They are in my view every night. It does make me sad that they have to be closeted for the winter, but I have to do what is best for them. Downstairs gets too cool, with the hardwood floors and plethora of windows. Great for humans, horrible for tender plants. Hopefully, when DH retires from the Military, we can move back down to our home state of TX, where it is definitely warmer in the winter months, less rainy year round, and all together, just better for me and the plants! Except for 'nado season. Not looking forward to going through that again, lol.

I found flagellata difficult, and mine died soon after purchase even though it was in a humid heated aquarium the whole time.

But I don't think caudata is a challenging Hoya at all. I just think it is one of those Hoyas that has a long 'period of adjustment' after its environment changes (e.g. it is sold to someone across the country) or it is newly rooted. But then it seems to grow steadily, if not particularly quickly, like waymaniae. Plus those plastic leaves make it unappetizing to most of the Hoya predators. I bet yours becomes a firm friend in future years, GT. And if you want a fast-growing one, get the EPC-662 - it's a downright weed.

You know, since my move, my plants have been relocated to their own room, instead of living in the central living area in my apartment. I thought I'd really miss walking by them constantly, and part of me does. But I do get a kick out of having this one crazy room in my house that is 10x brighter, warmer, and more humid, than the others. It's like the door leads to an alternative dimension. I just need to put a puffy reading chair in there.

I grew Hoyas in a walk-in closet at one point. It was one without a door - just a wide opening and it was actually pretty enjoyable. I was woken up by the grow lights every morning and it felt less dismal and wintry in the bedroom. So, I don't think your winter setup is off-putting at all, Aurora.

I don't like having Hoyas full time in aquariums either, though. I have one tank for Hoyas and one tank for Dischidia and that's where I draw the line. My experience is that, because they need less weekly care in the aquariums, they become out-of-sight-out-of-mind plants. Plus, it takes you longer to notice when they are infected with something.

No clue if caudata 'Tioman Island' (IML 1687)is EPC 662 or not, but mine has been here barely over a month and has already put out a new leaf. It came to me rooted (too afraid to even attempt rooting it myself). All these EPCs and IMLs and SRQs, etc., enough to drive a woman insane!

For what it is worth here is a photo of where I cut my spartioides. It shows the stem with peduncles. The plant has now been chopped up so there is no turning back now. I will report back in six-eight weeks to say if the cuttings have started to root.

Looks good, Doug.

Accidentally, propagating H. spartioides topic popped up in one of facebook groups just hours ago (https://www.facebook.com/groups/182445921787495/854987271200020, for those who are on facebook), and here's what was said:

Katarina Stenman: Cuttings works fine! But as they grow quite slow there is a limited number you can do. Just cut the stem with a couple of stalks 4+cm long, insert into fluffy compost, water and cover with plastic bag. Wait........

Katarina Stenman: And the first few leaves will look like normal leaves then the plant start with the flowerstalks instead.

So, there you go.

Aurora and GG, I hope you see that I was not dissing anybody's growing setups or methods - just expressing regrets that some plants need environments so different that I cannot admire them easily. An aquarium actually does not fall into this category, because it has glass walls and can easily be set anywhere people congregate. (But I do not have one, yet.) A walk-in closet is also not bad at all, because of that "walk-in" part. But I had a few in rubbermaid containers and elsewhere covered by plastic bags over the last winter, and I _personally_ find that look an eye sore. But oh well, if one wants to grow something exotic, then they have to find a way and make it work.

> But I don't think caudata is a challenging Hoya at all.

Mine is at least holding on to all or most its leaves. Flagellata dropped them all.

> And if you want a fast-growing one, get the EPC-662 - it's a downright weed.

Oooo, that is valuable info, thanks, GG. Into my wish list it goes! I'm seeing if Ric has it - it looks like my next delivery will be from him, upcoming winter be damned!

I also grow sp. AP1122 Phu Wua, which is sort of in the same family, and that one has been problem-free for me so far. Not a fast grower by any measure, at least as a young plant, but it pushed out a leaf or two in several months, and all the old leaves are intact and look healthy. People who have grown it longer say it;'s an easy and fast bloomer, too. So, recommended to anyone who reads this and likes the caudata / flagellata types.

