Pic's

Here is a link that might be useful: 2008

here is 2011......you can see that its taken over

Here is a link that might be useful: 2011

First of all, Rudbeckia is a genus and there are several different species in that genus. According to wikipedia, they are all native to North America.

The best way to identify it is to take a picture of a single flower from the front and also from the back (so we can see the green part holding the flower). Also take a picture of a leaf, or of several leaves if there are different leaf shapes on the same plant (for example, Rudbeckia triloba has some single lobed leaves and some with several lobes).

So if you can take those pictures, perhaps we can help you.

It IS incredible how much yours have spread!

Here you go....

Here is a link that might be useful: closeup1

Here you go

Here is a link that might be useful: Second pic

Based on those pictures, I'd say it is a form of Rudbeckia fulgida.

The relatively few, short rays make me think it could be Rudbeckia triloba. Are there any 3-lobed leaves near the base of the plant?

Lycopus

You pegged it.....the stems have a redish tint and the flower themselves are smaller.....but it grows 4-5' tall

My main concern again is the best way to control it....pull the clumps now while its full bloom, so the it can't drop seed?

Will it flower again next year considering its a biennial? Even if it doesnt will the foliage take over and choke out the others?

I like it but as you can see by the 2008 vs 2011 pictures its completely taken over.

I need help with a game plan......Should it all come out?

or

Can it stay but needs to be cut down before it dies and the flowers have a chance to reseed.

This article scares me the title is "Garden thugs" and you guessed it Rudbeckia triloba is on the list

Here is a link that might be useful: garden thugs

Did you confirm that there are some lobed leaves elsewhere on the plant?

esh ga

I will verify in morning.....but I almost certain it is. If's not what I have would be the twin sister......

Assuming its triloba do you have any suggestions....the pictures I posted speak for themselves.

The garden thugs article verifys what I'm seeing first hand this type is extremely aggresive

Rudbeckia triloba has never been a thug in my gardens. It is rather short-lived, a biennial at best for me and it does reseed but never aggressively. It will pop up here and there but nothing I can't move or pull if I don't like it.

But I personally wonder about the article you referenced. I don't believe it is a Rudbeckia triloba blossom that they have with the write up on it. Looks like a different Rudbeckia altogether. Makes you wonder about the correctness of the information.

FataMorgana

esh ga

It definitely has lobbed leaves towards the base. I verified this morning

fatamorgana

Dont get me wrong its beautiful and I like it but again take a look at the pictures......its completely taken over. If you google you will find other articles alluding how it can spread like crazy, some people have suggested its almost invasive in its reproduction.

Granted the location for us is full sun and on lake so it recieves alot of wind so the prospect of the seeds blowing everywhere is not that far fetched.

So because its a biennial and it's blooming now, will only leaf out next year and then no blooms? I have read that this biennial reallly evolves in annual as the seeds drop at different times over the years so essentially you always have some blooming.

In the short term now that I have established its triloba and considering its everywhere and crowing and choking out other plants.....do I pull it out with the exception of some strategically placed clumps?

Biennial means it lives 2 growing seasons and dies after blooming. Common mullein and burdock are good examples of biennials that you might be familiar with. Annual is one growing season and perennial lives 3 or more growing seasons.

I've never had a Rudbeckia triloba live more than 2 years - blooming in the 2nd. Short of random seedlings here and there which many plants do, it is pretty well-behaved for me. Different growing conditions do yield vastly different experiences. A problem plant for you might not be for me and vice-versa that is why I only spoke about my experiences other than the article which I question since I am fairly positive that is not a R. triloba picture they used for the R. triloba write-up.

If you don't want it to continue, I would dead-head them. If it is R. triloba, they are short-lived perennials at best and don't live long. With dedicated dead-heading, they will vanish from your gardens in a couple of seasons with diminished numbers each year.

FataMorgana

Thanks FataMorgana

So to confirm the actual Rudbeckia triloba I have will have a life span of 2 years. I assume they only re-seed in the 2nd year when they are done flowering. Is it possible for them to reseed by chance when they are in the leaf only stage?

Secondly so really what your saying is unless they re-seed, because they are biennials they will be done in terms of showing up.

Currently I'm on 5th garbage can of removing it. Again we love it but not at the expense of it choking out the other plants.

I've seen it growing elsewhere in the area with the same overall behaviors I've seen in my gardens. But biennial or short-lived perennial (maybe 3'ish years) for you? I can't say for certain. We've already seen vastly different behaviors.

While different plants can vary in propagation methods, a plant can never "reseed by chance when they are in the leaf stage only." Seeds are produced by flowers.

FataMorgana

I have not grown R. triloba personally, but I have a few in pots this year that I'm babysitting on my driveway so I am familiar with the foliage. So, I can't vouch for it's behavior, but all I read about it says to propagate from seed so that would lead me to believe it doesn't spread itself underground (by rhizomes).

As FataMorgana says, if you deadhead it regularly then you will eventually weed it out of existence. For a few years you will have some volunteers because there are seeds yet in the soil from previous years. Consider leaving a few this year - the birds love the seeds (I just saw two goldfinches on my Rudbeckia fulgida) and managing it via deadheading in the years to come.