Questions about Cultivars/hybrids

18 years ago

I really enjoy gardening for wildlife, and think using native plants is an important part of that. Aside from a few flats of annuals each year, my plan is to purchase only natives from now on. I live about 20 minutes from Garden in the Woods in Framingham, Mass., and hope to visit there soon.

I've been perusing the Nursery list on the NEWFS website. They sell a number of cultivars such as Heuchera 'Lime Rickey' which I assume is a cultivar of a native species of Heuchera. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that all the Heuchera 'Lime Rickeys' out there are genetically identical since they've been propogated from one original native plant by cuttings or division.

So I'm guessing that nurseries sell many thousands of plants of a really popular cultivar, which are all clones of each other (doesn't seem to do much for genetic diversity). Regardless of how many "copies" of a plant are out there, wouldn't the cultivar of a native plant still be considered native?

Also on the Nursery list is Agastache 'Blue Fortune', which I think is a hybrid of a North American species and a Korean species. Would this plant be considered 50% native and 50% non-native?

Just trying to get a better understanding what "native" means. Thanks.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (3)

ziggy___
18 years ago
This is a very hard question, because it depends on the personal philosophy of the person that you ask. Strictly speaking, native mean something that nature put in your exact location. Some people broaden this to include their entire state, or the whole country even. I just moved back to the Pittsburgh area from the Harrisburg area. These locations are in the same state, but on opposite sides of the Alleghenies. Some natives are the same and some are different. Buckeyes are only found naturally west of the mountains, for instance.
I try to go by a heirarchy as far as my personal definition of native.

1. Historically exists here in the wild and from a local source.

2. Historically exists here from a distant source. Closer being better.

3. Not historically proven to exist here, but possibly did. Arborvitae is a good example. It is proven to be native on all sides of PA, though none of the stands in the wild in PA can be proven to have existed prior to human intervention. I would also include species that are native close by (say 100 mi.) in the same growing conditions and not separated by a natural barrier.

4. Cultivars of the categories listed above.

5. Everything else.

Some hybrids occur naturally and would fit in the normal heirarchy. Others are totally artificial. I come at this from an environmental angle, but some come at this more as an artistic theme for their landscaping or gardening. You have to do some homework and decide what defines "native" for you.

I hope this helps some.

Ziggy
Iris GW
18 years ago
One distinction you might want to make for yourself is when a cultivar is sport of a native and when it is a hybrid (and who are the parents).

For example, Itea virginica 'Little Henry' is a sport of a native plant. It has not been crossed with any other plant (native or not). A sport is a naturally occurring mutation (in this case resulting in a smaller size plant). Note that the species name (virginica) is still included as part of the name. Kalmia latifolia 'Elf' is another such naturally occurring dwarf.

Another example is Lobelia x 'Ruby Slippers'. This is a hybrid between two native plants: L. cardinalis x L. siphilitica. Notice the lack of species name in the offical name. The name in quotes is the cultivar name.

Another example is the dogwood hybrids that were created from C. kousa x florida crosses (non-native crossed with native). Cornus Stellar PinkÂ® (ÂRutganÂ) is one of those.

