Advice on new 400w basement set-up for lettuce, other veg

19 years ago

Hi, I'm about to setup a new indoor growing setup for smaller vegetables (i.e. leaf lettuce, radishes) in the basement of my parent's farm house (furnace is downstairs, so fairly warm, but cools down a bit at night). The lighting system I have borrowed is 400 w hps. Most people on this forum appear to use tiered/multi-leveled systems with fluorescent lights, but I plan to set up a flat, approx. 4' by 4' growing area, which makes a fair amount of my questions slightly different than others, as I know 400 w hps is quite the amount of light.

Questions:

1) I know Metal Halide is the blue end of the light spectrum, which facilitates veg growth, whereas I have an hps bulb (red, floral). I was wondering if this is going to have a major negative effect on my growing attempts.

2) I'm going to use soil, and was wondering on pots vs. windowsill length cointainers vs. I had a thought of using a square kiddy pool, full of soil, with some small holes in the bottom and something to catch the draining water underneath. Thus all the plants would be in the same larger body of soil, allowing root growing space and nutrient sharing like outside. Is this a good or a bad idea?

3) Is leaving 400 w of hps light on for longer each day, say 17 hours a day vs. 12 hours, beneficial or harmful? With such powerful lighting (compared to many fluorescent or white light setups), I thought maybe I could grow lettuce, etc. much quicker than the outdoor process.

I think those are my main questions for now. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (11)

shrubs_n_bulbs
19 years ago
1. MH lamps produce both blue and red light, and often quite a lot in between. HPS produce only a broad spread of yellow-red light. Your lettuce will grow under the HPS but consider it to be somewhat less effective than a metal halide. You might have trouble with them bolting since HPS light encouranges flowering. Plus your plants will look a funny colour.

2. One large container can be easier to maintain than many smaller containers in terms of watering and fertilising. It can be a nuisance in terms of flexibility if you want to move some of the plants elsewhere, rotate plants towards the centre of the light, etc.

3. 400W over 16 square feet is bright, but nowhere near bright enough to damage your plants, even running 24/7. Most plants grow best with 14-18 hours light, some to slightly better with 24 hours. For what its worth, your light will be nowhere near as bright as direct sunlight and even 18 hours full on would not equal a typical summers day outdoors, but it should be plenty to grow healthy lettuce. Just make sure you have enough air movement not to overheat the plants.
watergal
19 years ago
For a large drainage tray, get a washing machine tray from your home improvement store. About $19 for a sturdy tray, maybe 30" square and it's even white to help reflect the light.

