New project, need insight from fellow landscapers

18 years ago

Hiya!

Up until now, one side of my property has been soo dull and underdeveloped, namely the western side. This is sad, since this is where the sun is set, and if im standing against that wall I have a nice view of the sunset. So I figured its time to start do something about it. Since I do have a full wood deck on the southern side (towards the pond, remember), I wanted to extend that deck around the corner, like in the picture below. And I do want to create a "japanese" feeling. Since this is probably the best I can do since no real "landscape" can be designed here. And this area get quite a bit of sun... so Im unsure if maples and hostas will survive here.

Anyway, here is a sketch I made:

Asn you can see I started with the deck (im NOT a 2D artist). Then I added gravel in an uneven pattern surrounding it. Then to balance the picture I added some shrubs (possibly muschantis grass, azalea, astilbe, bamboo)

Then since the area is accessible from the back by walking on the deck, I figured it should also be accessible from the front. Therefor I added a path using some flat stones. And no path should be complete without a lantern, I added a kasuga (unsure about location.)

And since the view from the west contains the street, I added a korean style screen to protect from unwanted attention when Im sititng there enjoying the sunset.

For your reference, here is a pic from the south, undeveloped. Its my plan to extend the wood deck around this corner.

Now Im curious about your thoughts... My main concern is to balance the scene, since the wall is sooo overwhelming in the original state. I wanted to create a cosy place with a japanese touch and also I want it to be estetically pleasing since quite a lot of people pass by my property every day. I will probably add some plant in a pot on the deck, as well as a small chair and a table (not on the pic).

And when my sad sakura (cherry) will start to grow, I will get some more screening.

thank you for any and all comments, suggestions, revisements

/Henrik

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Comments (24)

gerald
18 years ago
Henrik,

I would not wrap the deck, nor add stepping stones, as the area becomes a throughway rather than a destination. I would consider some kind of clading to disguise the building, perhaps a tea house or hut facade.

I'd consider screening the area from both sides to create more intamcy. Perhaps a fence screen half way (or even closer to the road) between the building and the street. You can then plant the street side to add some street appeal.

Mainly be concerned with the view out, not the view in. Keep in mind many Japanese residences are surrounded by a high wall to illiminate the outside world rather than inviting it in.

An image for the atmoshere of the space could be the moon viewing deck at Katsura Imperial Villa. It also looks like a secluded area where you could create a bit of a getaway for you and your lover to watch the setting sun alone in the world.

Gerald
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
Your commenets are really interesting, and provided an angle I haven't considered in detail. Sadly, I live in sweden and not japan, and here we have so many rules and regulations about fences, teahouses, garden sheds etc. I have plans on making a teahouse in the back where it will have less of an impact on the neighborhood. But here on this side I think I have to settle for something less :( Perhaps by adding a roof to the deck... hmm

About the path, the pic is bad I think now, because as you say it invites people to the deck. I should probably make it turn to the left where it starts (foreground) instead of just starting in the middle of nowhere... then it implies that the deck is accessible from within the (front side of the)garden, not from the street...

My plan is also in the future to make room for a glass door in the wall, in the right corner of the big grey wall. Its the master bedroom, and I want to be able to go out for some fresh air without having to walk thoguh the entire house...

Im not trying to make something entirely japanese but rather a mix that will fit in the current location. And building permits are rather expensive and take time :(

But I think my original sketch can be improved upon.

thanks for your comments
Henrik

ps, If I try to block the view from the street, I will also block the sun.... so its rather tricky. ds
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gerald
18 years ago
Hi Henrick, I diden't mean to add a teahouse etc. Just make the side of the building look like that. in any case...

Off the master bedroom, a great place to add some patio doors and a private garden. I did one this past spring. We sunk the garden a couple of feet into the ground and then mounded the space in further and added some large rock for sitting etc. There is a hot tub and outdoor shower. The only way to get into the garden is through the masterbedroom. This really adds to the privacy. sorry no photos on our website yet. They'll be there in a few weeks.

Gerald
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
Oh, I see ;) Without pictures its sometimes easy to misunderstand. Well, I understand now ;)

I will start the construction of the deck, and when thats complete, I will investigate how to frame it, and make it private. I have two main goals

1) To make a spot in my garden from where I can (in a natural way) enjoy the sunset without *too* much neighbor interaction. I dont think I can close it up completly...

2) To make this side of the garden useful, and decorative.

*3* some time in the future make a hole in the wall and add a glass door from the bedroom.

The idea is to make a roof over the "main" wood-deck and leave this added part for getting a ice tan ;) And a nice sunset view.

/Henrik
Cytania
18 years ago
Hi Mr.North, can you explain more about these restrictions in Sweden. Are they the reason you and your neighbours have no fences and flat grass areas?

Reason I ask is in my opinion your solitary decking area is very wrong for the Japanese style. I would be looking to create a view throughout the whole garden to be seen from your relaxation zone, not making that area the only focal point.