It gets even more complicated if they then use that hybrid as a parent to yet another hybrid!
Related Discussions
Sources for Hybrid Planetree Cultivars?
Q
Comments (57)
It seems that straight American Sycamore, once it gets past spring anthracnose, has nice, deep green foliage until fairly late in autumn. However, London Plane, at least the commonly planted Bloodgood, around this time every year, is turning yellow brown with significant leaf drop for some reason, I think a combo of the stress of the sycamore lacebug and powdery mildew, but that's just a WAG on my part. Do some of the newer LP cultivars like Columbia, Ovation, and Exclamation avoid this issue?
...See More
questions about various cultivars
Q
Comments (1)
abies balsamea "tyler blue": is it as beautiful as pictures suggest ==>> i dont know.. what pix have you seen??? .. balsamea does not grow everywhere.. where are you in z5???? abies concolor "blue cloak": does anybody have a picture of a mature specimen? is it really a weeper? ==>> mine does not weep [or if it does.. its not very impressive] .. it has the same growth rate as any other blue concolor.. such as candicans .. how old is mature??? 4. picea orientalis "atrovirens": does anybody have a source? ==>> a real bane of mine.. shopping for names is nice.. but not a reality.. in the sense of actually getting the plants ... whats available.. is available.. what isnt.. isnt.... the problem.. for me was.. with no WWW .. books.. which are out of date.. the day they are printed.. that darn van hoey book.. i had a TO DIE FOR LIST an arm long.. and never found a single one for sale ... gee tree has the oldest BLace.. i have been watching it for near 10 years.. if its 15 feet tall ... i would be surprised.... and that is near consistent with its claimed growth rate .... what is 50 feet divided by 1.5 .... ??? ===>>> 33 years to 50 feet ... how old are you ... lol .... just buy whats available.... you may be hanging on to this wish list.. for a decade or so ... you would be better off.. using the descriptors for something like tsuga canadensis "golden splendor" ... and asking for the names of plants that fit the words ... instead of demanding that specific plant .. good luck ken
...See More
Newbie question about Helleborus hybrids
Q
Comments (10)
What you can expect to get depends on the type of hybrids you are dealing with. The oriental hybrids - more correctly Helleborus x hybridus - are those that will self-hybridize freely so are typically sold as seed strains. All that means is that the grower has kept like colored plants separate from other colors. These are sometimes sold as named forms but for the named forms to come true they MUST be propagated clonally or by TC. Seed propagated forms of named xhybridus can deviate quite easily from the parent plants depending on how pollination is controlled. These are the hybrids I would suggest you select while in bloom as that is really the only way you can be assured of a specific color/look. Other hybrids like 'Ivory Prince', 'Pink Marble', 'Cinnamon Snow', 'Pink Ice', 'Candy Love', etc. are quite different and highly controlled hybrids. Typically these are all propagated by tissue culture, as a good many do not/cannot occur naturally but are hybridized by hand over many years of trial and error and with a great deal of expense involved as well. These are most often patented plants as a result. These do not offer the range of color the xhybridus.....most of these flower in the whitish-green range with pink/mauve overtones. And Helleborus niger is a species not a hybrid :-) Flowers of these will always be white, so inevitably come true to form. There ARE named forms of niger, but they have more to do with profusion, timing or height of bloom rather than any difference in coloring.
...See More
question about hybridizing hostas
Q
Comments (12)
There are two lists which may be helpful regarding hosta ploidy. One list is titled Polyploid Hostas. This is a list of the many cultivars which are commonly assumed to be polyploid (i.e., more than diploid). However, not all cultivars which are often thought to be polyploidy necessarily are. For example, 'Blue Mouse Ears' was originally thought to be tetraploid. Testing conducted by Dr. Ben Zonneveld using flow cytometry concluded that BME was merely diploid. The other list titled Hostas Analyzed by Flow Cytometry is probably a more reliable indicator of the ploidy because this is a list of hostas of cultivars which have been tested. (Please note: there is some debate on whether the method of flow cytometry is a suitable method for determining ploidy.) It should be noted that hostas most commonly are diploid...i.e., they have two sets of chromosomes. Some, however, have three sets (triploid), four sets (tetraploid), or even six sets (hexaploid). Others may have a combination of ploidy (as Steve said)...diploid in some layers, while triploid or tetraploid or hexaploid in other layers. This condition is referred to as a "ploidy chimera". And lastly, a few cultivars may be missing some chromosomes in one or more layers. These are referred to as aneuploids. This is probably a lot more information than what you really need to know. Diploids, triploids, tetraploids, and aneuploids can all be cross-pollinated with each other...and there is no definitive answer to what the ploidy of the offspring will be. Generally, however, the pollen sacs on tetraploids are much larger than those on diploids, making them more difficult (but not impossible) to use for cross pollinating with other cultivars.
...See More
westhighlandblue
18 years ago
Cross breeding of natives, which could possibly occur in the wild, is acceptable, for example the L. cardinalis x L. siphilitica. But I'd stay away from any plant that is a hybrid of a native and an exotic, which could not possibly happen in the wild. For instance, the cross, noted above of a kousa and native dogwood.

Questions about Cultivars/hybrids

Comments (3)

ziggy___

Iris GW

Related Discussions

westhighlandblue

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US