If you want to keep the plants from sitting in water, go buy eggcrate (plastic grid stuff) in the fluorescent light department. You can cut it with sturdy scissors or a wire cutter.
Related Discussions
Favorite Lettuce and other salad greens
Q
Comments (71)
Go to Johnnys Seeds web site and clic on the type of vegatable you want to grow then click on the growing information highlight the information copy and past it into a word processing program then move on to the next one and repete the process and soon you will have growing information on all of the vegatables you can grow. here's the one from lettuce. Remember to go alphabeticaly from a to z. www.johnnyseeds.com Growing Information: CULTURE: Lettuce is hardy and can be planted as early as the soil can be worked. It is a cool weather crop and makes its best growth at temperatures of 60-65°F (16-18°C). Careful variety selection is important for hot weather crops. Sow every 3 weeks for a continuous supply of fresh lettuce. THERMAL DORMANCY: Lettuce can be dormant at high temperatures. For best germination results sow at soil temperatures of 68°F (20°C) or lower. The priming process in pelleted lettuce seeds broadens the temperature range in which the seeds will germinate, overcoming some of a lot's thermal dormancy. TRANSPLANTING: Sow in flats, 4 seeds/in., or in 3/4' plug trays, barely covering seeds with fine vermiculite, 3-4 weeks before transplanting outdoors. Shade the flats on sunny, warm days if necessary to keep the soil surface cool, below 75°F (24°C), until germination. If sowing into flats, transplant 1-2' apart into flats, pots, or cell-type containers about 2 weeks later. Harden seedlings by reducing water and temperature for 2-3 days before planting outdoors. Properly hardened transplants can survive temperatures as low as 20°F (-6°C). Transplant iceberg lettuce 12' apart in rows 18' apart, other types 8-12' x 12-18' apart. DIRECT SEEDING: Seeds germinate even at low, 40°F (4°C), soil temperature, but poorly above 75-85°F (24-29°C) depending on the variety and seed lot. Cover seed lightly, about 1/8', and firm soil gently. Dry soil must be watered to ensure coolness and moisture, and for even germination. Thin young seedlings to one plant per spot. For salad mix: sow in a 2-4' wide band, about 60 seeds/ft. MT0 SEEDS: A variety name followed by MT0-10 indicates that the seeds offered for sale in sizes larger than a packet have been tested for the presence of lettuce mosaic virus and that no LMV was found in a sample of 10,000 seeds or less. MT0-30 indicates that no LMV was found in a sample of 30,000 seeds tested. NOTE: A disease-free test result does not guarantee a seedlot to be disease-free, only that in the sample tested, the pathogen targeted was not found. DAYS TO MATURITY: For full-size heads from direct seeding and growth in mild temperatures; subtract 10-14 days if transplanting. Note: maturity can be 3 or more weeks later in cool weather, and up to 1 week earlier in hot weather. AVG. DIRECT SEEDING RATE: For full-size heads (precision seeded): 5,300'/oz., 220'/1,000 seeds, 5.5 oz./acre at 3 seeds every 8' in rows 18' apart. For salad mix: 400'/oz., 16'/1,000 seeds, 6,400'/lb. At 60 seeds/ft. TRANSPLANTS: Avg. 20,000 plants/oz. SEED SPECS: SEEDS/OZ.: 20,000-30,000 (avg. 24,000). MINI: 0.5 gm. unless otherwise noted (avg. 400 seeds, sows about 17' at 24 seeds/ft., or makes 250 transplants). PACKET: 1 gm. unless otherwise noted (avg. 800 seeds, sows 34' or makes about 480 plants).
...See More
winter veg - zone 8b gulf coast Florida
Q
Comments (11)
Just a quick note that my seeds have sprouted outside with partial shade. I am so excited! I was running out of sunny areas in the house so gave it a whirl in the 100+ degree heat here. I was too scared not to have some shade, though, and they did come up! They're just starting to come up, so I can't say how many I'll get compared to indoors yet. From what I understand, zones 7 and 8 or higher have no problem growing summer crops in the fall so I also am trying tomatoes. Not a single one has come up yet, but they also hate this high heat. I have some seedlings indoors to transplant if these do not come up. I've had the other tomatoes outside for over a week now, though, and nothing from the outside ones... ugggh ~Angela
...See More
grow light set up
Q
Comments (44)
The advantage of LED's. light shines in one direction so if all the led's are pointed in a narow range forward, then most of the light will hit your trees. The life expectancy of the LED bulbs are 50,000 hours but the electronics in it probably won't exceed much over 6000 hr. You and I loose. The multi color lights is largely a gimmick. Single color bulbs are less efficient than all spectrum bulb. So lets put all the diodes in all spectrum instead of having a group of one color combined with a group of other individual colors. Citrus trees are slower in winter because of many reason with one being less light. trees are genetically coded to sow down to day length, decreasing solar angle, light wavelength shifts as the solar angle changes through out are seasons. BR40 CFL - 23 Watt - 120W Equal - 6500K Full Spectrum Daylight this is the best bulb for your trees and will look good in you living area. check out this company's link and check out Home depot or other for equivelent. If you value time and don't mind reasonable sipping cost than just get the above. Home depot may have a 6 pack going for much less. They may not. Kroger's will rip you off on these. No rush you have 5+ months left.
...See More
Newbie grow log, Tomatos under a 400w HPS
Q
Comments (24)
Thanks guys, no I did not supercrop. In fact, I did prune off the suckers ... later I found out that I should NOT have done that. It will severely hurt your yield they say. However, the plants are much bigger then the previous photos and are setting fruit quite nicely. Ill try to get some pics posted tonight. Also, my green pepper plants have sprouted, along with a pretty purple pepper plant, and a beefmaster indeterimante tomato plant. My basil is growing great, and I have been topping the basil which is in turn responding nicely and starting to grow "tops". My lettuce is like a wildfire as well .. fun stuff! Now that I got my newbie mistakes out of the way I think Im ready to rock on the next grow ;) I need to take a few clones of these totem hybrids though, I really like them. I think my next grow however, will be an INDETERMINANT cherry type tomato plant, and an indeterminant slicer variety as well, along with a few green peppers, lettuce, and spinach. Then I want to try a blueberry bush and some strawberries. I dont think the blueberries will be any problem but the strawberries are a different matter. In trying to find a continously producing line. The june bearers only fruit once a year, and then theres a seasonal variety that fruit twice a year.... neither will fit my requirements. I think I need to go with a day neutral variety to get a continous fuit production for the life of the plant??
...See More
GreyDawn
Original Author
19 years ago
wow thanks watergal, those are useful specific ideas for the base of my flat setup, now i know exactly what to get for that.
jwmeyer
19 years ago
All good advice. As far as the light goes, and I know I've been promoting this particular bulb alot lately, but I'm just really so impressed with it's results I feel like I need to pass it on. The Phillips 400w (mastercolor)ceramic metal halide is considered a MH but produces a white light. It operates on a HPS ballast. If you have the ability to check one out, you really should. It's ideal for all stages of plant growth!
hairmetal4ever
19 years ago
I use exclusively MH light. I have a 1000W with two citrus plants that have been blooming like crazy since January 15th. I also have other assorted plants and those that bloom are doing well.
Dezdon
19 years ago
HI,
How do tomatoes do under 400 MH? And how do the flowers get pollinated for the fruit if there indoors? I also have some lettuce going and they look great. Trying to get a jump on the nieghbors for the vegi gardens this year...heheh
Dez
send2jayce
9 years ago
Use the back side of an electric tooth brush to rub up against the back side of the green portions of the plant nearest the flower. The vibrations supposedly simulate the wing beat frequency of a bee. I don't know about any of that but I do know the vibration triggers the pollen to be ejected in a pollinating cloud for the flowers beneath if to enjoy.
Good Luck! ;)
SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
9 years ago
You realize this thread is almost 10 yrs old? But interesting lol
ongodsmountain
9 years ago
regarding the mastercolor ceramic metal halide bulb