Boulders, gravel and pines should be very possible but is there a law against it?
gerald
18 years ago
Hi Cytania,

The bylaws are likley similar to the ones you find in many countries. Japan has many more difficult bylaw hoops (much time is spent running around getting neighbors to agree to bylaw varieances) to pass through than here in Canada, but yes we have many.

The reason for the stark flat landscape is probably because it is a new development and the landscape is perceved as unimportant and would add costs to the sales price. I'll bet even the fill that the grass is growing in is of marginal quality.

It is quite common now for developers to strip the topsoil at the beginning of the develop[ment and sell it. Using the junk excavation stuff from the foundations as their back fill.

Cheers Gerald
Cytania
18 years ago
Hi Gerald, in Britain we are very bound in by planning laws, particulary front gardens. In theory even a bit of sculpture in the garden requires you to apply to the local council at a cost of several hundred pounds. No amount of neighbour agreement will count if the council says No.

For front gardens fences and walls above 1 metre are forbidden, so any sense of enclosure is usually achieved with hedging. What you mention about landscaping in new developments is true here as well. Even if a garden looks nice it the turf is often hiding soil littered with builders rubbish.

If MrNorth can do it I'd certainly advise him to get in structural trees that will create a natural vista and incidentally interrupt the view across to his neighbours. Also if a pond can be made the soil removed can create a mound or two to introduce the 'mountain' element oriental gardens require. Obviously this is more work than the simple zone outlined in the first post but it will be so much more satisfying in the long term.
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
Hi there, friends!

The rules in the UK look very similar to teh ones in sweden, aspecially those about creating enclosure. Thats why I think I have to solve it using plants instead of high fences.

Anyway, here is a WIP picture

{{gwi:1009125}}

As you can see I have completed the deck. The hole to the left is leading to a maintenance hatch for the house, I will add a small "door" that can be unscrewed if anyone want to check the foundation.

Now the easy part is done, and the hard part has begun.

My first thought is the enclosure, which IS an important thing. The screening fence I have added was something my dad had in his garage, and I put it there just to have something... Im still looking for ideas on what to do here.

As someone mentioned, the key is to make it look as if the deck is integrated in the scene. If anyone feel like photoshopping any suggestions, its greatly appreciated, LOL :)

I will keep you updated ;)

/Henrik
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
I curious when it comes to selecting trees... I really need some help/advice here. I want to create enclosure as well as block from the sun... So I really want to plant a tree that eventually will grow close with the branshes above the deck itself. What kind of tree would that be? I need it grow fast, with more width than height... Perhaps a prunus? Or willow?

The view I posted above show you the main view... how could a possible tree attrangement be made there? Any and all suggestions are welcome!!!

/Henrik
Herb
18 years ago
Henrik,

You mentioned your need for shade over the deck & it's occurred to me that a pergola with suitably oriented overhead slats might work. Even climbing plants would do the job if ones to suit your climate are available. (Our next door neighbour is growing grapes for example).

Here's a picture with a few ideas. I wanted to add climbing plants, to the picture, but they're a bit difficult.

Herb

Click here
vvtn2
18 years ago
Does any body know why I don't see the pictures? They just don't show up on my screen. What software do I need?
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
thank YOU herb! but sadly that kind of pruned tree will never fall into my hands ;) Do you suggest anything cheaper? Perhaps any kind of acer?

The pines we have in sweden, pinus sylvestris... they grow rather boring, like a christmas tree.

I will definetly add a roof and some protection from the street view!

About pics, probably you need to restart IE. It sometimes refuses to show pics...

/Henrik
Herb
18 years ago
Henrik -

Thanks, but let me confess that I used that tree only because the pompoms were so easy to cut & paste!

I agree that a Christmas tree shape would be boring.

I don't know about Pinus sylvestris, but if there's a suitably sized Pine that will grow in your climate and that can be trained & pruned to a pleasing shape, it could fit in nicely & look better than the pompoms. An Acer could look nice too, if you don't mind having something deciduous there.

There must be lots of other good choices - maybe somebody can suggest something else of suitable size & habit?

Herb
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
Now I took some more pics to give you a full view of the entire wood deck. As you can see its rather boring, without plants and stones/gravel... The roof on the short side is a good idea, but what about the "long side"?

long side
{{gwi:1009126}}

short side
{{gwi:1009128}}

the full pic
{{gwi:1009130}}

As you can see there are many details, some scrubs here and there, a fence around the main deck... but there is nothing that really "completes" the picture. Perhaps a roof would do that?? Im not too keen on roofing the entire deck... I want an area where I can sit and have dinner when its raining, as well as a place where I can enjoy the sun... Lol, a japanese architect for hire somewhere?!?!

/Henrik
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
I managed to obtain a maple of reasonable size. I added it to the scene as you see below... Please tell me your impressions. I have a gut feeling that there is something wrong, something missing. I will add gravel close to teh deck and around the tree and wall of house...

