You are making sense to me. And, while I'm no bean expert, I have noticed extreme differences in flavor with herbs - depending on what soil they are growing in, how much rain, etc. Not only have I noticed the difference from place to place where I've lived, but also where I live now. The herbs in pots never taste as good as the herbs in the ground. So, I would think it would definitely have an effect on veggies. I've also grown the same variety of tomato as my local organic farm and theirs taste much better. Hrrmph! :-(

As for flowers, it seems to be the same as well. I have a few things that came as starts from friends. In my yard, some of them are completely different colors than they were at my friends houses. For example, instead of a medium bright pink, it might be pale Lavender instead.

So, yes, I think the trick is to find a variety that does well and tastes good for you. It could be a completely different ball game down the road a ways, lol.

Ruthie, I am not impressed with the flavor of Rattlesnake. I like the flavor of Kentucky Wonder, Tobacco Worm, Blue Marbutt, and Fortex.

Growing conditions seem to have less influence on bean flavor than genetics. I have had excellent flavored beans from a wide variety of soil types over the years. Flavor does not seem to be significantly affected by heat, but stress from lack of water does seem to change the flavor a bit.

I've trialed several hundred different varieties of beans over the years and have about 8 that I really like. Rattlesnake just does not quite make the grade for me flavorwise. It is still a terrific bean with topnotch heat tolerance and production.

DarJones

Oh, Ruthie, I forgot to say that I remember reading a post from you a while back about the Rattlesnakes and I have them on my list to grow next year. Didn't you say that they did very well through the heat of summer?

Do you eat them as a green bean, shelley, or dried? They sell them dried at Sun Harvest.

I think you're right. Nature and nurture both play a part.

One of my favorite tomatoes is Cherokee Purple. I've seen others say it wasn't that great. I bet it's a climate thing, since the people that don't like it seem to be from up north. On the other hand, brandywine isn't very popular around here as far as tomatoes go. Just can't take the heat. Wouldn't surprise me other crops would be the same.

Another good example are those super-sweet onions. Those aren't just genetically sweet, they're also grown in soil that's especially poor in sulfur. Without sulfur, onions can't make the eye-stinging compounds no matter how hard they try!

As for more local variations? That's possible as well, for instance if you live near where one soil type ends and another begins. The town I live in straddles a faultline, so the west side of town is hilly and rocky with very shallow soil, and the east side is flat prairie with deep soil. In some places you can see the contrast sharply enough you can pretty much straddle the faultline. And then there's whatever the actual gardener does to their garden and plants on top of that.

So when I hear people praise a certain variety, I check where they're from, at the very least. If they're growing it in a radically different soil and climate, I figure that's almost useless for me to know what they think of it. What it does in my garden may be completely different than what it does in theirs.

trsinc ...yes I have posted about how great the Rattlesnake does for me. I loved the taste and even during the worst of the heat of our hellish summer weather, I still had to pick Rattlesnakes every other day and sometimes every day. I am growing a few other varities this year to compare but I have some rattlesnakes too.

Now I'm wondering if I should give Rattlesnake another try. I was in a cool climate when I grew it before.

So, how do you eat them? Green Bean? I can't wait to try them next year.

I love pintos as a shelley so I might like these the same way...

I used them for green beans and toward the end of the year I left them to go to shellies. I just love beans and I eat them in any form and cooked in any way. I actually buy dried beans and cook and can them so that I have them on the shelf ready to eat at a moment's notice. I have them in my freezer too....I dry them and keep them in canning jars in my pantry that I vac seal.

For me all beans are either snap beans or garbage. I can't stand shelly beans or dry bean. Lentils and garbanzos are OK, but not the usual sorts of dry bean.

I cook green beans many ways and eat them raw in salads or for snacks too.

I was surprised at the different things I've read about Rattlesnake poles. Opinions seem to be wildly varied. I think they may do better in the south than in the north. I can let you know at the end of summer (at least about how they grow in the north)! I'm growing them for the first time this year. So far at least germination rates have been good!

Booberry, Rattlesnake grows like gangbusters in the North. You will enjoy growing it. They are great fresh or cooked.

I plan to grow Rattlesnakes for the first time later this summer in southern California, so I will let you guys know how they do for us. I have observed growing conditions affect the taste and texture of peas so much! Not sure about beans though. I have a bed for them, still have to build them a trellis (and wait for the sunflowers to be done that are in the space at the moment). I think it is good timing to plant later if they are a hot weather bean, it has been in the 60s here. The okra and watermelons look like mopey teenagers but the other pole beans in that species are doing really well (Kentucky wonder, Garafal oro, Gold of Bacau, purple peacock). The pole limas and pole cow peas look less enthusiastic. So many pole beans, so little time....

This is my first year doing pole beans, So Im doing Rattlesnake and Fortex , Just from all the talk from all the great people here. They are on 3 cattle panel bent in an arch, and I cant wait till I can eat one. I just had to pipe in and say I'm in on trying Rattlesnake

Hurray! Glad to read that Happyday!