Is this it (150w version)?

Philips 13022-9 - 150 Watt - ED17
MasterColor - Pulse Start - Metal Halide - Unprotected Arc Tube - 3000K - Medium Base - Universal Burn - CDM 150W/830 Med ED17 CL ALTO

(link below)

Here is a link that might be useful: 150watt CMH bulb?
ongodsmountain
9 years ago
and can the bulb I linked above be used directly with this fixture without having to change the ballast?

Sun SystemÃÂ® HPS 150 Grow Light Fixture
(link included below)

Here is a link that might be useful: 150 watt HPS fixture
MisterK
9 years ago
Yes it can be used, however keep in mind that feeding 400 watts into a 150 watt bulb will shorten its life.

You will also need a mogul to medium reducer socket as the lamp you linked uses a E26 socket which is smaller then the standard E39 used in higher wattage high intensity discharge lamps.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5840/ELEC-242515.html

Piece of advice from a very experienced indoor grower, get the 400 watt version at minimum. Youll be disappointed with the 150 watt, slow growth and no canopy penetration, small footprint, etc

The most efficient HID in terms of lumens per watt is the 600 watt high pressure sodium. I stricly use 600w hps, 1000w hps and 1000w metal halide lights, anything smaller doesnt grow much...

Advice on new 400w basement set-up for lettuce, other veg

Comments (11)

shrubs_n_bulbs

watergal

Related Discussions

GreyDawn
Original Author

jwmeyer

hairmetal4ever

Dezdon

send2jayce

SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC

ongodsmountain

ongodsmountain

MisterK

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Advice on new 400w basement set-up for lettuce, other veg

Comments (11)

Related Discussions

GreyDawnOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

GreyDawn
Original Author