Have you read any of Euell Gibbons' works? You really really should. He'll inspire you.

I've been reading a lot of wild plant guides lately, but haven't ordered any of Gibbons' stuff. I won't turn my nose up to most wild foods =), so I'm sure I will like what he has to say.

I have plenty of information, I'm just so anxious to get started. I can't wait to hear about everyone here and their adventures hunting outdoor natives this spring.

Gibbons had an inate understanding about edible foods. Somehow it was part of his nature and he spent his lifetime sharing what he had come to understand. Read his writings. I'm guessing that you could find at least some of his thoughts at your library.

I went ahead and ordered Wild Asparagus used on Amazon after your first response. I'll let you know what I think... thanks for the advice Momamamo... any sensible naturalist is welcome in my library =)

I am starting to incorporate more wild food into my diet and have become curious as to actually how much, at least in times of the year through november to march or april, of my total calories could realisitically forage / catch at my level of experience. I have plenty of time to spend searching for and harvesting these foods.

On whose land are you planning to forage? If it is your own land (you have lots and lots of acreage perhaps) then you should also be considering what to plant to have more available in the future. If it's not your land, foraging would be wrong and in the case of local/state/federal parks you would be taking food from the wildlife that lives there.

"On whose land are you planning to forage? If it is your own land (you have lots and lots of acreage perhaps) then you should also be considering what to plant to have more available in the future. If it's not your land, foraging would be wrong and in the case of local/state/federal parks you would be taking food from the wildlife that lives there."

Is it my fault I've been born into a "typical midwestern" financial situation, with parents uninterested in land / nature? I don't plan on going to college for a piece of paper and people's confidence when between the internet and Amazon.com I have all the written knowledge and community support I could ever hope for. I am 21 years old, and currently trapped in the class of "working poor". If I work 30 hours a week making people tuna salad sandwiches I'll make about 120 dollars.... if I work any more than that it isn't even worth my time to be there, because i end up having no time to do any type of research. Do you understand my situation?

Part of learning to forage, whether it be on my property or the pope's, is trying to observe the natural balance of the ecosystem. I wouldn't go on someone else's land and clear out a whole patch of wild strawberries until the area looked bare. I feel like most of the area around here has probably lost some of it's diversity from people who don't care about all this water / air pollution. I do, and I don't like to be told that I can't go out into the woods and collect food for myself. Why have we taken paradise and seperated it into invisible lines with no tresspassing signs?

go ahead and shoot the unarmed forager if you want, haha. at least it might cause some "political" attention and stir your conscience.

If I did have my own land I would love to incorporate new wild natives into the ecosystem and watch things change and develop over the years... but unless i make it big that doesn't seem to be an option =(.

remembrance. . . you seem to be looking for an easy way out of a tough situation. Living off the land may seem romantic, but it is going to ultimately present you with more problems than solutions. Where are you going to go when you break a bone or pick up Lymes disease, or find yourself without shelter in below-freezing weather?

Esh is asking a question that you should seriously consider. What are you going to do when an irritated property owner or national park throws you out or takes you to court for trespassing or theft, or for eating something that was endangered and protected?

You need to get your life together from the other end before indulging in a foraging hobby. This doesnÂt mean that you have to forsake your love of the land while you flip burgers. Get a job in a nursery or in a national park. Save your money and study botany or natural history, or become a Master Gardener. Your interest in living off the land is exciting and could lead you to any number of fascinating careers if you are willing to do the work.

You arenÂt trapped in any particular way of life just because your parents are suburbanites. You are an adult now, you are free of your parents, and it is your responsibility to pick your own path for your future that can cover desires as well as your needs and the needs of the law. DonÂt use your upbringing as an excuse to live a teenagerÂs fantasy. There are names for what you are considering: "unemployed" and possibly "homeless".

Good luck remembrance  you have a good future ahead of you, if you make the right choices.

Native Americans to a large extent were farmers. Beans, corn, and squash were a frequently used combination which they called the three sisters. Corn is one of the finest examples of selective breeding by any human culture. Ground nut was also an important vegetable crop. For some tribes wild rice was, and still is to some extent, a major component of their diet.

