I have room on the seed-starting shelves for flats of other seedlings. On sunny days, I even put the tomato plants outside for some sun (gradually, in a sort of long, extended hardening-off process). If a frost or freezing temperatures threaten, I move the porch plants back inside for the night. Sometimes I feel like I spend all of late winter and early spring carrying plants in and out.

A lot depends on how you started your seedlings. If you only put a couple of seeds in each peat pellet, potting them up remains optional. However, if you put 15 or 20 or 30 seeds in a peat pellet, those need to be separated and put into paper cups. You still could save space by putting two or three plants in each cup. Even in the smallest size cup available, which I think is likely to be the 3 oz. bathroom Dixie cups, 2 or 3 seedlings per cup gives the plants a lot more room for root growth than 15 or more plants in a peat pellet.

Is your outdoor planting date sometime in May? If so, it may be hard to keep plants happy inside until then depending on their rate of growth. I don't know how cold your basement gets at night or how much it warms up during the day, but if you keep it around 60 degrees during the day, the plants will grow more slowly and stay smaller, which in your specific case would be desirable because it helps keep the plants a more manageable size. The warmer the air temperature, the more quickly your seedlings will grow, so growing them on at 60 to 65 degrees will help keep them a manageable size.

Once your seedlings are potted up into cups, they need about the same amount of light they're getting as they sprout. If they aren't getting enough light (or if the room is too warm), they'll stretch and get leggy as they seek to find more light. Without knowing how much light you currently have, it is hard to say if you need more lights. As long as you have lights directly over your plants, and the lights are so close to the plants that they almost touch them (lights should be an inch or two above the plants), the plants will be fine. However, if the lights are 6 or 8 or 10" from the plants, you need to either lower the lights or place bricks or something underneath the plant flat to raise the plants closer to the light.

Hope this info helps,

Dawn

Here's an example of what happens when you start your tomatoes too early - and I've go a month to go.

Ron Z

Dawn -

Thank you! Your help is illuminating. I will be separating and moving them into larger cups, have moved them to a slightly cooler location -you are right, they are getting quite big quite fast!- and will be hoping for a late April moving out date (fingers crossed).

One more question: when moving them out of the peat into the cups, is a blend of seed starting mix and potting soil (I have "Espoma organic") the way to go? Or just potting soil? Or something else?

Again, my thanks.
M.

Here is update on our seedling stages in Indoor, Greenhouse and some already in the raised beds. I think my seedling are going too fast! I hope tomato,pepper and eggplant seedling are not too big to wait few more weeks go in ground.

I have embedded only two pics here to avoid overloading GW, but click on below link to browse more pics on my picasa.

Here is a link that might be useful: see more pics

Michelle,

When you pot up your seedlings, you can put them right into cups of potting soil. They'll be just fine. You're so lucky you can find Espoma organic potting mixes there. I wish we had them here.

I use Espoma fertilizers and right now have 240 lbs. of Tomato-Tone and Garden-Tone sitting in the barn. I add them to the garden soil at planting time and then feed the plants again with them later on in the growing season. Espoma's organic fertilizers are the best organic fertilizers I've found.

Good luck with your plants.

If you think about it, pop back in now and then and let us know how your plants are doing.

If you feel like your seedlings are continuing to grow too fast and get too large (April is still so far away), just keep the lights as close to the tops of the plants as you can so they won't stretch for light, and lower the temperatures again. I'm pretty sure you could hold your seedlings indoors at 50-60 degrees for months. The warmer the temperatures in the basement, the faster they'll grow, so you can slow them down by keeping them cool but above freezing.

Chandra,

Your plants look wonderful. Now, if only the weather would cooperate and warm up and stay warm so you could put them in the ground. With just a little cooperation from the weather, I think you're going to have a great garden this year.

I have tomato plants ready to go into the ground as soon as the cold nights warm up a bit more. We have 35 degrees and frost this morning, so it still is too early, but every day that passes, we're one day closer to our last frost date.

