I don't know about that specific one, but the first place that I would check is

Raft Island Roses - 7201 Rosedale St NW, Gig Harbor, 98335 - (253) 853-7900

That's where I went to purchace my roses last year, and they have a huge selection, and everything seemed to be well-kept. It is owned and run by a familiy, and they are all very friendly.

I know Heronswood has this cultivar onsite, but I don't think they have it on their catalog.

If you can't find it elsewhere this spring, let me know has I have a few cuttings just leafing out in the greenhouse.

Cheers,

Riz

Heirloom Roses in Oregon has it. I have one that I bought from them some years back. It's wonderful! They are a superb and reputable source.

Also, I think in general roses are over-rated. Most are disease prone. This one is exceptional. Has a very natural grace and beauty about it. Wonderful fragrance.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom Roses

The Uncommon Rose is in Oregon. If they have it I think they are less likely to send you a mislabeled plant, though with Darlow's it might be less of an issue than with others. Vintage Roses in northern California is a great source - not sure if they have Darlow's at the moment. Between those three you can pretty much avoid having to order stuff from the East coast.

Thanks, everyone -- Riz, thanks for the generous offer to share your rooted cuttings -- and Eric, I think you're the one who got me interested in this rose to begin with. I'm with you, I'm not a huge rose fan (although I do like some of the old-fashioned shrub roses and some single-flowered ones). But this one sounds wonderful and I have just the spot for it so I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Time to order!

Happy growing!

Carol Ann, If you haven't yet placed your order, you may want to check out Amity Heritage Roses in northern CA. Their plants are exceptional and their shipping is unsurpassed. I buy many of my roses from them and the level of service is tremendous. Plus, the roses thrive in my garden!

As a rose afficionado, I have to stand up and be counted. While there are many roses that suffer from black spot or mildew, there are many classes that are hardy and flourish in our climate. My garden is filled with rugosas, mosses, musks and hybrid musks, noisettes, and tea noisettes, as well as damasks that show no disease at all. One really simple rule of thumb - select a rose with very dark shiny green leaves. It's going to perform well for you.

You'll love Darlow's. It's a gorgeous rose - I just wish I had the room!

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Amity Heritage Roses

Common, gaudily colored 'American Pillar' has gorgeous highly glossy leaves and mildews like a dead fish. So much for the glossy = clean theory. However, I have to agree about there being plenty of roses that are not disease magnets--I have a collection of them myself.

"Darlow's Enigma" is a study name bestowed after Mike was shown by yours truly that the plant he was selling as Rosa moschata 'Plena' was not that one. He got his plant from "a lady in the Willamette Valley," lost the name it came with. Recently the claim has been made that its original name was 'Cascadia', however that one has been described as having pink flowers.

The only reason I pooh-pooh roses is that they get all the glory. They're the showdogs. I still go crazy whenever I see R. glauca, still don't have one yet. I was into hybrid musks a number of years ago and bought them as gifts for friends.

The roses I like best are ramblers that take up lots of space.

Here is a link that might be useful: Alberic Barbier in my garden

Oh Eric, that AB is a gorgeous rose. Looks like you're one of those folks who "protests too much." With limited space, you might be interested in joining us for the Anne Belovich work day since she's discovered that most of her ramblers love a simple pole to climb. I'm looking forward to learning her methods of maximizing space with her structures...any solution that increases my rose collection more vertically than horizontally is highly desireable!

bboy, there's always an exception to a rule. Wouldn't you agree that generally the glossy dark green leaves rule holds true? Interestingly, I have never seen mildew on a dead fish. Belovich mentioned recently that lack of water seems to contribute to mildew problems. Thoughts?

Sue

Pillar roses so-called because vertical habit suitable for training on pillars (poles). This has been done a long time.

Have seen two unsprayed PNW collections of hybrid roses where nearly all had blackspot, regardless of gloss. There are so many kinds of roses that a substantial number that do not need spraying to retain most leaves can still be accumulated.

At least some mildew definitely seems to be associated with drought. Summer combination of damp (but not wet) foliage (from fog and dew) and dry roots appears favorable. Mildewing of plants against walls thought to be due to drying of soil by concrete foundation.

bboy, I'm aware of the climbing history and possibilities of pillars and poles. What I should have said more clearly is that I'm interested in the designs of her pillars and poles. More art than function at issue here.