I think some people may be concerned that you could take to utilizing plants that are edible but rare, making them novel but not very sustainable. There are many such plants that occur in woodlands and other habitats. Cattails are said to be one of the better wild foods because they are abundant and nutritious. It would also be wise to look into the current state of knowledge regarding the toxicity of North American native plants. Many plants that were once widely consumed, like sassafras and bracken fern, are now known to contain carcinogenic compounds (safrole and ptaquiloside, repectively).

Some of the best wild foods are actually the introduced weeds that occupy lawns, waste ground and fields. Dandelions are very nutritous and not too bitter early in the spring. There is also burdock, japanese knotweed, wild carrot, chickweed, garlic mustard, lamb's quarter, purslane, plantain, ect.

I believe that you can obtain permits for gathering wild fruits in the state of Wisconsin. You might want to see what the policies are in your state for collecting on state land. Overall I would say that wild food are not very sustainable, for you or the plants. Cultivated crops have much higher energy value and take up less land. I know that in saying that you may be thinking that agriculture currently occupies much of the land, but that is because there are so many people on Earth now. We would not be able to sustain such a large human population without cultivated crops.

Of course you will soon find that you are unable to forage for all of your food at anytime of the year. And because you have low self image and no ambition you will soon find yourself with three squares and a bunk for breaking lots of laws so you will not have to do any addtional foraging at least for the time of your sentence. You must pay attention to the laws such as hunting and fishing seasons. Plants that are forbidden to be removed from an area, etc. You only think you are above any restraints.

It is your fault that you are 21 with few prospects because you did not take advantage of your past learning and life experiences except to become a dreamer with out a trust fund to provide for you.

lycopus,

thanks for the practical information. I am planning on planting corn, sunflowers, tomatoes, and cucumbers this year using the bio-intensive method, and will most definitely expand to other crops next season.

maifleur,

you sound like you'd like to come lock me up, right now... i have "prospects", lol... my high school transcripts ans SAT scores would impress any state school, and i'm sure i wouldn't have a hard time getting into most out-of-state schools. i could still go to most colleges if i felt like it, but where is the economy going to be in the next 6 years after i get a degree in botany or some type of environmental plant studies? i think at this point it is more practical for me to learn directly from nature by foraging and planting crops.

bullthistle,

wikipedia?
forums?
amazon.com is the biggest extension if you don't mind forking out some real $ for ANY BOOK YOU WANT.

I think for some people college is a great option, but I want to hunt, find, and grow my own food and (hopefully, eventually) teach others in need to do the same. If there is any hope for this planet it lies in the people who can peacefully teach others how to become self-sustaining once more (whether it be on one side of domestication or the other). That is why I am here.... but I guess in the future I will only post more specific questions.

I need to get to work, but I will hopefully be able to chat more later. I didn't mean to offend any of you...

If you want to grow and hunt your own food, that sounds great. The problem is when it sounds like you want to disregard the fact every piece of land in this country is owned by someone (and sometimes that someone is the government). You have to have permission to grow/hunt/find on private property.

The Native Americans had thousands of acres to roam, most of it virgin forests and prairies (sure they cleared some land for living and growing). There might have been a sense of ownership (as in the tribe owned it) but it wasn't like we have today (even if you don't agree with that concept).

You also have to consider that much of that land that was so suitable for hunting and foraging has been destroyed ... first for the concept of growing (farmers) and then later for houses and cities. That makes the concept of "foraging" on the remaining land much for sensitive. Harvesting things on a scale large enough to consume them as food or medicine now depletes the remaining plants at a faster rate.

So, by all means, go your own way ... but be respectful of private property because, like it or not, that's the way the world works today.

remembrance:

you sound like you have a real interest in native habitats and cultures. I'd encourage you to keep developing your interest. As far a careers, please consider contacting your local state parks system, forestry service, or the National Park Service. You may want to start with some volunteer efforts -- many of these groups are underfunded, and would welcome volunteers. They usually do require a training period and your commitment to a regular schedule.

It'd be great for you to share your keen interest in the natural world with others, and with some study, go on to a career in environmental science, etc.

I'm former NPS myself, and believe me, I had a wonderful group of colleagues to work with. The NPS looks for intelligent, decicated, and disciplined people who are willing to learn.

Best wishes.

