I had read the comments from the Tea Bag ladies, but will go back to one of the first questions I asked about 'Francis Dubreuil', when this thread first began to drift from its original topic: Was the original 'Francis Dubreuil' a "true Tea", or was he a "Hybrid Tea"? Or was he that other thing, a "Tea hybrid"? The earliest descriptions of FD say his color was a dark red with pink or cerise or amaranth highlights. My assumption is that 'FD' was darker than other red Teas, but would not have looked terribly out of place hanging out with other reds such as 'Gen Gallieni', 'M. Tillier', 'Souv. de David d'Angers', 'Mlle Christine de Nouë', ''Corallina', 'Safrano a Fleurs Rouges', 'Princesse de Sagan', 'Bardou Job' and- of course- 'Souv de Therese Levet'. Here's a 1901 review from a German rose reviewer about Francis: "Francis Dubreuil (Dubreuil 1895) is not only one of the most excellent red Tea roses but also one of the best Tea roses of all. The flower is in fact only of medium size, and sometimes even small, but keeps extremely well. It lasts In bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful. The growth is vigorous and the crown is well branched. What I like most about this rose, is its capacity to produce solitary flowers on long, upright stems, I do not like roses in flower umbels (in clusters). Its floriferousness (flowering period) is very long, it lasts right up to the frosts." That mention of "solitary flowers on long, upright stems" makes me think we might find some HP ancestry in Francis' background, no? And it accords well with other early mentions of FD having "diffuse growth"... Here's an early discrepancy, though; the review above says 'FD' "lasts in bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful". Contrast that with an earlier British review- Francis "is described as full flower of a fine form, opening very readily, perhaps too much so"... So if Francis was dark red and had diffuse growth, he seems to be quacking like an early HT, and not a "pure Tea"? Was he classified as a Tea because of his fragrance? According to Guillot, 'FD' is descended from 'Souv de David d'Angers' (described as "deliciously fragrant" in 1864) who is in turn descended from 'Caroline', the Tea that may be synonymous with 'Bermuda Spice'. Some early reviews of 'FD' say he is fragrant, most say nothing, and at least one reviewer says "not fragrant". This assortment of varying opinions shouldn't be surprising, given humans' different capacities for smell, and given the way odors can vary according to temperature, time of day, etc. The scent of Tea roses seems to be especially elusive, and elicits a confusion of descriptions, so I'm inclined to believe that the original Francis probably had a Tea scent and was fragrant to some people and not to others. However, I think it's also possible that if there were an early confusion with at least one grower offering a different rose as 'Francis D', the differences in opinion about form and fragrance could stem from an early switcheroo. Just because there was a later mix-up with 'Barcelona' doesn't mean there wasn't also an earlier mix-up somewheres down the line. And if there were an earlier misidentification, this early imposter might be the rose that was later sent from Sangerhausen to Oz in 1981? Another question I have relates to size. The Tea rose grown by Mr Knight just outside of Sydney was a large rose bush. The roses grown in the U.S. and Oz as FD today both seem to be more compact and HT-like (although the Aussie plant that hails from Sangerhausen seems to have a earlier HT look than 'Barcelona' does?) I'm trying to get things straight in my own head, so if I'm off-course in my suppositions, please get me back on track. Virginia