Dawn

Thank you Dawn. I was looking at the 10days forecast for Norman, it says Max and Min temp. ranges b/w 66-76 and 43-52 respectively. I that day/night temp range sounds reliable to plant some seedling outside?

I have already planted indoor-grown Peas and Pava beans last week after 3 days hardening. They seems to be doing good, even thought couple days of nearly-frost (33) temp which killed two potato plants. I won't mind potatoes as they were too big and not hardened properly. I hope rest of the non-spouted seed potato should be ok in the ground (planted a week ago).

Regards-Chandra

Chandra,

It is too early in March to trust the weather forecast and it certainly is too early to set out any warm-season crops without the use of Wall-o-Waters or other plant protectors. I've only planted out this early once (on March 9th that year) and had my plants survive.

Even as far south as I am--about 120 miles south of OKC--I won't even consider transplanting any warm season plants into the ground until March 20th at the earliest, and my average last freeze date is March 27th or 28th, depending on which data you use.

At our house last night/early this morning, for example, the forecast low was supposed to be 39, and we went down to 35 degrees at our house with a medium frost and our OK Mesonet station at Burneyville went down to 28 degrees. If I'd had warm-season plants in the ground already, or even outdoors in pots, they would have frosted and would be either dead or severely frozen back this morning. I know the frost was on the ground for at least 3 hours and tomato plants can't take that, and neither can peppers and other warm season plants.

Yesterday afternoon, I carried ten flats of tomato plants into the well-insulated garage well before sunset and closed the door to help hold in the heat, so the cold night didn't affect them. I left the flats of pea, nasturtium and strawberry plants in the uninsulated potting shed and they are fine but the nasturtiums looked the slightest bit sulky when I moved them outside to the shed's little front porch this morning.

The peas are going into the ground today. I've been watching the calendar carefully because peas can freeze in the low 20s and I feel fairly confident that in my area, we will not go any lower than the mid-20s from this point forward. I still feel like we will have more frost and more freezing nights here in southern Oklahoma, and certainly y'all will have them there in central Oklahoma as well.

One important thing to remember is that frost can occur at temperatures higher than 32 degrees. At our house, we often have frost even when the air temperature is in the upper 30s. I don't remember having that happen in Fort Worth, but in Ft. Worth we often went from cold to hot just like that and winter was over. Here, in the spring, the daytime highs indicate winter has ended and spring has arrived, but the nights stay winter-cold until almost April, and sometimes beyond.

Your potatoes in the ground will be fine. Even if you have some dieback of above-ground potato foliage from freezing temps or frost, they'll often resprout and produce, although sometimes they are damaged so badly that production is lower than it otherwise would have been.

When I start putting warm-season crops in the ground, I'll post here and say so. As far as I know, no one here in my county has put any warm-season plants or seed in the ground yet. Some folks in far eastern and southeastern OK likely can plant warm-season crops before I can because they have their last freeze and last frost a few days before we do here. In general, folks in central OK don't put warm-season crops into the ground until April. (Some will plant earlier if they have a warmer microclimate or can use plant protectors like low tunnels, buckets to cover up plants, Wall-O-Waters, etc.)

My experience covering up tomato plants and pepper plants with 5-gallon buckets on cold nights is that is only works about 50% of the time, so I just hold my plants in their cups longer and don't risk losing them to frost or a freeze.

Remember that in central OK, your last freeze date doesn't even occur until somewhere between April 1st - April 10th at the earliest, and the average date is the "50%" date, meaning on that date you still have a 50% chance of having a night cold enough to damage or kill plants.

The conventional wisdom says that to be safe, you should wait and plant your tomato plants two weeks after your average last freeze date, and in a climate where the heat is slower to arrive, I agree with that. However, since we are in a tremendous race to get good fruitset before the temperatures get too high here, there are not a lot of us who wait until two weeks after our average last frost date to plant. We have a hard enough time restraining ourselves from planting two weeks before our average last frost date.