Hi Remembrance: I support Doriang's post about career choices. I'd also like to remind you that college, in addition to learning academic subjects, also offers lessions in learning about yourself. There are plenty of challenges in college, not the least of which is learning things you thought you didn't "need". You could major in biology, then do the NPS thing. This country needs dedicated park professionals. You could link all of your interests into a great challenging job where you could also generate income.

Florrie

Hi Remembrance,
I'll start out by saying I'm a strong advocate of property rights, so I definitely want you to get permission for foraging. I remember my father as a hunter would spend several days each year visiting farmers before hunting season in order to gain their permission to hunt on their property. He sat with them and visited for a while, gaining their confidence in his intentions and his integrity, and I think there may have been only one person in his entire hunting career who turned him down. He pretty much had free run of our corner of the state (North Dakota), and he freely followed game across property boundaries for miles upon miles. Once in a while he actually acted as a game warden of a sort when he saw other hunters treating the land with disrespect -- he told the landowner about the incident so they would be aware about trespassers/disrespectful behavior. Part of it was his desire to promote decent behavior, and part of it was self-protection, because he didn't want the farmer to think it had been he who behaved with disrespect.

When he visited with the farmers he also mentioned how they would benefit from his hunting of varmints on their property. He hunted fox and other furbearers and the farmers did not mind having those critters harvested from their land. The thought occurred to me that you also might benefit owners just by walking around and keeping your eyes open for irregularities or, for example, noticing and reporting people who might be trashing their place with cigarette butts or beer cans. Picking up trash for the owners would also be a benefit that you could bargain with.

I relate his experience because I think it would be very easy for you to gain permission for your pursuits from private landowners if you treat them with respect and dignity. How you treat them will show them how you will treat their land -- and I want to make a philosophical/spiritual point as well. If it is in your character to treat the owner with cavalier disregard and take advantage of his stewardship, then it seems likely that your character might lead you to treat the land with disregard and to take advantage of its fruitfulness without considering its sustainability.

I think rather than following that path, Remembrance, from what you are saying it seems to me that you have consideration and respect for the land and its abundance. So I think it would express your inner nature for you to extend that consideration and respect to those others of god's creatures: the landowners. They probably have much in common with you in their love of wild places, since they have chosen to support such.

For the next point I'll also start with a personal experience. When I first got married, we were so broke I was worried we might starve. So we gardened a little plot in a community garden and put up lots of canned and frozen veggies. What an experience! Well, we made it through the winter without starving and I learned a lot about preserving. Since then, community gardening has been blossoming. I bet you would find one near you. You would probably be able to trade your time and sweat during the growing season to other community gardeners in exchange for them preserving food for you at the end of the season. Organic community gardening has been surging lately.

I have more to say about your non-college path and about the practical aspects of your questions after contacting a friend of mine who probably has a good idea about such, but this post is already quite long. And I'd like to know: would you commit to gaining permission from landowners before harvesting from their land?

Hey remembrance! Ive been thinking about you and your predicament ever since I replied to you yesterday. Just in case you are wondering, you havent offended me in any way; and I hope my bluntness has not put you off. I only mean to help.

About college: I share your disdain for attending a school for that bloody piece of paper. I am an artist and game designer by profession two areas which dont require a degree, thank goodness. But I did get a bachelors degree in illustration not for the piece of paper, but for the education itself. And I realized during my college experience that if I stuck to the official regimen of courses, then I would not be adequately prepared for the career that I wanted. So I had to mess with the system in order to get the classes that I needed in other departments, and I had to supplement my official education with classes outside of college and with my own research.

Having been through that bit of educational off-roading, I have to say more students would benefit by taking such control of their education. And you are in a prime position to do such off-roading. The key is to realistically and thoroughly identify your career and life goals, and then figure out what it will take to get you there. You are already doing that; just dont be so hasty to exclude the possibility of college or college-level classes.

About foraging. . . I think your aim of "trying to observe the natural balance of the ecosystem" is romantic, but a bit misguided if you are thinking of doing it for more than research purposes. The reason for this is that (property ownership aside) there are too many people and not enough wild land for any significant portion of the population to live by foraging without trashing the remaining populations of wild edibles. I absolutely agree that people need to do a better job of living in harmony with nature, but in order for the current population to do that, agriculture is necessary.

