Pee Wee vs. Munchkin and spacing for a hedge
I would like to plant a bed/hedge of dwarf oakleaf hydrangea along the north side of my home (side of the house, not the front). The bed will be raised up 6" or so. The soil will be comprised of potting soil that my landscaper makes himself. I use it in my raised bed garden with great results. Excellent drainage.
So, I'm deciding on what dwarf to plant and I need advice. I have 17 feet of planting space bookended by a fence on one end and my heat pump on the other. The enclosed picture only captures part of the planting area. I will separately enclose some other pictures (although none are great) to show the area, before and after my partial update.
1. For a northern exposure Florida 9a/8b location does Munchkin or Pee Wee have an advantage over the other? WIll one bloom more reliably in a northern with light but no direct sunlight? I think I'm leaning toward Munchkin because Dirr's book says it gets 3.5 to 4 x 4 feet whereas Pee Pee according to him gets 3.5 to 4.5 x 6 feet. He's in GA and I'm in FL with a longer growing season. I just don't want the hydrangeas to take over my house or grow into my path.
Which would bloom more profusely in my light?
2. My bed would be 17' long by 5' wide. What would my spacing be? I don't want them to grow into my heat pump and I want to make sure they get good air circulation. I'd like for them to just touch each other and look good. I don't want the bed to look anemic.
Thanks in advance!
Comments (13)
nolefan_2006
11 years agoFrom the opposite end before I cleaned out the vines, leveled the ground and placed pea gravel.
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Comments (52)Joe, I've only had one order from Grandpa's orchard (unlike some of the others), but it went very well and I was pleased with the trees. I ordered tree guards to go along with the trees and it turned out that they were temporarily out of stock. They emailed me to let me know they would send them after the main order (no extra shipping cost) and offered me a book or some extra guards as an apology. I chose the extras and they sent 36+ instead of 24, around a week later. Nice deal. Cummins also has a lot of heritage varieties. I think Garedneck has some very good points. It's good to have a few extra trees for any number of reasons. A lot of orchards have dwarf apples at 2' ("super spindle" pruning). That seems a bit extreme to me, but I figure around 5' is a good place to start. If some bomb out I can either graft over, or remove the tree(s), depending on how the spacing is working for me. I've planted so many apples that in a few years, I can afford to screw up quite a bit and still lots of fruit. Of course, I'm not as confident in tight spacing for some of trees without dwarfing rootstocks. Peaches for example seem a bit more chancy to me. Most of mine are on full-size rootstocks, which is what most places sell. I am planting one this spring (Gold Dust- should arrive next week) on Citation, but even that isn't really dwarfing, like the apple rootstocks. So, I'm giving it a try, but it may require a lot of summer pruning to keep manageable. Either way, I'd suggest keeping like trees together (apples near apples, etc). If you have other parts of the yard open, maybe do a row of apples and pears here and stonefruit in another area?...See MorePruning of oakleaf hydrangeas
Comments (3)New gardeners (and a good many not-so-new as well) often have ill-informed notions behind the need for pruning. Pruning should not be considered a routine garden chore that every plant requires but rather approached with a clear understanding of the reasons behind pruning and what you intend to accomplish by this activity. Pruning is defined as the removal of or reduction of certain plant parts that are no longer required, are no longer effective or that are of no use to the plant. It is done to supply additional energy for the development of flowers, fruits and the limbs that remain on the plant. Most professional pruners and the better pruning resources prioritize 4 main reasons to prune: 1)Maintain or encourage plant health by removing dead, diseased or conflicted wood (crossing branches) or thinning to lighten dense growth and provide better air circulation. 2)To train the growth of young plants (i.e., fruit trees) or to enhance the growth habit/form of more mature plants (i.e., Japanese maples, certain types of conifers). 3)To improve the quality of flowers or fruit or encourage foliar or stem effects. 4)To restrict growth or control size. And this one tends to be a point of contention among professionals as to its validity. Obviously, plants used for formal hedging need to be pruned to maintain size and a tidy appearance and from time to time various trees and shrubs will produce wayward growth that should be removed for appearance sake. But to routinely cut back trees and shrubs to maintain a size smaller than they naturally intend to be is most often a case of improper placement or the incorrect plant selection for that location and is unnecessary and disfiguring. For a relatively recently planted dwarf oakleaf hydrangea, the only one of these reasons that could remotely come into play is the first and pruning to remove defective or diseased/dead branches can (and should) be done at any time they become apparent. Otherwise, I can hardly think of any reason to ever prune a dwarf oakleaf, other than to deadhead spent flowers, but that is really more of a housekeeping chore than a true pruning activity. FWIW, I have a full size oakleaf ('Snow Queen') in my garden that's about 10 years old that has never been visited by pruning shears :-))...See Morebest oakleaf variety
Comments (11)I'd just like to add my two cents to George's endorsement of 'Little Honey'. I grew a lot of hydrangeas in my old garden (only a couple dozen compared to G's 100!) but the only one I brought with me to my new place was LH. It is still a tricky one to find easily and mine was a gift from the breeder (actually one of the sales reps) so I didn't want to risk not having one in my in new garden. Hydrangeas - and even oakleaf hydrangeas - aside, this is probably my favorite plant of any I've grown. And that's coming from a plant collector that has grown 1000's of different plants! There is just something about the glowing color and the form/texture of the plant that I find very appealing and the fall color can be outstanding and very long lasting. I will say that in the 6 years or so I've had mine, I can recall only a couple of blossoms and those nothing to write home about. This is not an ideal oakleaf to grow for flowers but it will still add a great deal of visual interest to a garden. Now as to the winter appearance of oakleaf hydrangeas, I'm going to disagree with George :-) IMO, they have a much more appealing look in winter than does any other type of hydrangea. Part of it has to do with their more sprawling growth habit and the tendency to hold foliage, and nicely colored foliage at that, but most rests with stems and bark - the bark on mature stems is cinnamon colored and rough, shaggy and exfoliating. I think this adds a lot of interest to a winter landscape and I like including them in garden designs for just this purpose. YMMV As to which cultivar is "best", that is completely a matter of personal choice. With the limitations of LH aside, they all perform about equally, so mature size and flowering attributes may be the determining factor. I looked long and hard at 'Vaughn's Lily' this season under a variety of conditions and decided the heavy, dense blossoms were just not my cup of tea :-) IMO, you cannot go wrong with 'Snow Queen' for a standard sized plant or 'Pee Wee' for a dwarf....See MoreOak leaf Pee Wee or Little Lime?
