I get what you're saying, Ken. I used the word "fedge" unthinkingly, making an assumption that it was a term for a willow hedge, rather than a type of espalier like fencing. What I want is a willow hedge that flowers and that I can maintain at 6 -7 feet tall in an area that, as explained, tends to be much drier after the spring runoff, but is moist enough to have supported my orchard adequately. I plan to put it down only one leg of the orchard rectangle , about 5 trees deep so it won't be huge. I'm out pruning fruit trees, bushes, vines and roses yearly so that's not that big of a deal for me to take care of willows in hedge form. I just want to make sure that the types I choose will be amenable to controlled bushiness and OK with just average moisture cause that's all they'll be getting once established.

Don't make the mistake that I did. I ordered some black willow cuttings (there were at least a dozen) from someone on ebay. She/he had the cuttings wrapped in damp newspapers (I assume) and wrapped in plastic. When they got here they looked dead, but I thought I'd give them a chance. I left them in water for probably two months and they didn't do a thing. I emailed the person and explained what happened and never heard back from them. I guess it's not like you get your money back from those people if you get defective goods, so I don't know what I thought I'd accomplish by emailing the person. It didn't cost me a fortune, but still, I could have better spent that $13 or $14 (the shipping is what kills a person). Since then, I got a few saplings from a very nice person here on the forum and they are doing great. I don't know how fast they grow, but I'm hoping that I can attract some Viceroys, which I haven't yet seen here. There are several others that I've seen here but I would like to also get to see the cats...those being Eastern Comma, Eastern Tiger Swallowtail, Mourning Cloak, and Red-spotted Purple. Cathy

One question I would ask Ann is how the property was maintained in the past 10 - 20 years. This would give some information about what recent practices have left the woods as they currently are. If you like the way they are, you could just keep doing the same. To my mind it's more complicated than that. Yes, I like the woods the way they are (and I don't know much about what's been done in the past years except I think relatively nothing). However, even though I 'like' the woods now, I do not know if their current condition and if doing nothing is best for the long term health of the woods. I truly feel that we are the stewards of this land, not the owners, and I asked this question to try to find out how best to care for the land and return it as much as possible to its native state. One thing that is obvious to me from the discussion above is that I need to learn more. You all use terms that I am not sure of, and differentiate between bottom land woodlands andother woodlands, and talk about disturbance ecology...I need to learn more. I assume you call my area bottom land because its along the river? For what its worth, someone mentioned an overabundance of maples - that is not the problem here. Maples don't grow on our side of the river, too alkaline. Box elders do, and we do have some box elders, but my impression (which may be wrong) is that those are native. There are not a lot of them. Do any of you have suggestions for good informative books that would help me learn about forest ecology? Or is this such a huge topic that I would need to go back to school :) ? We do get erosion of the bank. We also get flooding pertty much every spring (and sometimes, such as this year, during the summer too). If the flooding is only spring thaw flooding, it doesn't seem to affect the plants too much. However if it is a summer flood, essentially all of the undergrowth is killed. It will be back next year, but for now there is not that beautiful green understory that the pictures above show. This discussion is interesting to me. As I say, I need to learn more, but you are giving me ideas of WHAT I need to learn. Ann

I got a Clethra alnifolia (wild type, not a cultivar) in March. It has so far done very well in the 5 gallon pot I put it in. I'll be planting it in the ground whenever it finally starts getting cooler here (so that I won't have to water every day). It covered itself in hundreds of tiny blooms in June/July, but didn't start opening any until August. I think that's later than typical for Clethra, though. When it did finally start opening, I liked that only a few of the "spikes" of flowers (can't think of the proper name for that flowering arrangement off the top of my head...botany was two years ago!) at a time. Since it didn't open all of them at once, it's still blooming now and still has some yet unopened buds to keep it blooming for a while longer. It's got a really lovely scent that's not overpowering. The only thing I dislike about it is that it's got a very scrawny habit...but that very well could be because it's been grown in a pot since it was a seedling. I think the Eleagnus the previous owners of this house planted next to the steps is going to meet an untimely demise so that the Clethra can take its place and next year I'll be able to smell it from the front porch when it blooms. I've been wanting an excuse to kill that Eleagnus, but I've been focusing most of my energy so far on trying to kill all the Jap. honeysuckle in my yard since it's got berries and the Eleagnus doesn't. Anyway, that's been my short experience with Clethra alnifolia...not sure how it would fare in your neck of the woods but it's been a very low-care, no muss no fuss kind of plant for me so far. It does not seem to be bothered by dry spells of two or three weeks, and I haven't seen any signs of disease or stress. As far as wildlife value, one reason I wanted it was because the Georgia Wildlife Federation says, "Wildlife Benefits: Flowers provide nectar to bees, hummingbirds, and butterflies. Seeds are eaten by a variety of birds and small mammals." Still waiting to see seeds and see what kind of "variety" of animals will visit.