That said, there is a need for people to keep and perpetuate knowledge about our lesser-known wild and native edibles, both to ensure that such plants are not accidentally pushed to extinction, but also to find ways that they can be brought back to the attention and use of the public. One plant that springs to mind is the ramp, a wild and native leek. This one farm has made a business of growing them: http://www.rampfarm.com/ In parts of North America, the ramp is very rare now, due to it being foraged instead of farmed.

Perhaps such a farm is in your future, too.

I've been thinking about what has been said thus far and the way I responded at the time. It is just such a shame that we have "agricultured" America to oblivion. How did our ancestors not see that things were so out of balance =(? It seems like no matter what we've got a long journey ahead of us restoring the Earth and all of the ecosystems suffered. We're all in this together, right? All *****ing and moaning aside, it is an exciting time considering how much work we have ahead of us =). I think people will begin to (like myself) see how the health of the environment is a direct reflection of our own health.

I will keep in mind land-rights on my foraging expeditions from this point on. Woodsfairy, I don't think I will have a hard time making my intentions known to the land-owners, and I feel like offering to pick up trash would be a great way to pay the land-owner back for letting me forage. I understand what you all are saying about foraging potentially destroying our frail, blotted woodlands if done heedlessly... I need to stop acting like I must be the only one who has envy of the way the Native Americans were able to live.

I am looking for ways to get involved with this whole scene, and I am not ruling college out at some point, but I feel getting involved with the people and parks around here is my best bet at this point. It all just takes a little time, right? I tend to get defensive about college and "ambition" pretty quickly... It seems like most of the people I talk to don't care WHAT I go to college for, as long as I'm being a good boy and going.... as old schoolmates and their parents visit town from campuses across the globe they treat me as if I must just be sitting around getting drunk in a hole.

I've been bringing home 5 gallon buckets of organic waste from work and creating a monstrous compost pile for about 4 months now, planting some trees, and getting ready to put some heavy calorie crops into the soil so far... so I do have some agricultural ambition, but I like time to just go hiking, explore new places and read as well.

Thanks for all the advice / heads-up folks.

Hi remembrance --

Thanks for the reply. You might want to check out some of Henry David Thoreau's writings as well; I think you'd enjoy them.

We're all here because we love the earth...so keep us posted. I'm going to go turn my compost pile just now too (finally a warm day in up here in Northern NYS). Best wishes...

"I tend to get defensive about college and "ambition" pretty quickly... It seems like most of the people I talk to don't care WHAT I go to college for, as long as I'm being a good boy and going...."

Haha! :) Dont let them get to you. Our society is pretty wacky about college right now, and many people just cant shake the silly notion that more college is always better, even if some of those gawdafully expensive years are just spent partying. You sound like you are doing a good job at finding your own path. Be confident in yourself, so that when you do get pestered for varying from the norm, you can grin and explain your plan. (And its okay to have a plan that includes "try this and see what comes of it"!)

Keep us posted, and good luck! :)

In my half century plus of life I have known several individuals with the mind set that you provided in your first post. Since I am from the 'drop in drop dead" era my post was what most of them found out about that after spending time behind bars for lots of different foraging crimes, some real, some made up, a different lifestyle change was in order. I am not saying that you would actually do hard crime but what you mentioned doing will in most states earn you time.

Some found out that with their experiences they could do anything. Others were locked out of many things.

My best friend does not have a college degree and has run several organizations. But currently if you want to have something other than three squares in the future a degree is almost a necessity. Notice I said Degree. The Degree does not have to be from a four year school, but to even be acceptable to be looked at unless you are dating the bosses daughter you need the paper.

Take some time and try legally to do what you wish to do but give yourself a deadline. If by say 25-28 you are happy doing what you are doing. Fine.

I hope you have some success at what you are trying but remember a change in plans is not success or failure.

Foraging for food should only be an act of desperation, not a practice of sustainability. Today's reality with the convenience of the marketplace that provides adequate sources of nutrition while allowing for the time to develop other aspects or gifts of the human psyche is the best choice for a creative mind. Foraging has never been an adequate source of nutrition as it only provides minimal, if that, levels of nutrition throughout the year. That is why different American Indian tribes engaged in various forms of agriculture which provided the ability of the tribes to obtain solid nutrition and served as a basis for tribal success.
It sounds to me that your best choice will be sustainance farming, something which I had sought to do at one point in my life. However, a commitment to this kind of lifestyle is 24/7 to a life centered around the kitchen.
Caring for the animals, the crops, harvesting, preserving, and all the associated amenities require the resources of a group of people, not an individual.
For this reason I would think that a communal experience might be in your best interest.
Check the link below for more information.

