Steve, I meant to e=mail you some pictures of my American persimmons growing here in Michigan, but I couldn't figure out how to do it -- not very good with that aspect of the computer. Anyway, yes, they will grow and fruit in partial shade, don't know about deep shade. My one seedling persimmon that was planted many years ago in the shade of a black walnut and a wild black cherry has fruit every year, but the tree is much more "wispy" or "wimpy" than the two just a few dozen feet away that get more sunlight. It is smaller in every respect -- not as tall, not as full, and not as big of a trunk. Meader is the kind of grafted persimmon I have -- great tree, beautiful fruit. I picked a nice crop last fall, very late, around Thanksgiving. Pulped them and froze them for my sister, who makes a persimmon spice bread with them. I only regret that I could harvest about half of the tree, since many of them were too high to reach, and the branches on persimmons are too brittle to pull down on too much. But, I still ended up with probably 20 cups of frozen pulp. I was hoping that the rest of them would fall on their own at some point when I could get them, but we had too much snow to go back there often, and the animals (probably deer) seemed to have eaten them all off of the ground as they fell.

Yates is one of a number of cultivars of American persimmon that appear to fruit parthenocarpically. I say "appear" because even without a known nearby male tree, it's hard to be sure that blossoms are not being pollinated by wild persimmons in nearby forest or by undetected staminate flowers that sometimes appear on female trees of some varieties. Bagging the blossoms would clarify this issue, but even without that, observations I have made suggest that Yates will fruit without pollination. The Yates fruit grown without known pollen sources seldom had more than one or two seeds; this increased to six or more when a male tree was introduced. Also some cultivars in the same location would not fruit at all without a male tree despite heavy blossoming. This is not to say that Yates should be grown without a resident male tree. Pollination will increase the size of the fruit and the yield of the tree. So it depends what you want. But the wild N.C. seedlings probably will be of the 60 chromosome race and will not provide genetically compatible pollen for the 90 chromosome Yates. If you decide to provide pollen for your Yates, you'd probably be best off adding a grafted 90 chromosome male or a Szukis persimmon, which will flower much sooner than would a male 90 chromosome seedling. I would not find it difficult to divide all the American persimmon trees that I've seen into two groups: those with smaller, light green leaves and those with larger, somewhat glossy leaves. The former are typical of wild trees I've seen growing in southern and eastern states and the latter of named varieties and seedlings of those varieties, mostly with origins in the midwest. So it's tempting to assume that these groups correspond to the two different races of persimmons, and while that probably is mostly accurate, I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion.

It seems like the experiences of persimmon growers are not consistent, and mine will add more inconsistencies to the information. I live in East Tn., the native persimmon trees appear to be 60C. I have gotten fruit from at least 8 90C trees, and all are seedless. There have been a few exceptions, because I have a male hybrid at another location, and I have hand pollinated certain flowers to get hybrid seeds. The flowers that I do not pollinate all make seedless fruit. As for taste and size, mine are all seedless so I have no fruit on the same tree to compare either. I did get a few Yates that had one seed, from my hand pollination, but when I ate them I was not paying attention to the size or flavor. I also have a different view on the belief that a 60C male is required to produce a seedless 90C fruit. I have gotten seedless 90C fruit in the swampy areas of South Louisiana, where there are no wild persimmon growing. And the same for the Chestnut belief, there are no Chestnuts growing in the swamps. Kentucky State says that sometimes a 60 can produce a seeded 90, I have never had that happen, and Clifford England has never seen it either. About rootstocks, I have both 60 and 90, and am not sure if a 60 will add dwarfing characteristics. Male trees are more vigorous, so maybe a female as a rootstock would induce some dwarfing. I believe I was told by Jerry Lehman that if flowers are bagged, there will be no fruit to form. So it seems that in order to have a seedless fruit, a bee or some insect must visit the flower, and going by my experience, if 60C male pollen is not deposited by the bee, then what is happening? Benny I

Hi! I don't have any of the cultivars, but we have wild persimmons growing on our property. I know that if you have only one persimmon that you will get fruit, only no seeds. Ours get some shade, but mostly sun.