Well ruthie, after reading your post on Rattlesnake beans last year I decided to try them.

These were planted May 11, and after a slow but steady start, seem to be doing pretty well. I've never grown any type of pole bean before, only bush ones, so I'm looking forward to the tasting!

I think individual taste probably plays the greater part. I know, back in the 80s a number of friends all recommended a bean called Simpson, from the Seed Savers Exchange. They all raved about it. When I grew it I could hardly handle eating it at all. The texture was such that it repelled me. Yet I have no doubt concerning my friends sincerity. Tastes vary widely. But the best bean for "you" is always what YOU like!

This seems to be true, to an even greater extent, when one talks about tomatoes. Plus, with tomatoes, I'm absolutely positive that growing conditions play a huge role. Most years I grow Sunray VF. Some years (and under certain conditions) it is WONDERFUL. Other years, and under other conditions, it is just so so. I read rave reviews about Black Plum (tomato) yet whenever I've grown it I've found I really can't enjoy it, nor can anyone in my family. Yet, the rave reviews continue.... Those people aren't wrong. They probably just have different tastes.

George
Tahlequah, OK

George, a neighbor just told me to put agricultural lime around tomatoes to cure blossom end rot, as it is calcium. Wonder if it affects the taste.

He also said that the whole garden should be limed as the tree that was cut down last year would have acidified the soil. Do trees do that?

With tomatoes, we are getting a bit OT. But it wouldn't be the first time.

Calcium deficiency is one cause of BER. It isn't the only one, but seems to be a popular diagnosis. My experience with BER is that the very first fruits are susceptible. After that, the plants seem to grow out of it. My advice is to wait and see.

I don't understand what your neighbor is saying about lime and trees.

Jim

I don't either. Though, if it was an oak, and they made a lot of wood chips there, I guess you might have an acidity problem. I'd invest in a soil test before doing anything. Often, just good mulching and composting will sort of buffer a garden from some of those soil problems.

I just got my Childers Cutshorts planted today. Tomorrow or Monday I hope to get a couple poles of Ma Williams/ Goose bean planted as well as Long Cut Olde Timey Greasy Bean and Barksdale Wax Pole beans.

George

I planted Tennessee Cutshorts yesterday. :)

where would i buy rattlesnake beans, and are there a running or a bush bean, i like to grow different kind of bean

I know that they are available from Johnny's and Pinetree.

I got mine from rareseeds.com - Baker Creek Heirloom.

where is Johnny's and Pinetree located

Sand Hill Preservation has Rattlesnake pole beans. They have the freshest seed, lowest prices, and free shipping on orders over $10. ($2 for shipping orders under $10). At least those were the prices when I ordered.

"Rattlesnake: 77 days. Nice purple streaked, green podded, very flavorful snap bean. Moderate climber to 6 feet. 1 oz. Pkt. - 1 Pkt./$2.50 OG" [organic seed].

Have a look at their many other interesting beans!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sand Hill Preservation

Johnny's and Pinetree are both in Maine (but my ag agent here in NC suggested Johnny's as having good varieties for this area as well).

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/ is Johnny's site.

https://www.superseeds.com/ is Pinetree's site.

I've always gotten excellent service from both of them.

I didn't see Rattlesnake in Shumway's catalog, but they're on the website: http://www.rhshumway.com/ I may have just missed them -- the catalog is the folksy, jumbled style. Fun to browse, but a little awkward when you are looking for something specific. :-D

For me, the taste of Rattlesnake varies from average (in a good year) to below average (in a bad year). Young snaps are much better than older ones. It has always been extremely productive.

And, for flavor, it doesn't come close to Jeminez, Garrafal Oro, or Supermarconi Cuneo.

Gary

where would I get Jeminez, Garrafal, Oro, or Supermarconi Cuneo beans?

Just to let ya'll know. I planted Rattlesnake, Cherokee Trail of Tears pole beans and Peanut bush beans this year. My pole bean trellises are 7ft. Both the Rattlesnake and Cherokee Trail of Tears are growing over the top. Some of the vines are more than a foot over the top and starting to come back down. I have a lot of flowers but no beans yet. The Peanut beans should be ready to pick in a few days. I am waiting on some smaller ones to mature then pull them all up and start another planting. I am hoping for 3 plantings of the Peanut beans this year.

"I am waiting on some smaller ones to mature then pull them all up and start another planting. I am hoping for 3 plantings of the Peanut beans this year."

Some time ago, I came across a poster who said that bush beans (Peanut is a bush, right?) can be cut back, and the beans will set a new crop.

I can't find the post at the moment, but maybe someone with experience in growing bush beans this way would chime in.

I found the thread about growing bush beans as cut-and-come-again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sharing a tip about bush beans I learned long ago

My beets have high tops, but aren't making beets. What am I doing wrong?