Dear Remembrance,
I'm glad to know you'll ask for permission! Stoloniferous has already stated a lot of what my input would have been regarding college. I think a college degree for the sake of the degree is a bad plan. That kind of philosophy applied far enough will lead you to a life of bondage.

On the other hand, several of my friends have no college or one year of college, and these people live and understand liberty. They often work in the trades. Some examples are concrete construction and house painting. They live simply yet comfortably, but then they are not out to spend money on status symbols and escapist technology.

The researchers who wrote The Millionaire Mind found that the number one benefit of a college education was NOT the information or knowledge -- it was the PEOPLE who were met during the college experience.

One very good friend went to college for a year and found it wasn't his bag. He did like some people he met there -- that was the highlight of his experience. He is almost entirely self-educated and is a successful farmer now. (He grew up on his dad's farm and owns it now.) He's the one I'm trying to contact about your questions on practicality. (His phone's been busy.)

Another very close friend was enamored with plants, so went to college for a year to learn about horticulture. He was very disappointed with the experience (he said they taught about nomenclature but they didn't foster the love of plants). He still loves plants and just recently discovered the Garden Web! He's a house painter who works a few hours a day a few days a week and likes his leisure.

Do follow your own path, Remembrance. Living free is so important to living happy and finding fulfillment.

~ Woodsfairy

Just talked to my friend H about practical foraging. He said it's hard to tell by looking at a nut whether it's good unless it's a hickory where you can see if worms have bored into it. Spring is a bad time for getting nuts -- all the good ones have been taken by the wild critters. Fall is the time for nutting. You're in competition with the squirrels and lots of other animals, so isn't easy. Taste test is the only way to find out.

The way H talked it sounded like foraging is an interesting way to supplement your diet. But it didn't sound like it would really cover one's needs. For one thing, walking around the woods is work itself. A factoid I ran across (don't know how true it is) is that early settlers used around 12,000 calories a day because they worked so hard!

My personal note - I think if you'd find a place where you got good pickins, you might end up cultivating to optimize the productivity. H is collecting wild ramps and planting them in his garden - he eats the greens, not the bulb.

Sounded like foraging would have more potential as a hobby rather than a career. Oh, one other thing... I mentioned my tight quarters for vegetable gardening and he suggested the roof. Is that possible for you to have a container garden of vegetables on the roof if you don't have much ground space?

Best of luck to you, Remembrance.

The original post(below) mentioned late fall and through early spring.

"how much, at least in times of the year through november to march or april, of my total calories could realisitically forage / catch at my level of experience. "

The statement in quotes is one of the reasons I mentioned not being able to forage legally because of the various hunting and fishing rules. Along with the snow, if he is in the Ohio River Valley, that would make most wild fruit and vegetables unavailable.