Kim, I'm not convinced that the color was so rare- a search of Tea Roses at HMF shows quite a few that are called red or dark red, including FD's presumed ancestor, 'Souv. de David D'Angers'. The dark red color combined with the large flower probably was a real treat, though, and it sounds like the plant was a nice shape if grown in suitable conditions on suitable understock. I read the review below of 'Francis Dubreuil' from a 1906 issue of Gardening Illustrated Magazine, and felt that 'FD' was being praised for his beauty, but also subtly dismissed. The writer suggests that because 'FD' has a weak neck that the HT's 'Liberty', 'Warrior' and 'Richmond' are better choices for red flowered pot roses, and that 'Princesse de Sagan' is a better choice for mass planting of a red Tea in the garden. 'FD' is best grown as a standard for buttonhole flowers. Honestly, if I were in the market for a red Tea rose in 1906, I wouldn't have rushed out to buy 'FD' after reading this review... As for why 'FD' wasn't available in U.S. nurseries at the turn of the 20th Century, it may have been due to something fairly simple- poor marketing, problems with importation, plant losses due to weather/poor storage or some other factor(s) lost in the sands of time. Or you may be right to suspect that 'Francis Dubreuil' just wasn't a very good or useful rose, and American nurseries preferred to devote limited space to better/ more popular plants. Virginia Rose Francis Dubreuil Red Tea Roses appear very much out of place when mixed with other Tea-scented varieties at the exhibitions, but in the garden their value is justly appreciated. It is a question whether the Rose under notice of the variety Souvenir de Therese Levet is the better, but I think the place of honour is usually accorded to Francis Dubreuil. It is a lovely Rose, of exquisite shape in the bud, and of a rich dark amaranth-red colour, with a maroon shading. Its beauty is best displayed when grown in standard form. Here it will make a glorious head, if budded upon a thrifty Brier, and one may always be sure of a good button-hole flower from a tree of this sort. Neither this variety nor Souvenir de Therese Levet is seen to very great advantage as bush plants, their growth being rather too diffuse to be used as garden varieties, but upon a low wall they would be grand. Where highly-coloured flowers are appreciated several plants of Francis Dubreuil should be grown, considering the scarcity of good reds among the Hybrid Teas, and by good cultivation upon well-drained soil blossoms of great beauty may be obtained. Being a true Tea, it is as free flowering in autumn as in summer. The tropical weather of the last few weeks has been very favourable to this Rose, and I have been able to cut numbers of lovely blossoms. There is a beautiful reddish Rose named General Gallieni which is worth growing. It has a tinge of coppery-yellow at base of petals, and often pervading the centre petals, but its general effect is red. Betty Berkeley and Friquet are two other good crimson or...[bottom of the page is cut off]... but the best of all for general effect in the mass is Princesse de Sagan, which is as much a China as it is a Tea Rose. How effective are its velvety crimson blossoms, so quaintly twisted and so freely produced! Another Rose that has been splendid just lately is the Hybrid Tea Etoile de France. I have been inclined to condemn this Rose, but must hesitate in view of what I have lately seen. I am afraid that in a cool or wet season it would be a failure, but in seasons like the present it will be fine. As a pot-Rose Francis Dubreuil has one failing, and that is a peculiar weakness in the stalk, which causes the blooms to bend at the neck and appear on the plant quite distorted. Market growers have, for this reason, been obliged to discard the variety. Perhaps it is not wanted as a pot-Rose now that we have such beautiful reds as Liberty, Warrior, and Richmond. ROSA.