My caudata, the petulant one, is IML 0372. Although the accession number is not alone in determining the destiny and the character of how the plant will grow - the mother plant's strength and vitality and growing conditions all play a factor as well - it's just not clear to me for how long after the cutting is planted. For example, if the plant grew in a very sunny spot, I wonder how long it might sulk for me in decidedly less bright conditions.

> It's like the door leads to an alternative dimension. I just need to put a puffy reading chair in there.

Yeah! Do that! I would get a nice kick out of that if I were you. It's nice to be just in a bright room in the winter - even better if it's full of our favorite plants and pleasant blooming scents!

Greentoe, I have not been offended! Trust me, I am just as sad by the fact that I have to grow my beauties in a walk in closet over the winter! And, yes, rubbermaids are really ugly things to grow plants in! If I had the room for a rooting aquarium, I'd do it in a heartbeat! But with two kids, 5 cats (and many fosters in and out), a Great Dane, and a tortoise enclosure custom made for me by DH, I don't have room! The rubbermaid works, for now! Once it is spring, I plan on buying a small 10-15 gallon aquarium and setting it on a shelf, so caudata and flagellata (and any cuttings) have a nice, humid, sunny spot to chill out during spring-fall. I really don't think I want to risk putting flagellata outside with the other hoyas and am iffy about caudata. I will be trying with caudata, at least. It is humid enough here, but I am worried about the heat.
Doug, your spartioides looks GREAT! Crossing my fingers for you!

I didn't think you were being critical. I just thought it was an interesting topic, since it's been on my mind as I set up my new grow space. So I was just airing my internal monologue.

I know you weren't speaking about aquarium setups, but I introduced them to the conversation because I feel they pose a related set of downsides. They have transparent walls, so you can see the plants, but as it is harder and less frequently necessary to interact with the plants, you just stop seeing them. Like a seldom-used piece of furniture. I do think aquariums are a useful tool in this hobby, and I initially bought quite a few of them. But most of them I've stopped using for Hoyas, for the reasons above.

I also find my 10-15g aquariums too small for Hoyas, so I recommend you spend the space and money on a 30-35g tank. It's tall enough for longer cuttings on hoops, and a lot more fun to work with. And it's only around 6" longer than the 15g tanks. This is assuming that you are going to have water in the bottom of the tank, causing you to lose some height.

I haven't heard of the sp. AP1122 Phu Wua, but I'll try and remember it. :)

I really like that picture of your spartioides, Doug. It really makes the conversation a lot clearer, although I am enjoying Aurora's diagrams. Thanks for passing on Christina's strategy, GT. I wouldn't have thought to cut a section of multiple nodes, but it makes sense in retrospect (duh) lol.

I used to have a big aquarium with fish as a teenager. 40 or 55 gallons, if I recall correctly. It was a huge one! Larger aquariums are much easier to maintain in good conditions vs smaller ones, whether there's fish or hoyas in there. The microclimate in a big one is more stable, and there's more room (no pun intended) for imagination when it comes to decorating it, and the fish always seemed happier there than in my smaller one.

> it is harder and less frequently necessary to interact with the plants [in an aquarium], you just stop seeing them. Like a seldom-used piece of furniture.

I am thinking another benefit of a larger aquarium is that you can make it not only functional but also very pretty (lesson to be learned from orchidariums, with their light zones and beautiful driftwood decor and lots of plants on multiple layers). The beauty of it all and the increased number of plants in there will lead to your wanting to check it out more often. Hopefully.

> I haven't heard of the sp. AP1122 Phu Wua, but I'll try and remember it. :)

I first saw the blooms on facebook. AP is Apodagis's accession number. Collected in Phu Wua Wildlife Sanctuary, Thailand. Very vigorous. Blooms only at night. The flowers close before sunrise and reopen again after dark. They last only 2-3 nights. In 8 months from cutting, it bloomed twice for Carol.

