We have a 10x10 coop 3 pop doors, 4 bathroom windows (salvage), no insulated but does have siding. Wood floor coverd with shavings. The only place I use hay is in the nesting boxes. I take a pooper scooper at dinner time and scoop, always dry and clean, never smells. Clean their run the same way. No heat lamp, body heat only we live in New England also. Their perches are wide so they can cover their feet during the winter. Sun comes in windows warms the coop during the day nights they huddle. Their run is completely covered. 6 dog kennel sections wrapped in chicken wire. The wire flaps at the bottom and is covered with large size rocks. The top is also covered with double chicken wire braced with wooden slats to hold the weight of the snow. They do have a heated water dish in the coop during the winter. They have a light that comes on just before dark they go in 1/2 hr lights out. Summer doors and windows stay open all day they come and go in their run/coop. Winter just after they go in (same time every night) I close all doors and open again in morning. They have 24/7 grain/cracked corn in hanging feeders but after work they get left overs any veggie/potato/meat/pastas. I warm it in winter and in summer they get watermelon, frozen yogert. yummy. We throw nothing away. Can't figure out how to post pictures.

These actually look well thought-out and fairly strong, with an eye towards good, sensible construction when it comes to chickens. Depending on how many birds you want to get, they look fine. Some things to keep in mind--they MUST be predator proof. This means everything from rats & mice (carry disease, attracted to chicken feed and can squeeze into any space they can fit their heads into) to raccoons, skunks & possums (smart and can reach through chicken wire with their little hands and tear the backs out of birds) to the neighbor's dogs, coyotes and, depending on where you live, larger predators. NEVER buy anything with chicken wire (poultry netting)--it's designed to keep chickens out of a garden, NOT protect from predators. Both the coops you listed use hardware cloth, which is perfect--it's strong, doesn't rust and get brittle and the small holes don't allow vermin or raccoon hands to pass through. I've heard nothing but horrific stories of mass slaughter from people who wanted to save money and used chicken wire. Their regret was massive. :( For roosts we use 2x2's that we slightly sand on each edge to avoid injury and make it comfortable for the chickens' feet to grip. It works for standard breeds and bantams equally well. Branches of varying size can work too. You should be able to get to your birds no matter where they are in the run/coop (in case of illness/injury), and for cleaning the thing. They WILL poop on everything, and if it's possible for them to hurt themselves on it (wire sticking out, etc.) they'll freakin' find a way. Make plans for where they'll go when you are cleaning the coop or moving it. If it is to be their full-time home, the run should either have a hardware cloth bottom or should be anchored to the ground and hardware cloth buried at least 6 inches down and bent outwards to thwart digging predators--predators LOVE a chicken dinner and will work all night to get one. We constructed our own coop/run/nests, it was cheaper in the long run and we could design it to fit our yard & needs. Enjoy your chickens! :) Velvet ~:>

Claire, my Rhode Island Reds survive the winter nicely in the milk house part of our old dairy barn, the cattle and horses have free range of the bottom part, they come and go in the winter as they please. None of it is heated, so they do require fresh water daily in the winter because it freezes but there is no heat source. I am considering getting a heated waterer so they don't have to be watered twice a day. That's why I have Rhode Island Reds, they can nicely survive Michigan's winter as long as they have shelter. They even go outside on sunny winter days and run about in the snow. In fact, I don't know anyone that has a heated chicken coop or barn. We do have a pond and in the winter a full 100 gallon stock tank with a heater so the water is always "open", but I've never had a chicken drown, or even go into the tank or the pond, so I don't think you have to worry about your chickens drowning either. The biggest issue with chickens running about free in a yard is predators. Everything from the neighbor's dogs to coyotes, hawks, fox. Skunks like to sneak into the coop and steal eggs. For the protection of my own personal flock they only are allowed to run about while I'm there to supervise (and besides, they peck only the ripe tomatoes if they are unsupervised in the garden) and they are always locked into their coop at night when they go inside to roost. All of mine are tame enough to be picked up and will run into their fenced enclosure if I pick up a bucket and call them, so it's easy enough to keep them confined when I'm not there to protect them. Annie

Now the experts are saying that the chemical that is used to treat seed corn against root worm is one of the big culprits in the killing off of the bees. When Bayer first came up with clothianidin they assured all the powers that be that there would be no harm to the bees because the seeds themselves would be coated and buried underground when planted. Ummmm Hmmmm. Except that it didn't work, the coating is rubbed off during shipment, packaging, planting, etc. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (May 30, 2003): "Clothianidin has the potential for toxic chronic exposure to honey bees, as well as other nontarget pollinators, through the translocation of clonianidin residue in nectar and pollen." [In the same report] "The fate and disposition of clothianidin in the environment suggest a compound that is a systemic insecticide that is persistent and mobile, stable to hydrolysis, and has potential to leach to ground water, as well as runoff to surface waters." "Clothianidin is highly toxic to honey bees on an acute contact basis (killing 50% of tested populations at greater than 389 mg/kg). It has the potential for toxic chronic exposure to honey bees, as well as other nontarget pollinators, through the translocation of clothianidin residues in nectar and pollen. In honey bees, the effects of this toxic chronic exposure may include lethal and/or sub-lethal effects in the larvae and reproductive effects in the queen." So, thanks to big agri-business and their "better living through chemicals" mind set, they are contributing to the death of the pollinators the farmers need for a crop. Anoither culprit could be high fructose corn syrup. Studies have shown that bees fed HFCS have compromised immune systems and cannot fight off infections. So, in the interest of saving money and using a cheaper alternative to feeding the bees in the winter time, HFCS instead of honey, it appears that beekeepers are contributing to the demise of their own hives. I've been doing my homework, you see, because Elery wants to put some bees out at the farm this year. Although I am allergic to bee stings and probably shouldn't actually handle the bees, I'm excited, but I want to make sure we do it right. Annie