Pam - I see you saw my comments on the rudbecka Rustic not-really-dwarf mix on the other thread. For folks who missed that, the 1/8 oz pack at Swallowtail (in their annual seeds section) contains about 3000-4000 seeds so that actually beats the prices on most of what they offer in their bulk section. The Swallowtail bulk section is always worth checking, but sometimes they also have wickedly huge seed packets at low prices in their regular section. Some of my faves there include: California poppies at 4500 seeds for $2.49 - $2.95 depending on type. Strawflowers, 5000 seeds for $2.49 Cosmos, 1300 seeds for $1.95 Foxgloves Excelsior hybrids at 20,000 seeds (yes, no typo) for $2.95 but currently out of stock. (But you could get 2500 seeds from ValueSeed.com for $0.99 if you need a bunch right now.) They've got some other bargains in there too but those are my favorites. Their xeranthemum and paper daisies have bargain packs but I wasn't impressed with the flowers or plants - especially when compared to their tall strawflower mix. That tall strawflower mix is a real winner. I didn't know they were as hardy as they were - my plants were green and flowering into the beginning of December here. In your area you might still have them blooming at Christmas. Another of my favorites is Helenium Autumanale - especially after seeing it as Bluestone's Perennial's cover flower in last year's catalog. I bought a pack from the bulk section at Swallowtail - 1000 seeds for just under $10. I got those in late May last year. The germinated fast (and with a very high germination rate), transplanted well, many bloomed the first year and I got a nice seed farm level of seed out of those. Helenium flowers are gorgeous with a lot of variety. They blow in the breeze in a super pretty way. I don't think it's possible to take a bad photo of them. I ended up hositing a photo group on Flickr just for helenium flowers because they are so beautiful. They are even super easy and fun to seed save from - seeds pop right off without fuss. AND they are long lived and perennial to zone 3. Oh, and they propagate easily by division so that once you have a favorite color you can divide it and make a garden full of clones if you like. I also think that they are likely to be a hot item for gardenweb seed and plant trading. Unless everyone who reads this ends up growing their own. :) Lynda Here is a link that might be useful: Slideshow from Flickr Helenium group

Stephen, There are 3 golden mutations from 'Danica' availlable in here in Holland: 'Amber Glow' 'Danica Gold' 'Miriam' 'Danica Gold' I bought it at a gardencentre in Boskoop without any furthur information. 'Miriam' is from the Visser Brothers from the North of Holland. There's a patent on this plant. I only have the 'Amber Glow' and the 'Danica Gold'. The 'Amber Glow' is a much more golden yellow then the 'Danica Gold' and will burn in the full afternoon sun. The 'Danica Aurea' is a greenish-yellow and doesn't burn in the sun, it also do have a more rounded shape.

I know that kellyknits had one that she had tentatively labeled as Grey Ghost. It's supposed to have grey flecking that's so dense the leaves appear almost solidly silver-grey. Here's a picture of Kelly's plant. I thought someone else had it, too - maybe they will speak up. I received one from David called carnosa Lime Green* that has really taken off for me lately, so I'm hoping it will bloom soon and I can find out what that's all about. There's a photo of these green blooms here. ** or perhaps Cream One? LOL This post was edited by greedyghost on Thu, May 30, 13 at 17:14

this is where I'm coming from. You teach a kid his ABCs, and vowels. If you threw in on the same lesson, verb tenses, phonetics, sentence structure, etc, the kid would stare blankly, retain nothing and go play with doll, dog or Gameboy. If this weren't true, then we wouldn't have elementary, jr and high schools. Stages of learning, stages of learning, that's what works. I know OP is not a kid, but I think we do a tremendous disservice when we throw in all this knowledge that may intimidate, confuse, discourage newbie. Why not present the data in most practical fashion and let newbie go from there. Sometimes I wonder if some people want the world to know how much they know vs. truly helping a newbie get going. Not accusing anybody here, just wondering. It is not more important to assure them they can do it rather than telling them where, when and how to use a sod roller???? Which BTW, you don't need. first time you run your lawn mower on new lawn, it will do necessary compacting or pressing or whatever you want to call it.