They should be popping up more and more in trades and sales, considering how fast they are reported to grow.

Funny story about aquariums - When I was in my tropical fish phase, I had over 35 aquariums ranging in size from 180 gallons down to 5 gallons. I had so much water weight on the floors in the house that I was living in at the time that the floor in one room settled 2 inches.

This past summer, I needed to buy an aquarium to accommodate an H. imbricata that I had purchased on ebay since I had long ago divested myself of every tank that I had ever owned. I was very happy at picking up a really nice used 30 gal tank with stand for only $25. I then bought a piece of edge polished plate glass for the top, which I could slide back and forth to adjust humidity levels. The glass cost $50, or twice the cost of my tank. Within 5 minutes of adding the glass top, the 150 watt HPS lamp that I had carefully hung over my set up, shattered my new glass top. It had gotten too hot for it and I had to pick shards of glass out of the plants for days afterward. I then ordered a piece of tempered glass for the top for even more money.

For a while the plants did very well in the tank, and then they started to fail inexplicably. I took the plants out and cleaned the tank all up, and there is sits empty. I have maintained some nice terrariums in the past, but they all had access to some natural light and this one did not. I don't know what caused the problem, but I am not currently using an aquarium for Hoyas. I do hope to try it again at some point.

Doug

Doug, that is just wow! 2 inches of settling! Wow! Another reason I am not keen on aquariums is because of shattering glass. When I was a little girl, the same thing happened with a light and glass on my aquarium housing my black molly fish. The lamp shattered the glass and a shard hit my leg, causing a pretty good slice. And my fish, well you can only imagine the carnage. They were all at the top because I had just fed them, so only a couple managed to not get hurt or killed. DH was actually going to build a tank out of glass for my tortoises and I vehemently told him no because of this. My tortoise cage is built of wood, instead, with an acrylic window in the front. The top is chicken wire. The photo is before the top was secured on, and yes, that is a cat in with the torts. She doesn't poop in the enclosure, thank goodness, but she LOVES to sleep under the heat lamp!
I am slowly acclimating my caudata out of the rubbermaid it is in. I think it may do just fine, after reading up more, snuggled in with the other hoya plants. Flagellata scares me, though! I am afraid to even do more than water and inspect for bugs! After my very hardy meliflua dropped the baby leaves it had (I didn't touch it! I just looked at it, I swear!), it makes me even more nervous, as flagellata seems to be putting out a set of leaves right now (little green bumps showing up on the sides of a node)!
In other news, I am about to put in an order to Jack at Epiphytica. This will be my first order from overseas, so I am nervous, but am sure it will be fine! The cost of phytos seems to have gone down from last time I checked, and shipping is reasonable!

@ Doug:

Oh, that is a tragic story!!! I totally feel your pain. You must have just cried when you found that shattered glass. Makes the various moving-related Hoya problems I'm currently dealing with seem like small potatoes.

I can also relate to the mystery of the failed aquarium. The 30g aquarium I currently use for Hoyas works well. It's currently in front of natural light but it hasn't historically been. But I have this one total booger tank and everything I put in it dies or fails to thrive. It looks identical to the tank it's sitting next to, but it must have been cursed by a PetSmart voodoo priest or something. I'm getting ready to pull everything out of it, sterilize it, and set up a fresh group of test plants to see if I can get it to work again.

I had to laugh at you sinking your floors with all the tanks. When I moved into my last apartment I had nightmares about the floor giving way for weeks, because I had so many dense belongings.

@ GT:

It hasn't really occurred to me to grow Hoyas in a scenic terrarium-like way (although I do have a number of mini Gesneriad terrarium landscapes), because
(a) it was originally a rooting aquarium, so the plants sit on eggcrate and extend root systems into the water below
(b) I'd need a much much larger tank to grow the species I have in there, in an artistic way, since they aren't small-leafed species.

But the more I roll the idea around in my head, the more I like the idea of getting a couple more 30-50g aquariums and doing a series of scenes. You know, one with the lasianthas and praetoriis. One with the caudatas. One with the patellas and hypolasia. Maybe I'll do that someday.