Heirloom Roses in Oregon would be an excellent choice. Their stock is sturdy, on its own roots, and generally trouble free. They have a huge display garden and their Darwin's Enigma is beautiful. jwww

Darwin's Enigma was much bigger than what to call a rose.

Strangely, my American Pillar does not get mildew, although several roses near it do. GO figure!

If you live close to it, Christiansons Nursery has a TON of roses. Of course, they get their roses from many diffrent suppliers. I think they list their roses online but I havn't looked in awhile so I could be wrong. I think I'd rather order from someplace like Vintage or Heirloom than buy at Christiansons (at least for roses) but oh well.

I'm totally rose obsessed... and I love big roses. Ramblers are favorites of mine.

True, nomenclature would be more Linnaeus' gig, wouldn't it...

It's in the current Antique Rose Farm '2006 Catalog':

Don & Jackie McElhose
12220 Springhetti Road
Snohomish, WA 98296
(360) 568-1919 or Fax: 360.568.6969

Thanks again, everyone. I often learn more than I expect when I post here and this was one of those case.

I ordered the rose and it arrived, just in time for the snow here today :) but I should get it planted this weekend. Can't wait to see how it does!

That is an awesome rose! You'll be very happy with it.

Do you grow any hybrid musk roses?

carol ann,
I bought a darlow's from a lady in tacoma last year. It was a baby own root.And she is doing wonderfully now(well, i really have not checked since the snow) but it is now robust and was climbing about 5 feet this last summer. She sells them off e-bay and i think i won the bid for 17.00. Was able to save on shipping and pick it up myself .I highly recommend her. Ill get back to u with the name of her business. vickie

the name is vintage bloomers. have a look-see on e-bay.

The lady in Tacoma is doing wonderfully? Probably thanks to Mike selling it at his former place Old Rose Garden (in Kenmore, condos now) it has become rather common here--one of those roses you see in gardens of people that don't grow roses. People from other regions have posted here many times about it as well, so it has definitely made the rounds.

Thanks again -- I'll be getting another rose or two but I'm not going to have many in our yard -- but now I have lots of options for finding them. I'm pretty pleased with Heritage but I know there are other good suppliers.

One of the attractions of 'Darlow's Enigma' is that it supposedly does well in shade. My first pick of a place to put it would be in full shade, bright light but no sun at all... I've read that it works well in such a situation but I'm leary. After all, it's a rose :) Anyone have direct experience with that?

Eric, no, I don't have any hybrid musks... don't have any other roses, period. We pulled out a ton of junipers last year and although the yard has some nice bones (mainly some mature trees), we're otherwise working with very little previous plant material. I've got the design about figured out and am working on plant selection. Have some more roses to suggest? My original criteria stand (fragrant, long bloom season, disease-free or nearly so, love the climbers and shrub types). I'd like to have something fragrant by our front door to go with the clematis ('Ramona'). Maybe something that would climb up the side of the porch and cascade over the edges a bit...

vickie, I'm glad to hear about the growth of your rose -- my own is a small, own-root plant and I'm looking forward to seeing how it does!

No snow day today -- darn! :)

Happy gardening, everyone!

Well now you've gone and done it. I just ordered two rambling roses from Heirloom Roses; DARLOW'S ENIGMA and VEILCHENBLAU. Thanks a bunch Eric.

Las year we ordered a climbing rose "Americn Rose' from ... The name escapes me at this moment. A nice and mildly fragrant climber growing on it's own root stock. I have given up trying to grow roses that are grafted. This rose has weathered the cold this year admirably. It has good canes with a few leaves that have not been singed by the cold snaps we've had.

I am hoping these heirloom roses are in that category.

jb

I just wanted to thank you guys for helping me out with this little thread. I've been thinking about a Darlow's Enigma for awhile and hadn't decided. I built a clear cedar(2x2 vertical on 4" centers ) and bright copper (1/2" horizontal on 18" centers) fence/trellis that frames my front yard. Each section is 6'x6' and the plan was to use a combination of vines/climbers, and maybe even an espaliered satsuma or the like. I've already got a J&P Stairway to Heaven and a Scent from Above planted on two sides of where the fence 90's and I kept going back and forth as to whether I really wanted another rose or if I should go with vines. I did kind of want to find room for the Darlow's just based on looking at it in the Heirloom catalogue over the winter, and now based on this thread, it's pretty much a no brainer :-)

I've also been looking real hard at a Lyda Rose to place next to the copper gate into my pond/rock garden. Heirloom rates it a "10" for fragrance but I've only talked to one person who has ever seen it. Anybody have any comments pro or con about it?