{{gwi:1009131}}

{{gwi:1009134}}

any and all comments are appreciated :)

/Henrik
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
In case u wanna see some more overview pics, here are two more. Enjoy (or not)

{{gwi:1009135}}

{{gwi:1009137}}

what this scene needs is balance... And im not sure how to provide it....

kind regards
Henrik
Herb
18 years ago
Henrik,

I think that the impression of unbalance may come largely from the area's not being enclosed: the completely naked view of the neighbours' houses & cars is very distracting.

It's difficult to plan a garden layout unless the area is first enclosed. I don't know whether you're allowed to build a fence or a wall round your garden, but this is how I'd be inclined to begin. Just seeing a picture of it as an enclosed area may help you come up with ideas?

If you aren't allowed to have fences or walls, maybe hedges are allowed?

Herb.

Click to see the possible effect of a fence
gerald
18 years ago
That's a good step Herb, if there are bylaw issues ( and there are everywhere) just use single panels and plant heavily between them. And bring on the rock and mounding before any enclosure is added.

Now if that deck off the house could be moved into the centre of the area, perhaps a bridge or path leading to the "to be added" doors, or getting rid of it all together and installing a patio. JOJG had a good series on poor use of outdoor space and decks several years ago. Perhaps somebody knows the issue and Henrik could then have a look.

Keeping in mind, just because it is written in the vein of a Japanese garden decor does not mean that it only applies to them, rather, it's just good design and is applicaple to any good garden design.

Pinus sylvestris will indeed prune into a good open stylized shape. I'd start with a small one, work on trunk bends right away and then start the standard pruning technics. How about birch. How about Edzard- you live in a fridged climate, what are several good trees. Henrik, visit your local nursery, they'll have 6 or 7 trees that are common for your area and then choose from them.

Gerald
edzard
18 years ago
Gerald, /Henrik,
cedars for hedges or mountain trees (sugi), Techny - or Wares (wareana)
maples for landscape, Tatarica, Ginnalian, Douglas
Rhodo's/azalea's, Scandinavian strain Zone 1, blues, reds, oranges, yellows, there is of course PJM lilac shades.
Pine, nigra & sylvestris-French Blue recommended, Mountain pine- P. uncinata, Mugo of course, Jack pine, Lodgepole and crosses (monticola)
5 needle's - albicaulis or flexilis.
Spruce if one learns how to cut them...
Birch, youngii, --birch is not often used, though birch can replace the weeping maple in thought and texture, next to the dwarf, Trosts dwarf, extremely cut-leaf.
Crabapples abound in many colors, white to magenta
Pears, apricots, plums, --trilobas = Rose Tree of China
Fernleaf caragana -Sutherland,
Mountain Ash, 7 varieties 3 shapes
Japanese tree lilac & cultivars
Aspen replaces Katsura
Celtis occidentalis, Sumac, Cork Tree (amurense),
etc. etc.
were I /Henrik I would ask which landscape, - where,.. appeals and use a 3 level planting so that different 'sense's' of tree come out as 'cloud' or as 'green mountain chasms with cherries blooming', as long as his upper canopies gently arc with the insides adding the drama he seeks...
edzard
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
Thank you for your comments! I would really be interested in looking at that jojg article on poor use of outdoor space. Design is my favourite thing when it comes to gardens!!

Herb, that fence is really nice, but sadly I doubt I can add it in the neighborhood. I have to go for hedges instead. Just need to be patient with them :(

I bought some shrubs and maple trees yesterday, and will try and integrate them around the deck to provide an interesting and pleasing area... wish me luck!!!

Oh, my nursery also had some really cheap trees, like willows... Too bad I dont have additional water features... but I am considering on buying it anyway. 10 USD for a 3 m high willow is really nice ;)
More pics will come later!

/Henrik
Herb
18 years ago
Henrik (& Gerald) -

I just found a JOJG article that may interest you & have mentioned it to Erik - see my posting a few minutes ago in his New Member Question/Proposal thread.

The article's in JOJG issue #34 - is this the issue that you had in mind Gerald?

Herb
MrNorth4
Original Author
18 years ago
I have checked it out... Althoguh it is an interesting propsition, I really do want a deck ;) For me, this is the place where I sit and enjoy the garden, watching the sky, the sunset etc ... like a moon viewing deck that the katsura villa has. I agree that the deck shouldn't be an "island" in a sea of grass, but it should be naturally integrated into the garden by clever use of patios, perhaps a ramp of some kind...

The next design problem I have (when killing the unwanted views, is how to make the deck easily accessible from the "garden". As it is now, it feels like a platform.

/Henrik - who whishes he had an advanced degree in garden design
gerald
18 years ago
#24 was the one I was refering to.

Gerald
Herb
18 years ago
Thanks Gerald - it was interesting to refer back to. I then flipped through the earlier issues. My earliest one was May/June 98 - & now I'm surprised to see that according to the JG Resources site, there were only two issues before that. I'm going to see if I can get those two so as to have a complete set.

Herb

New project, need insight from fellow landscapers

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