My Dischidia aquarium is pretty, even though I didn't intentionally make it so. It's just because I grow them mounted on bark with moss. So it ends up looking like a zoo display that should have an exotic bug in there somewhere.

@ Aurora

Oh no! An even sadder story! Poor little guys. :( I can't even imagine what I would do if that happened to me.

Love the cat + turtle photo. I almost missed cat2 peeking in. Of course they wouldn't waste a good warm spot on poop! :)

Good luck with your Epiphytica order! I hope it goes really great! What did you pick?

Aurora,

I too absolutely love the photo of the cats in with the tortoises. I would not trust my particular cats in such a situation; yours must be very well behaved indeed! I would also be afraid of glass if I had received a cut like you did as a child. Good luck with your Epiphytica order. I placed an order for six plants from Jack over the summer. I did not make out that well with only 2 of the 6 surviving, but I will probably try it again at some point even though I seemed to be cursed with bad luck when it comes to Thai orders.

GG, You cracked me up with your PetSmart voodoo priest line - My laugh for the day:)

Doug

I ordered:
EPC 654 (mindorensis pinkish orange flowers)
EPC 272 (mindorensis yellow with red corona)
EPC 501 (sp. NS-05-213)
EPC 766 (caudata 'Gold')
EPC 108 (sigillatis)
EPC 705 (sp. UT-033)
EPC 912 (sp. NS-05-240)
EPC 889 (sp. Khao Soi Dao)
EPC 722 (sp. SR-2009-xxx)
EPC 851 (sp. UT-223)
EPC 241 (sussuela yellow corona)
EPC 926 (wallichii-the true one)
EPC 900 (nicholsoniae X parasitica)

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Mon, Dec 8, 14 at 20:01

I love peeking at other people's Thailand or other rare species orders - thanks for posting the list, Aurora. I got a couple of wish list ideas from it. And speaking of caudata types - I see a few there. Nice.

There are 13 cuttings - don't you need an import permit if you are getting more than 12?

> The cost of phytos seems to have gone down from last time I checked, and shipping is reasonable!

How much? I do not remember the amounts when I looked, but I remember the cost of each cutting increases substantially when you account for those two things.

Doug, I think I just got a cut in my hand just reading the glass shattering story. Shudder. But to me that was not even the most notable part. Over 35 aquariums, Doug?!! You don't approach your hobbies lightly, do you? :-)

GG, I would not know how to make an aquarium landscape pretty with large-leafed hoyas. They take up a lot of space, so that would just require a "walk-in" size of aquarium. I was thinking small leaf hoyas only, even for a relatively large tank.

Although orchid growers sometimes have these closets with glass doors that are rather large and can accommodate larger hoyas, I would imagine. There's a lot of room for imagination, and a lot of opportunities for lots of dollars to leave your wallet. :-)

LOL GT... that is the exact point I was making up above! We have specific Hoyas that don't perform well outside a humid environment, and they happen to have large leaves. They get dibs on the aquarium space unless, like Doug's previous life, we have 36 aquariums lying around.

Picta? Burtoniae? Panchoi? Heuschkeliana? Most Hoyas benefit from extra humidity, but nobody needs to grow their small leafed Hoyas in aquariums unless they just want to be cute. The only small-leafed Hoya I can think of that would benefit from an aquarium is curtisii. But my curtisii is a giant! Because that's the other thing about small leafed Hoyas. Their leaves are the only thing that's small about them. They grow just as long and tangly as the large leafed Hoyas, so it isn't exactly like planting a mini Sinningia or a mini Orchid in a terrarium. All Hoyas are tangly willful wild devils. (p's. That's what I like about them.)

Actually, I think I have a solution. I'll take some miniature people, stick them amongst the hurricane of vines, and pretend it's a scene of humans exploring a gigantic alien jungle. Does that work for you? ;D

This post was edited by greedyghost on Tue, Dec 9, 14 at 12:08

@ Aurora

That looks like a great list! You're definitely making me feel the itch to order. I ordered the caudata Gold a while back and I remember I was so nervous I was going to kill it because it's like... caudata... mustard yellow... eeeeeeeee! But caudatas are so great to import. They are tough.