Thanks again !

Boxofrox, my experience with Darlow's says 6x6 isn't anywhere close enough to sufficient room for it to grow. The most recent plant I saw was 2 years old and about 10x12, still growing voraciously in the East Hill area of Kent. It was a massive shrub that would have eaten a trellis, but there hadn't been any effort made to train it, either. It sure smelled great!

I have Lyda Rose, she's about 5x5 and she smells lovely, but she's not a 10 in my book. I'd give her a 7. Very healthy and floriferous.

Hope that helps.

Used to cover a gazebo in Seattle. Habit often twiggy when small, still semi-bushy later. Often seen as a free standing shrub. Not a rambler, with long ropey canes that are cut out after flowering (when grown on a pillar or frame).

I wouldn't plant it in full shade. The flowers are small, the heads often appearing scattered to if you want the fullest possible effect you will give it good light.

I gave a Lyda Rose to a neighbor as a gift. It is a wonderful rose.

I'm not a rose expert, but I recall that the hybrid musks were the ones that could grow in part shade. I'm wondering if Darlow's is a hybrid musk or of that parenatge.

Even if it gets too big, you can always cut it back.

Bboy, what about the varieties of R. moschata? How is disease? I have several (Temple Musk, the species, Secret Garden, and protonoisettes - Princesse de Nassau, Nastarana,) on order and will be placing them in the shadier areas, but don't know how they will perform.

I wouldn't plant these hot climate roses in shade here either. Rosa moschata has been clean for me, the plant sold as 'Nastarana'* tender, short growing and prone to blackspot (here and on other local sites). I haven't kept it going. "Secret Garden Musk Climber" has been clean but has not grown large at all. Other posters report tall growth of 'Nastarana' and "Secret Garden" in hot climates.

*No way to tell if this has anything to do with the original application of the name a long time ago

Suze,

I have a number of these 6x6 panels to cover and there is just a 4x4 post between them so I was planning to use probably 2 panels for each climber and fill in as they grow with multiple clematis on the panels and various perennials/low shrubs, groundcovers etc. to fill in below. This fence transitions into a row of arborvitaes (sp)that are a little lower so the plan for the Darlows was to let it grow a ways above them if it needed to tie the whole thing together. I figured if I let it spread a bit, it could certainly be kept at 6-7'.

jb,

I did you one better and ordered 3...a Darlow's Enigma, a Lyda Rose, and that little black, velvet purple one called Midnight Blue, after which my wife turned rose nazi on me and screamed "NO MORE ROSES FOR YOU!"

She doesn't know it yet but she'll be thanking me because all within about 15-20' of the pergola next to our pond we will have the Darlow's Enigma, Scent from Above, Outrageous, Sunset Celebration, Stairway to Heaven, Star Jasmine, Lyda Rose, Midnight Blue, Daphne Odora, Daphne 'Wilhelm Scacht', Kleims Hardy, Osmanthus burkwoodi, and Agastache "Tuti-fruiti". I'm thinking she'll think we have just enough roses :-)

Osmanthus delavayi is much more potent and not inclined to grow into a small tree.

bboy,

Will it grow in the cascade foothills and do you know a nursery that carries it?

Thanks,
jb
PS Damn you boxofrox! Guess I'll have to get back online. Your garden must be a fragrant symphony, very nice.

Osmanthus x burkwoodii will also blacken in a hard (0 to 10F) winter, like 1990 was in Seattle area. O. delavayi is commonly offered here, especially with flowering time coming on you would probably just have to make a few phone calls to locate it. Some of the roses mentioned here will also have problems below 10 or even 15F.

I actually did look at both the burkwoodii and the delavayi but I was trying to frame a planting area with one on each side and the structure of the former just seemed to fit the space better. I suppose only time will tell if I made the wrong choice :-)

I did look at the delavayi again today when I went to by my Lion's Head "pony tree". I have a long way to go on this project and I'll have some places for it.

jb,
It's a work in progress :-) This little spot sits just off the pond and the combination of the humidity from the waterfalls and the mixture of various fragrances, is definitely a welcome respite at the end of a long hard day on the road.