Comments (15)Hyped & Marie- Mahoney's still has a decent amount of Bobos left- I bought two but am rethinking that perhaps I should get one more while I can. What is your suggested spacing- I know it says 4' but is that two far? Many thanks...See Morenolefan_2006
11 years agoI'm going to install a flagstone path here with pea gravel just like in my back yard.
luis_pr
11 years agonolefan_2006
11 years agoThanks Luis. I wasn't clear in my earlier posts. The pea gravel was a somewhat failed attempt at xeroscaping my north facing somewhat shady side yard. It was in reaction to overgrown jasmine that had invaded from my neighbor's yard. That "before" picture was after I had already trimmed several feet of it away. When I bought the house the vines had actually grown into the AC units! You couldn't even walk back there.
So I ripped it all out and xeroscaped. It looks much cleaner, but also looks sterile. The stones are also hard to walk on and it's very difficult to get my lawn mower back there. So, we're redoing it again. This time we're going to rake back the pea gravel, lay a flag stone path around the side, then put pea gravel in between the stones. I have a new project elsewhere for the extra leftover pea gravel. It's much easier to walk on the path in the backyard with the flagstones in place.
Then while we're doing this I'm going to put in a raised bed planter on the right side of picture one, about 4 or 5 feet wide. I'm definitely leaving planty of room to access the heat pumps. I'm going to raise this bed up at least 6" and fill it with locally made potting soil. The perimeter of the raised bed will be made with matching flagstones so it will look something like this picture from the web (not my house and I didn't take this picture). I wasn't planning on using pea gravel for the "mulch". It gets so hot here it would literally cook the roots.
I tend to like pine straw for my mulch. Not as long lived as pine bark, but I like the look and I have been told that it doesn't attract termites. It's also easy to remove when it breaks down and replace with new. Acidifies the soil too which is important here, because my stucco concrete block house releases alkaline material into the dirt. I need to do this twice a year, but it's cost prohibitive, so I only do it once a year. It takes over 300 bales to do my yard!
I'm worried that they may not get enough light in this location. Does anyone have any opinions on this?
Can I really get by with just 3 Munchkins for 17' of bed? My wallet will thank me if this is so.
How many years will it take for them to fill in this space?
Thanks again everyone!
luis_pr
11 years agonolefan_2006
11 years agoLuis are you talking about your oakleafs or macs, or pee gees, etc?
We LOVE all types of hydrangeas. But, unfortunately most of our yard isn't mac friendly... I put in a bed a few months ago. Too many plants in too small a space, but I don't mind. I'll post a few pics. Hijacking my own thread... ha
The bed is on the south side of my yard facing east. Gets fried every day in the FL sun. The Lime Lights do just fine. Unfazed. The Penny Macs get droopy. The ES and Blushing Bridge look down right sick. But, I have them on an automatic drip irrigation timer and they get watered at 3pm when the sun starts to go behind some tall trees. They perk up by 5pm.
I have 6 Incrediballs waiting on my at my nursery (they special ordered them for me).
And, I'm going to plant 3 or 4 Munchkins, one Harmony and one Snowflake. I can't wait for my order to come in.
Oh, yeah, you mentioned that it could take ten years for my oakleafs to fill in that 17' bed. I'm patient enough to wait two or three years, but not ten. If that's the case maybe I should plant 5 or 6 and then trim back in a decade.... what do you think?
nolefan_2006
11 years agoThis is the before pic for that area. I had 20' tall Ligustrum, leftover from the previous homeowner. I thought I was planting in a shady area. Turns out when you rip everything out it dramatically changes the light...
luis_pr
11 years agonolefan_2006
11 years ago
nolefan_2006Original Author