At $3.75/plant shipping & phyto, it IS more expensive to import plants from Thailand than to buy them in the U.S. It's a nonsensical activity though, to compare what a commonly available Hoya would cost there, versus here, though. The whole point of ordering from sites like Epiphytica is to get your hands on plants that you have little to no opportunity to obtain here. You can trade with people who have really good collections, or you can buy from vendors like Joni who import a lot, but you are dependent on them liking the same types of Hoyas as you. I mean, nobody's saying Epiphytica is a bargain basement. But if you already have a well-stocked collection, and space is at a premium, it is worth it to get the plants you really want at a higher price point.

$10 phyto and $40 EMS. I have a valid import permit (PPQ 587), so getting more than 12 cuttings was not an issue. There aren't many perks to being the wife of an Armed Services member, long days and nights without my hubby, stress of deployment, stress when he comes home, but one of the GREAT perks is the fact that I have a Government ID, which makes it a bit easier to obtain permits issued by the Government. It was a pretty simple process, log in, create a level 1 account, ask for it to be upgraded to level 2, get the authentication email, wait for the phone call with questions (so many questions) to verify ID, then the 15-45 day (took 25 for me to hear back) wait to see if your permit was approved. I like the e-permits, because labels are at my fingertips, now.

It's good to have an import permit. That allows to effectively buy cuttings cheaper, as the certificate and the shipping costs can be spread out over more cuttings. 12 is sort of a low limit. When I'm ordering, I like to jam-pack that box - about 18 to 22 have been my order size in the past. But as the collection grows, I am sort of more particular about what I like, AND it's becoming harder to find all that in one place in the US, so my orders may get smaller - and a Thailand order may be in the future, both for the reasons you talk about, GG.

Le us know how those babies arrive and how they grow for you, Aurora.

Will do. Only have room right now for the 13 (make that 14, if you count the one Jack talked me into!*) I ordered. I am awaiting my shelving units to arrive so that I can expand my collection. I looked through Jack's list about 15 times (lol) and only found 11 more, aside from the 14, that I really want. As he receives new ones, I will probably add.
I have a "thing" for the fuzzy/hairy-flowered hoya, hoya with veined or dark leaves, and hoya with extreme peduncles, which is reflected in my list.
*Jack talked me into adding hoya lyi (the true one) to my list. It has fuzzy leaves (can't seem to tell which google image is the real flower) that are a nice dark green, which I like.

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Fri, Dec 12, 14 at 13:30

Epiphytica site does not have enough pictures for the hoyas they sell - sometimes no flower pics, no leaf pics and sometimes neither. So, that's been another thing that held me back with them.

But even then, I would easily be able to find two dozen or more cuttings that I'd like to get from them. lol

Fuzzy flowers I understand (and also like!) - and also fuzzy leaves, too, by the way. Veined leaves are also my favorite. But what are "extreme peduncles"? :-)

Hoya lyi is a cutie. In addition to corolla lobes being fuzzy, they are also an adorable light purple color, rather unusual. And this is in addition to highly-hairy leaves. Love it all.

The round white corolla (very reflexed) flowers you see in google search is Hoya rotundiflora, which for a while was sold under incorrect name of Hoya lyi and up until recently was known as Hoya sp. Square.

He was sooo right to talk you into the Hoya lyi. That's one of my favorite Hoyas. It is so cute you will die. It grows pretty fast, too!

Oh I know rotundiflora is not lyi. I have it. And it's flowers are so adorable. What I meant by extreme peduncles...think waymaniae. Long!

Hi Aurora...did you receive the overseas plants? Jimmy

Not yet. They were shipped Monday. Priority Express International. Says to expect in 3-5 days, but if it gets held up in customs, it may be a bit longer. Hasn't updated since it left the central mail center in Thailand, so I am assuming that the portal it has escaped into would be US customs.