Hello to you all

My kids and I had to live on top of a hill surrounded by 100 or so acres (that belonged to my late ex husband's grandmother). We had no home, no money,nothing to our name except a car that eventually got taken back. We had a tent and an old run down camper that had been up there since my husband was a kid. Our kids stayed in that and we in the tent. Most of what we eat for that year came from what I could find in those woods that were edible. We did get foodstamps but when you dont have a fridge there aint much that you can keep for long when it is a hundred degrees out. We cooked on an open fire using my cast iron pans that my parents gave me when I first married. Alot of what I knew about living off the land came from what I had learned as a kid from my family and from reading. I am far from being a city girl and my anxieties make living where I am now hard especially being a single mom. My kids loved living up on that hillside. No electricity, no video games, just nature. My son was healther than he'd ever been. I finally broke down and using only a hand saw began cutting trees down to debark and build a cabin. It took me 6 mo. to do this with little help from my mother-in-law and husband. We lived a total of a year this way. Though my marriage wasnt great and he spent no time with our kids. My kids and I we happy. I homeschooled both of them during this time and they learned more then than what they are now in public school. I had a controlling husband who was controlled by his mother. My kids and I went through more mental and verbal abuse than any kid should. I finally got the courage up to divorce him when my 9 yr look at me and said, "mommy its time. Its not right how daddy treats us or you." By this time we had just bought a 60 acre farm and I found courage from my kids to tell him I wanted a divorce. I almost lost everything. When it was all said and done We had lost the farm for he wouldnt give me time to find a job ( stay at home mom for ten yrs). Our 9 yr old daughter lost her 2 horses, 6 dogs, and 4 cats. She took care of them her self. up 6 am feed them 1st then herself and would go out and spend time with all of them (rain, snow, sun, 12degree to 100 degree weather didnt matter.)
I know what it is like to want to go back to that time on the hill. But we dont have the land nor the money. We still go through the woods with permission. We collect seeds to continue the growth of the wild and If there is plenty we will dig a plant or two up and replant them by the house. Most of my garden has come from the woods near by and the rd side. We still go out to find edible but we watch what we take and we try to give back to keep it going.
So rembrance consider collecting a few of the plants (provided there is plenty and not endagered. with permission) put them in pots and grow your own. (easiest done with perenial plants) Collect seeds and start your own. Just a suggestion from three who enjoys being in nature and live the way we feel we were supose to. I am just glade to have my kids. The judge listened to what they had to say.
As for the colledge degree, I dont even have a high school diploma. Though after my divorce I have been trying. One day My anxieties, panic attacks,and partial siezures will not controll me.

sidhe_drui,

wow, you sound like you've sucessfully risen above so many tests of will and personal strength for your children and yourself. that is sad to hear about your nine year old girl losing all of her animals... it is too bad your husband couldn't be more of a man to your family, although I'm sure you all are much stronger now, regardless.

I really do like your idea of transplanting in pots. I was thinking I could even use litered containers people have decided to throw out. It is best to start small. I know where a few healthy patches of various plants like milweed, asparagus, and other more common wild greens grow around here I could try.

Your children are only better for what they've been through. I envy the type of education you were able to provide for them, highschool diploma or none.... and good luck with your garden and homesteading. If you have time for Yoga, Tai Chi, or even simple breathing exercises they are worth a shot. For me, I know simply focusing all my concentration on my breath, letting thoughts come and go, rather than the negative exeperiences / trace impressions and pain in my life keep me sane in this sometimes insane world, haha.

Thanks again and God Bless

remembrance

thank you... we are still in a trying time but managing.

We use a lot of containers we and others would normally thow out. For seed starting the 'to go' containers that fazoli's use work great and soup cans. The plastic containers ice cream comes in is great for small plants. and if you have a small yard old tires work well too. oh egg cartons work great also for starting seeds.

Hope I could help a little.
Have a great day.... and remember just breath and smile it has to get better

Here's a couple more wild food books for you to check out:

Peterson's Field Guides: Edible Wild Plants by Lee Allen Peterson
Stalking the Wild Asparagus by Euell Gibbons
Identifying and Harvesting Edible and Medicinal Plants in Wild (and Not So Wild) Places by "Wildman" Steve Brill with Evelyn Dean
Billy Joe Tatum's Wild Food Field Guide and Cookbook ed. by Helen Witty
Native Harvests by E. Barrie Kavasch
And to some extent, Spirit of the Harvest by Martin Jacobs and Beverly Cox

I have all these books and can say that they are all good. They all have different formats and character about them. It is good to have different books on the same topic.

As far as paying major $$$ for books, first try the library. The public library system is one of the great things in the old US of A and it is free. If that doesn't help, I got a word for you, USED. Look for used books and save yourself tons of cash. BTW, I call them pre-loved books!

Final note, please learn about the plants you intend to harvest before harvesting. We must all be stewards of our planet and wild places. Harvesting native plants that are already being challenged for survival is a crime. There are too many other edibles that are not challenged or are invasives/non-native to ever harvest anything threatened.

Enjoy the sources!

FataMorgana

ps....a veggie garden even a small one can produce a surprising amount of good-tasting and good-for you food. Think about doing that too if you are looking for a self-supporting way of life. Heirloom and open-pollinated varieties of seed can be saved from one year's harvest to the next.

Find les stroud he will tell what to eat and what not to eat www.lesstroud.com or give him a call he lives in ca na d a

sweet, he sells bandanas and t-shirts!