Hi Bob, I appreciate your comments. I did want to point out to all that this was originally posted in February of 05. I have found myself posting to an old post a number of times and didn't realize it. Easy to do. I am glad this post was resurrected as it gives me an opportunity to update. Wow, it has been two years since I posted that. So what has changed since then? Well..I don't feel overwhelmed any more and I have arrived at a comfortable pace at making changes to native. My maple tree remains and I feel fine with that decision. As I pointed out before, I am surrounded by maples of the same variety and removing mine will not make a difference at all in my immediate neighborhood. I do still hold out hope of taking the tree down, but one thing at a time. We removed a 100ft shrub border of old overgrown shrubs and started with a clean slate. Have started adding native shrubs and perennials. Clethra, a gray dogwood that someone here recommended, lindera benzoin, oakleaf hydrangea, ninebark and viburnums and a small dogwood tree and amelanchier tree so far. We are enjoying the new plants in the yard, but the change has not been without cost. Ripping out that whole border has exposed our yard all along our back lot line and we have no privacy at all whereas before no one could see into our yard. That is another reason the tree has remained. So when our new border fills in enough to give us some privacy we may find we are ready to take the tree down. Has anyone checked prices on having a tree removed? I have been hearing $1,000. Pretty steep! As for perennials...we created a long 50 ft raised border along our vegetable garden and are in the process of adding butterfly plants and other natives. Asclepias, echinacea, joe pye weed among others. We are now just beginning to add shade natives. This seems to be a little more difficult because they are expensive and not as easy to start from seed as the sun lovers are. I also am on a budget so I look for seed trades and for some reason the shade plant seeds seem to be scarce. We have also started buying more and more from the NEWFS here in Massachusetts. That is new. I have also met and have started corresponding with at least two other GW members who are also interested in native plants. Plus it just seems to me I am running into more and more posts on GW that mention an interest in natives. That is very encouraging. So..two problem plants that are still in my yard are one burning bush, that is slated for removal as soon as we can get to it. The other is a spring poppy that is not the native but the import from China. I have started pulling the non native poppy two years ago, but still am getting back some reseeded ones evidently. I think this will be the year though. I just ordered some native poppy seeds from NEWFS and hope I get good germination. I am ready to pull the next generation of the old poppy and that might do it for me then in goes the native poppy and voila! lol I am enjoying it and feeling good about it. So I hope that encourages everyone in the native forums that all your time spent responding to posts and answering questions and trading seeds is making a difference. :-) adam

Plectranthus argentatus is certainly worth growing. It is relatively large among the Plectanthri, - meaning thigh-height. Its large silvery leaves are a bit smaller than the palm of your hand. It is unusual and therefore valuable in a landscape sense in being one of the few silver-leafed plants that will grow in the shade, and therefore lighten up a gloomy corner. They also do well in full sun. The flowers are pale lavender-colour. The leaves, however, are not aromatic. P. suaveolens is the scented-leaf one that you are most likely to be able to buy, I think. Silver leaves, lavender flowers, but a smaller plants and definitely wants good drainage and not much water. Win points for growing a rare and threatened thing. Plectranthus blakei is my favourite for flowers, which are in big terminal spikes and a good strong shade of purple. The stems are red and the leaves green. A thigh-high plant, taller than it is wide, so best planted in quantity for a good show. There is an aromatic green-leafed one which grows at the Bunya Mountains. I wish I knew its name as it is very attractive dense thing with the shape of a rounded thigh-high shrub. I have another problem in being too ethical to pinch a cutting from a national park. More fool me, I suppose. P parviflorus is not worth the trouble. A scrappy-looking plant, but perhaps the commonest in the wild. Other names are: P. alloplectus, 70cm, rare and threatened, from Moreton district. violet blue flowers, no fragrance P. amoenus, dwarf, aromatic, S. Qld, hairy leaves green above and silver below, lilac-blue flowers, flowering well in light shade. P. gratus. Strongly aromatic. Can't remember which one is it in my garden, but I think the leaves are green. P. graveolens. silver leaves,with a good strong scent. 1m Violet blue flowers P. nitidus. Probably not worth the trouble, as not scented and not remarkable flowers P. spectabilis. Only lightly fragrant. Grow this one for the showy flowers in big fluffy heads. Green leaves with purple backs. P. torrenticola. Dwarf, silver leaves, fairly fragrant, light purple flowers. Am I being ambiguous here? In all cases it's the leaves, not the flowers which are fragrant. There are also a few introduced Plectranthri in Australia. One of them is an old fashioned thing which Queenslanders used to grow in their gardens to use in cooking. It was called "All-purpose herb", but I haven't seen it for years. I think it originated in Ceylon. Our gardeners are too strongly influenced in their herb-growing habits (as in so much else) by imported gardening books, I think, and this has just gone out of fashion. It has a good strong sage-and-thyme flavour, as I remember. There might be good native ones for culinary use, but I haven't heard of anyone using them, and am reluctant to experiment! But where to get all these lovely plants? I still can't do any better than suggest your local branch of the Australian Plant Society, which might put you on to people who...