Aurora - when I ordered from Thailand last summer, mine got pulled by customs, but it only took a day, wasn't a big deal.

Btw - even though many had yellowing leaves when they arrived, everyone of them are doing well now.

Nice list btw.

Renee

Hope they arrive in good shape!i had no idea they shipped Priority Express International.I had an order ship EMS for 40$ and it took over
2 weeks..2 of the 12 plants did not make it( thin leaves),but i could not afford the 200$ air freight cost! Jimmy

I may have picked the wrong time to get them shipped (Holidays). The status changed Thursday to Inbound into Customs, and hasn't changed since. Hopefully, it is just on USPS end (their tracking is not reliable, have had packages scan accepted and then not scanned again until delivery, as well as other issues), and they aren't stuck in Customs. Never know, though. The USPS person I spoke to did say that PEI (Priority Express International) does move quickly through Customs and to expect my package early next week. We will see. Getting excited!

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Sat, Dec 20, 14 at 18:23

It will be a perfect Christmas present for you.

I have to admit that your thread was making me itchy, went to Epiphytica's website the other day. I've been able to resist so far......

Good luck with them

Renee

Just a quick follow up to the original topic of this post. It looks like Hoya spartioides can indeed be easily propagated through stem cuttings just like any other Hoya. I can see strong root growth on one of my cuttings and the two others probably have root growth as the plants look strong above the soil line.

Doug

Aurora, what city do your plants go through customs in? Somewhere in California, I assume? I've found Chicago to be quite fast, even during the holidays, but I think if you get stuck going through customs on either coast it can be 2 days slower!

Doug, that is fantastic news!!! I'm glad you didn't sacrifice your interesting plant in vain! We sure learned something new from this thread - it's good Aurora started it.

This post was edited by greedyghost on Tue, Jan 6, 15 at 21:55

Greedyghost- plants arrived on the 29th of Dec (if I remember correctly). They went through LAX, and customs did indeed open the box. All but one arrived in excellent condition.

Doug- two of my cuttings have roots, as well. They are a direct stem cutting and the cutting I made using only a bit of stem. I will post pictures soon. Right now, I am in the middle of moving all of my plants to their new location. I am also re-potting them into some orchid pots I got from a wonderful guy named Harry who owns an orchid nursery in Oregon. My birthday was the 3rd and my husband bought me 236 of these 3.25 inch pots and 13 trays!

I hope you are as good at shopping for him as he is at shopping for you!!

I am glad stem cuttings worked for you both, Doug and Aurora! Maybe Thai vendors spread the rumor about tissue culture only to justify their prices. Yeah, because a conspiracy theory is the only feasible explanation! :-)

> a wonderful guy named Harry who owns an orchid nursery in Oregon

Ha! I love Chula Orchids, too! I am expecting my own pot-and-tray (mostly) delivery today, as luck would have it.

Those 3.25" pots are favorites of mine (and a local orchid friend's who we combined orders with. And GreedyGhost's. And Joni's of SRQhoyas.)

I am also getting the 5.5" pots from him, for those hoyas that grew up to that size. And I am going to try Air Cone pots, but getting those locally, cheaper. Good times. Can't wait to put all that stuff to good use.

Happy belated birthday wishes Aurora! I'm super happy that your spartioides cuttings rooted as well. It is also exciting to hear about your new pots and trays. It is 14ð here in VT as I write this with tonight's lows predicted well below zero. Isn't great that even in the dead of winter we can tend our gardens. I feel sorry for people who don't have plants; what do they do with all of their time?

I couldn't agree more, Doug! We had a storm last weekend, with aggressive winds and arctic temperatures, and instead of being productive** and repainting my bathrooms, I shut myself up in my toasty and humid grow room with a book and a teapot and I felt so so so sorry for everyone who doesn't have such a happy green space in the heart of their home.

