Well, everybody on this forum is well aware of my opinion of ES, I LOVE IT!! Only year 2 here, but already about 3x3 (as of now, mid-June) and covered with blooms.

lsimms -- Just to clarify, did you follow Hayseed's recommendations in winter-protecting your ES and Penny Mac or did you let them fend for themselves?

Nope, nothing. That's what ES is all about. I did nothing, nada, zero in the overwintering category.

Thanks, Lisa for sharing. I'm always very interested in your observations since you are so close to me and we share pretty much the same climate.

When you said you were going to cut your Endless Summers to the ground this fall I wondered if we could somehow induce a bigger show of flowers in the first flush next year by our timing of the cutting down this fall. I cut some of my overwintered Nikkos down to the ground last September 15 and they were covered with flowers this Spring coming from the crown. Would I have gotten the same result by pruning really hard in October, in November,... Or does it matter?

I'm glad that there are hardy ones like Blue Billow and Endless Summer, but I expect I'll be overwintering more than ever. There are still so many unique and lovely hydrangeas out there that I can only enjoy by overwintering. I want'em all!!!!

Thanks. Hay.

Just for everyones information,,,haven't tried it but..a horticulturalist up here in balmy Canada (ha, ha)said that with Endless summer, you should cut it to half once the new growth is about 1 foot tall. This apparently doubles the blooms.

Too scared to try it but if my cuttings take and become mature outdoor plants, I may try it on one.

Wow, lots of food for thought. My only hesitation in cutting to the ground in September is that there's still a pretty good show going on...but it's not like I don't have enough plants to test it out. Will be a fun experiment to try it in each month. Will do and let you know.

AND, come to think of it. That Nikko hedge I keep talking about...if memory serves, they used to prune it back every year. I think they've been leaving it tall the last few years. Hmmm. Maybe that's why no blooms. Hmmm.

I bet a spring pruning would do just fine. Might control height a bit. My thought on that is that I've got those football-sized blooms that, now that I look, are supported on their stems...and NOT leaning on others for support. The new replacements are drooping from the weight of the blooms. Next year will be year 3 for them, their leap year. Maybe I'll try it on some of the more mature plants next year. Seems like pruning the outside branches like that would make sense so I get height in the middle and blooms on the oustide.

I'm like you, hayseed, I want them all, but gettin' too old to manage them well. Ha, maybe I'm just getting lazy.

Thanks for those good tips.

BTW, just saw a single rebloom bud on my Wisteria, Amethyst....on the sunniest part of the fence. Made my day.

Last year my best show was in September. 'Course they were in their first year, and it probably wasn't typical behavior. I'll be ever-so-interested to see what they do this year. I'm not going to protect my ES this winter, but I don't think I'll cut them down either. I want to wait and see how much die-back I have when I don't protect them.

I mentioned earlier that my gandfather cut his hyderangers way back-I said September. I was a kid and visited on holidays so I was probably visiting on labor day as he said that it was too early to split them. Never did get any, but would assume that he waited until late fall to cut plantings back. My stepmother has some of those that he shared and she said that they have always cut them down each year.

Oops. Forgot to mention he said to do that in the Spring when new growth is coming out.

Pruning most macrophylla hydrangeas does not work. Don't do it. Can't even tell you how many folks have approached me about the fact that their hydrangeas aren't blooming because my hedge is ablaze.

Do not prune your hydrangeas unless they're prunable. ES is prunable.

I have a Nikko Blue, 2 Toyko Delights, and a varigated form whose tag is long gone. I have flowers very low on the Toykos... nothing on Nikko or the varigated one (again).

I pulled up hay's overwintering treatise and this year I'm going to follow the cage/leaves program assiduously. My climate is the zone 6 maritime that should support them beautifully, but I'm in the N/NE orientation that can be tough; minimal snowcover some years and brutally cold, dessicating winds. Obviously, the hydrangeas need a little bit of "support". I was nodding in agreement to the discussion of microclimates... understanding instantly that it's different near the ocean, and spring comes much later to us than to those inland. Our oak trees are barely leafed out by mid-May, yet our first frost often doesn't arrive until November.

I'm actually looking forward to fashioning cages, tying up Hydrangeas, and gently layering on the leaves.

I must be doing something wrong with my ES. My ES die back all the way to the ground every winter; the old wood does not produce new growth. I have been so disappointed. I have no old wood to speak of and while the new growth is moderate, the shrubs are still the size they were when they came out of their pots.

They are currently in a moderately exposed location in the NE corner of my shrub bed. They receive some shelter from winter winds from supporting shrubs at the back of a 12 foot bed.

My neighbor is putting in a white vinyl privacy fence along my shrub border this fall. The ES are 6 feet away and will be SW of the fence.

My question is this: Should I try the overwintering technique or do you all think the fence will provide enough of a barrier? Maybe I should overwinter anyway (I am looking for an established shrub size of about 4 feet). Any and all suggestions welcome!

Brendave - my personal opinion is don't even bother overwintering. What is the point? E.S. blooms on new wood. I have mentioned in other posts that I did an experiment last season - winter protected some E.S., did not winter protect others. The verdict? The *unprotected* E.S did better in terms of bush growth than the winter protected ones. They took a bit longer to get up and running, they died to the ground, but once they started growing - look out! In contrast, the winter protected ones did not die to the ground, and the leaf growth that came out got nipped by cold weather, and that set the plants back. They still bloomed, and I'd peg blooming about the same number of blooms, give or take a few. So why bother winter protecting when you have a plant that *does* produce plenty of new blooms on new wood?

My opinion is - and I'm sorry if I ruffle some feathers here, but I've said it in other posts and it bears repeating - some folks are disappointed in their Endless Summer because they are expecting instant results. Bushes - any bush - take time to get established and reach full size and full blooming potential.

BE PATIENT!!! You all will be rewarded when you Endless Summers get established. Keep in mind the rule of thumb for bush establishment is three years. Some may establish sooner, of course, perhaps after two full seasons in teh ground. Don't expect jaw-dropping displays before three full seasons in the ground. And, hey, if you do get the displays that everyone oooohs and aahhhs over before then, well, then - enjoy! :)

Does anyone know how the ES does in a Southern California "winter"? Does it lose all of its leaves? I would love to incorporate one into the bed I'm designing, but the spot I have in mind is rather prominent, and I don't want to be left with a dead-looking bunch of sticks there for several months. Thanks!

I have three ES in different growing conditions and am not happy with any of them. I planted them last year and will wait to see if things change next year. If they don't get bigger or better I will have to move them in the perennial garden where other plants can balance out the shortcomings, instead of using them as speciman plantings or focal points. But this is how they are growing so far.

West Side of house: this one was a large plant going into winter last year about 2'by 2.5' It had many blue blooms and wilted everyday and was watered daily. Came back this year with 1 stem and one huge white mophead that has been on the plant for over a month. I did not water daily this season because I thought I may have rotted it.

Late morning to early afternoon sun: 2 plants were planted late last year and have had 1 nice long lasting bloom flush. However, they have not grown much more than orginal height from last year.

Northern exposure with very late afternoon sun: this plant had maybe 2" of roots when taken out of the pot. I almost returned it. It is the tallest and widest one I have with huge huge leaves, but has had only one bloom early on.

In my experince so far ES seems very tempermental and sensitive when it comes to sun exposure. So sensitive that 1 to 2 hours more or less sun exposure can change the whole plant. I think I will stick to roses for specimen and focal point plantings.