"Do you think that the growing conditions, weather, soil, amount of fertilizer all have to be factored in to the taste of beans or any veggie. I mean we all look for recommendations for the number one tasting bean and maybe it really is different for each of us even if our tastes were the same. Am I making any sense?"

Perfect sense, Ruthieg.

I'm in complete agreement with Fusion's assessment; other than water stress, growing conditions seem to be less of an influence with snap beans than they are for many other vegetables. The snap beans I grew in San Jose & San Diego taste the same when grown here in Wisconsin. If the beans are dried, however, there can be variations in seed color from one location to the next.

Which beans taste good... well, that's another matter. As George & others have stated, there is no one right or wrong answer when it comes to beans - just different strokes for different folks. A few exceptional beans (such as "Kentucky Wonder", "Fortex", and "Emerite") are very widely liked; for the rest it's something of a crapshoot. Some like a rich beany flavor, some like them sweet. Some can't stand strings of any kind (regardless of flavor), some find the old-time string beans to be the most flavorful, and don't mind the strings. And some are attracted primarily by size, color, or other factors... taste notwithstanding.

The way you use beans is part of the reason for choosing some varieties over others. I like to nibble while I pick, so I always grow some that taste good raw. "Fortex" and pole wax beans like "Goldmarie" are good that way; they are almost "salad beans". Many beans are good as fresh snaps (with flavor being relative) but don't preserve well; some of the fast-maturing Romano types fall in that category. Some beans are good for freezing, but not firm enough for canning. And some are best used as green shelled beans... I've collected a lot of those.

IMO, there is more variation of flavor & texture available in beans than there is in tomatoes. Look for beans that are acclimated to your area first, try a bunch of them, and select those that best suit your preferences. You'll have a lot of fun in the process.

My one experience with "Rattlesnake" happened to be in a very bad bean year here in Wisconsin. The summer was cool & very wet, and all the pole beans struggled. Rust was a major problem due to those conditions, so my bean trials that year became a trial for rust resistance. That was the first year that I grew "Fortex" and "Garafal Oro", which proved to be highly rust resistant. I was a believer in both even before I found out how great they taste. "Emerite", "B.B. Wax", and "Pole 191" were nearly total losses (I'm trying "Emerite" one more time this year).

"Rattlenake", while it became rust infected, did not succumb completely. It bounced back when the weather finally warmed, and bore a medium yield of good-quality pods late in the season. Nevertheless, because it showed poor tolerance to cool conditions, I never grew it again.

"I've trialed several hundred different varieties of beans over the years..." (Fusion)

Seems I've got some catching up to do. ;-) I doubt that I'll ever reach that number, but it won't be for lack of trying. Grown about 100 so far.

Charles1935, you can find sources for most of the beans mentioned by visiting the Cornell site (see link below). It gives reviews of most varieties which are commercially available, and links to sources. Unfortunately, "Garafal Oro" has been dropped this year.

OT, regarding the application of lime for blossom end rot. This might work where the soil is acidic, but its application to sweet soils (such as those with limestone bedrock) might further upset the soil pH. My own area has soil of that type. I've had good luck burying a tablet of the commercial supplement "Citracal" (or a generic equivalent) under each plant, since it is a more acidic form of calcium.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell Vegetable Varieties for Gardeners

Dapper, that's interesting that you are growing Peanut Beans. I purchased a packet of Red Peanut Bean from Sandhill Preservation Center and have been pretty impressed. They are prolific and early. The pods dry down very quickly, so one has to pick them faithfully. They have strings, which, as Zeedman mentioned, I don't mind. Last night I cooked up a batch which had gotten old. Some were yellowing. I thought, "Well, here's the acid test." "We'll see if they come out tough." We cooked them up and they were tender. They had not struck me as a tender hull variety. Red Peanut is a half runner. I grew it without support, but did notice that it would have grown up support if it had been provided.

My only complaint with them, is what I'd say with most bush beans; and that, it's a lot more work to fix a mess of these than it is with our favorite pole varieties. They have larger, fatter beans which take less work to prepare.

Red Peanut shells out fairly easily. It would make a good shellie.

George
Tahlequah, OK

I am growing rattlesnakes beans first time ever this year. A friend gave me some beans... threw 8 in and they went nuts. They are easily 12 feet high. They are producing a ridiculous amount. Super sweet, too. I am in southern Maine. I need another freezer...

I really like Rattlesnake beans, though I've only grown them for a couple years.

I did make the mistake of putting my bamboo poles in when I was in a hurry, and didn't trim them back. I think they grew to 12 feet tall. Yesterday, I had to reach up and cut the pole tops off and carefully lower the tops & remove the pole tops, as they were quickly maturing way above my reach.

I have grown Rattlesnake Beans three years. They are sweet, and taste good. I am not so sure they are as productive as other beans like Kentucky Wonder and Blue Lake.

They are neat to look at. And I re-use the seed and somehow I have an all purple bean growing from seed that I harvested. The all purple bean plant seems less productive than the rattlesnake beans.