**Well, I did technically water the plants...

Greedyghost - I do spoil the husband rotten. I actually think he secretly supports my plant addiction because it gives him the opportunity/excuse to play with electrical doodads (he is licensed to do it, so that is a bonus) and build stuff (like my awesome new hoya shelves!!!).

greentoe - Good luck with your order! I can honestly say that these pots sure beat the plastic cups my hoya were previously housed in! And thanks for the congratulations on successful spartioides propagation. I will secretly agree with you on the Thai conspiracy, lol!

Doug - thank you for the belated birthday wishes and the congratulations to us both for successful spartioides propagation! I have to agree that I feel sorry for anyone who cannot bring a bit of nature inside their homes to bring some much needed greenery (and flowers!) in the dead of winter. I cannot say that I envy your weather/temperature, though! Anything below 68 degrees gives me a serious case of the chills!

*edited to add a photo of my awesome new shelves!

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Wed, Jan 7, 15 at 14:45

Dangit, Aurora. I think you need to stop showing off your husband now. (à ©­à ¥ â¾á·Âá£â¾ᷠ)à ©­à ¥Ââ¾â¾

GG, it must be splendid having a cup of tea in your humid grow room - I wish I could beam myself down and join you!

Aurora, I am officially jealous of that awesome setup. It is really spendid and incredibly well thought out.

Doug

Me too, Doug! Teleportation has always been my favorite superpower/magic.

/ma "Teleport-IA"

LOL. It was not terribly expensive to build. Thanks for the compliments, I shall pass them on to the Mr! I can actually fit four trays on each side of the "L", that is 16 trays total! I just don't have that many (yet)! I have got orchids coming in the mail (another birthday present from DH), so I will be putting them on a shelf, too. He still has to hang up the last T-8 fixture (another quad light that can be daisy chained into the top light) and I have two more dome lamps to hang on that bar on the bottom left shelf, and then it's done!

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Wed, Jan 7, 15 at 17:12

Those are some good-looking shelves, Aurora!

A couple of ideas come to my mind. Take them or leave them, as they say (or critique them - that is even better!)

Have you considered placing the trays perpendicular to the shelves, so the edges stick out on one side or both? I do that on my stand and I find it useful. It allows to use the space more effectively (more square footage than the surface of the shelves, basically), it gives plants in different locations on the tray different levels of light (a good thing if you grow plants with different preferences), and it gives those plants that stick out more vertical space.

Do you water in place or take them tray by tray elsewhere to water? If in place, does the water flow onto the lower shelf?

So, the pots are in the carrying tray, which are on the shelf, right? This is a bit too flimsy to carry, I found. Harry also sells these solid trays in the same size (with drain holes or without), and putting all that into those trays works really well for me. Careful with those solid trays though - I bought some that look indistinguishable on Amazon for half the price, but they turned out to be ridiculously flimsy, even for the lightest of pots, mixes and plants, and even for half-empty trays. They had to go back. Harry's trays are more solid, and if you or somebody needs even more solid trays, then get Permanest trays (elsewhere, Chula does not sell those) - those are indestructible, but also much more expensive.

In addition to more rigidity to the whole structure, I've grown to like solid trays as the bottom layer because roots grow into there. At first I was disappointed because moving plants from one place to another, is more difficult now, and those wondering roots might die if displaced. But is it really better if they did not grow in the first place? Or if they circled the bottoms endlessly when there is no easy exit from the pot? I sort of like the idea of those roots socializing with their neighbors in there.

Another advantage of the solid trays is - you can leave a bit of water in there as the source of re-absorption by plants and of humidity.

Perfect timing - my and my friend's tray / pot order is here. Later.

Okay, so we are waiting for more solid trays to arrive. I have my humidity loving ones already in a solid tray.

To answer your question about carrying, I will be carrying the plants to water them in the laundry room shower. We were originally going to use the computer room, but it works better as a playroom, and the play room (really an extra living room) works excellent as a reading/plant room. It is 18x16...plenty of room to expand LOL!I find that even carrying the carrying trays is difficult, so my husband made this for me:

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which works like this:

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Makes the trays even easier to handle.

If you look underneath each shelf, he has made a built in plastic drip liner. It is the white part that kind of sags. This catches all water that might spill. It slides out for emptying. It also could probably act as a humidity tray (this thing is solid, we tested it for leaks).