My personal experience here indicates that in my specific location in our county, we will have a freeze after our "average last freeze date" about 9 years out of 10. I've learned that the hard way.

On the attached link, click on the freeze data to see the maps that show average (50%) last freeze data. There's also maps for a 90%, 70%, 30% chance, etc. This data generally represents 30 year averages, so it is as reliable as anything else we have.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Last Frost Data from the OCS

Thank you again Dawn, your words are quite convincing to tie my hand to plants them out too early. I bought few Wall-O-Waters, thinking to plant few tomatoes next next weekend (3/19).

Have you any update on indoor starting of the warm season crops (other than eggplants, peppers,and tomatoes).

When you all start seeds indoor: corn, okra, cucumbers, bush/pole/lima beans, soybean (edamame), squash, southern peas, melons, gourds, edible amaranth, etc

Dawn, that is good advice about keeping seedlings cool to slow down their growth. I had to move ALL of mine to my unheated poorly insulated garage due to a light failure in the mudroom, and they are growing VERY slowly. Mine look to be months behind Chandra's, but I think we only planted a week or two apart.

(I used Epsoma potting mix for mine)

Here they are at 3 weeks old
{{gwi:1079933}}

and 4 weeks
{{gwi:1079935}}

Jo

Chandra, I'll try to post some info on starting the seeds of the remaining warm-season crops tonight or tomorrow. The only ones that require weeks and weeks of growth are eggplants, tomatoes and peppers. The rest can be direct seeded, or if you wish to start them inside, they can go outside only a few days after they sprout.

Jo, I have a lot of trouble keeping seedlings cool. My seed starting room is on the SW corner of the house with a south-facing window and a west-facing window and on "hot" (well, you know, hot for winter) days, that room can heat up more than I like. Next year I'm going to set up the seed-starting shelf in a room on the northeast corner of the house because it stays cooler naturally.

Moving them outside helped a little, but we've had so many days in the 70s and 80s that they're still growing faster than I like. Having exposure to cold (but above-freezing) temps outdoors at night has slowed them down some.

My ground is ready for tomatoes. My tomatoes are ready for the ground. My 'gut instinct' tells me not to plant before the end of March, so I probably won't. Paula says the Farmer's Almanac warns of a cold spell near the end of March and that fits in with my gut feeling that I shouldn't rush things. Meanwhile, confined to the sunporch to stay out of today's wind, the tomato plants are growing like Jack's Beanstalk.

If we are hit by a very cold spell late now that everything here is blooming, leafing out, etc., there's going to be a lot of plant damage.

About the only good news on the seed-starting front is that cutworms haven't attacked anything in my garden yet. I think it may be too warm for them to be very active at our house, and I'm OK with that!

Dawn

Jo, I know you're a long way from me, but where in the heck did you get your Espoma potting mix? Gosh, I wish we had that available here. If anyone sees this post and has seen or bought any in the OKC area, please post location.

Ron, your plants look good! Chandra, yours too! Everybody's does.

Ugh....cutworms! There is nothing worse than going out to check your plants in the morning, only to find them sliced off at the base and lying on the top of the soil. Grrrrrr.
Susan

I agree, and ever since Bill posted (I think it was last week?) that he had what looked like cutworm damage done to his onions, I've been checking my onions daily for cutworm damage. I haven't seen any here though, for which I'm grateful.

Now that the peas are in the ground, I have to watch them too, but so far nothing's eating them either, which also is a good thing. So far this year, the birds, bunnies and cutworms are well-behaved. The rabbits shouldn't be able to get into the fenced garden, but young rabbits are pretty small and sometimes find a way in.

Dawn

Susan, I got two big bags of it last year from Sears when I signed up for their free shipvantage trial shipping. I am down to half a bag which bums me out because I need to grow some cukes and stuff in containers. Not sure what to use.

Jo

Oh I just looked at Sears and they are having a free ship offer right now!!!

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