I can rotate the trays perpendicular and there will be no overhang (the shelves are 26 inches in depth (from the wall) and 2 feet in length on the left, 6 feet on the right. I prefer them to be the way they are, for now, because it makes it look like I have more plants, LOL!!!

This post was edited by AuroraWA on Thu, Jan 8, 15 at 0:37

Here is a close-up of the water catching trays:

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From below (yep, already got stuff in it):

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And a few more pics of the setup:

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This post was edited by AuroraWA on Wed, Jan 7, 15 at 18:50

That's so neat about the drip collector! So far I am most jealous of that innovation, but I'm sure your electrical-doodad-loving man will come up with something else for me to envy soon.

This was my solution to collecting drips:

GT - isn't it interesting how some plants quickly develop those water roots to take advantage of the surplus water in the tray and others never do? I like those roots a lot because they keep the plant firmly anchored in the tray and can give the whole group more stability. I don't experience plants falling out of my tray when I'm moving them around as much as I used to**, but all these little things add up.

When I have to move the plant I'm a bit ruthless and it does lose some of its water roots, but they regrow them very quickly (the manufacturing costs must be cheaper. ;P) I don't think it's quite as bad as chopping off soil roots.

** But last week I was watering my plants and set a flat too close to the edge of the table. When I rotated the next flat, it knocked the first one off the table and all the Hoyas and draining water went flying! I probably lost 6 flawless finlaysonii-type leaves that day and it really bummed me out throwing them into the trash like garbage. I was thinking, Ahhhhhhhhh! You thought you were so clever putting similar type Hoyas together, but I bet you wish some of those fallen leaves were vannuatuensis and paziae instead of allllll finlaysonii and meredithii and kalimantan...

Argh, sorry about your accident, GG! Frustrating!

Aurora, thanks for all those pics! They are indeed worth a thousand words. And your husband is worth his weight in gold for making all those shelves and trays and stuff for you.

> I prefer [the trays to be lengthwise], for now, because it makes it look like I have more plants, LOL!!!

Ha! I did not think of that! A totally legitimate reason. Space to grow - nice.

GG, I love your drip cleaning device! My solution is much less adorable, or creative:

Resuscitating this old thread...

I am preparing for a talk on the topic of Hoyas to my Indoor Gardening Society (very excited), and of course I want to mention H. spartioides because it is so unusual. I found this research paper (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1439609208000433). Actually "found" is a funny word - it was only the SECOND google search result for the species search, so it seems like a lot of people have read that article.

Anyway, this species is even stranger than we all discussed here. A couple of strange things are happening. First, the plant's xeromorphic shape (barely any leaves, smallest possible surface area of plant tissues, water storage capacity of the tissues) suggests adaptation to living in dry tree crowns – except it grows in the low tropical forest. That is a puzzle why it does that.

Second, the authors found that this Hoya produces zero nectar, unlike every single other Hoya species known. Instead it has some strange SOLID substance to attract and possibly reward pollinators. They suspect that this trait evolved to possibly to conserve water in the dry environments that it's supposed to grow in - but doesn't.

When it comes to traditional nectar-producing gland and related flower parts, they have atrophied in this species and end in a dead end (literally, as some tissue has grown and blocked the nectar pathway). Those parts seem here to serve no purpose whatsoever, like a human appendix.

This is really super-cool. The article is super-dense on scientific lingo and pictures that I have zero understanding of - but I am glad I sort of plowed through all that to get some glimpse of what I can understand.

Thanks so much for posting the link to this unbelievable article. To fully understand all of it, I think you would need a PhD in Botany, but there is a lot of interesting material and the photos are pretty remarkable. I will be revisiting it in the future.

I have known of hoyas my whole as years ago my dad raised them. I have some starters from his because a friend kept them while I traveled and moved around she has one of his that is over 100 years old. I am trying to build my line of hoyas like he did. if you have any to share I would be greatful. I do not know what kind I have but would share pictures.