But take into consideration, Tora, that the Hoyas we get from HD are either the smaller Hoyas or the very common ones (variations of carnosa such as rubra variegata and such...) I've bought rooted cuttings of less common Hoyas on eBay and have been sorely disappointed (especially when I consider the price!) I'm very impressed with this vendor, and hope to be able to report back in 6 months that I'm STILL impressed!

Denise in Omaha

Wow Tora, you go girl,

I too was wondering did you have to take a 2nd mortgage for these or perhaps sell one of your children?

A haul & a half ya got there, congrats to you!!!

This, the vendor whose name can't be spoken (hum, wonder why, bit afraid to ask) from Hawaii? If yes, I may have answered my own Question.

Gorgeous lovelies there, esp. the oddly colored one; the one pic I couldn't acess was caudata.

May your new haul live long & prosper, eventually all bloom & give you lots of new expertise for you to come back & share/teach us.

Thrilled for ya vicariously!!!

PG Karen

Pirate Girl, they are indeed from the vendor in Hawaii.

BTW, "you go girl" should probably be "you go boy"... I'm a guy. ^_^

Ah, another good reason to sign with your REAL first name! The "tora" part made me assume feminine, too. Maybe it's Jim? It would be interresting to know what your screen name means - and other's for that matter. Karen, what's Pirate Girl mean to you?

Denise in Omaha

Jim, we presume, you are a lucky duck! I'm sitting here very green with envy! That's quite the haul....WTG!

Diane

ps.... what is the big deal about not mentioning the vendors name or site?

No Denise, I'm not Jim either... I prefer to remain anonymous! ^_^

As for my screen name, it simply means tiger stripes in Japanese and is a pseudonym I've used on the 'net for years.

Diane, I'm not sure why we can't mention this Vendor's name, but if you do a google search for "hoya big island hawaii", it will be the top result.

Diane,

My understanding is they "spammed" GW when they first started selling. (I've never seen it myself, though.) So GW banned all mention of them. If you try to use their name in your text, when you go to submit it will refuse to let you do so. Seems dumb to me... Anyway, once you know who we're talking about, go to Garden Watchdog (hopefully they won't refuse to let me mention that!) and look at their track record over there. It's very impressive, which is why I took a chance. I'm usually pretty leary of spending that much on plants if I don't know who I'm dealing with.

Denise in Omaha

Cool, that explains a lot:-) Thanks for the info!

Diane

I'd forgotten what that had been about, the original incident (Hawaiian vendor, etc.), I just remember the general dustup (sort of).

So Tora, you go BOY! So sorry abt that, now that I see the pix again, I can look at your hand & see it's not female, but can you blame me? Of course I was looking at the Hoyas, not the hand, ;>)

Denise,

Pirate Girl is 'cause when I 1st came online to plants (abt 5 yrs ago), I had Bell's Palsy & had to wear an eye patch for a few months. Some little neighbor kid remarked that I looked like a pirate (the eye patch was black of course). Being on the sober & serious side in real time, I liked the moniker & thought it might give me a lighter hearted, more playful persona for my online self; so far it's served me well!

Also, I don't often run into many or similar pirates or like-named handles!

Ah sweet! I was reading the thread thinking, "Please give some indicator as to where to look into buying!" Such suspense about vendor-who-shall-not-be-named. Thanks to Jim-san (sorry, couldn't help myself! ;) and everyone else!

Thanks for the great info for ordering plants. How long did it take for them to arrive in the US?

I've ordered lots from the same vendor and received gorgeous hoyas. Plus, it's great to receive something from Hawaii..

Susan

Torajima,

Beautiful viaregated Macrophylla!! May I know Which vendor?

Cheers

Hey Jim-

How is the sigillatis doing? I have that one on the top of my list. It looks like one of the ones that are just barely rooted cuttings, but considering you recieved them in the spring, have you had any significant growth?

Unfortunately, the sigillatis is dead. It's the second of my rooted cuttings to die, and probably won't be the last. Fortunately, most of the larger plants are doing fine. The Macrophylla just started putting on new growth, and cv Christine even has a penducle forming.

Suprisingly, cv Optimistic has grown the most. One vine has only grown 5 inches, but the other has grown 5 FEET! Not sure why they are growing at different rates.

The plant formally known as Nong Nooch (I believe I received something different) is also doing well, and I've even rooted a leaf that fell off the plant. Time will tell if the leaf puts out new growth...

Sorry to hear about the sigillatis. That picture really captured me; it was a beauty!
I got my 'Christine' from Carol, also-- last year. It started blooming late winter/early spring:

{{gwi:952451}}



It's a thirsty bugger when it's blooming. I recommend keeping an eye on that. It takes more water than I would have thought to keep the buds from blasting.

Torajima,
I recently ordered from same vendor. I was thrilled with last year's shipments (3), though I did loose a pentaphlebia within a month of receiving it, it had dead roots, and was filled with root mealies. I tried again with the same vendor this year, and received pretty puny plants.....like you 2 are dead, one I have had to cut from the roots that were attatched and am attempting to save it in water with VF-11 added. I am not a novice grower and am very frustrated with the fact that 3 of my plants are dead vine. There was a time that I would have highly recommended this vendor, however that is no longer the case. I am sorry to hear of your losses. Did you contact her for any kind of refund or reimbursement? I didn't, but will be very hesitant to order again.
Sara

No, I haven't contacted her... mainly because I can't be sure the losses aren't my fault. The larger plants (which I've repotted and placed outdoors) seem to be doing fine.

The only plant I might contact her about is the Vitellina... it seems to be infected with something (small holes appeared all over the leaves a couple of days after it arrived). It's currently in quarantine, but I may just trash it... not worth infecting my other plants.

You know, I think I may let her know about mine. I have only had mine a month, and 2 are dead, the other I seriously doubt are going to make it. I cut the vines on all 3, to attemt to re-root, and discovered lots of dead roots just infested with root mealies when I went to clean out the pots, for later use. I scrubbed my pots, and then proceeded to bleach them. To be sure that it wasn't my fault, I checked ALL of my other plants....no small feat, as many are large, and lots are hanging. No mealies. To be safe, I dosed everything with bayer rose care 3-in one. You might want to try it on your vitellina, it is an insecticide, fungicide and fertilizer all in one. It has cleared up a rust infection on my aff. finlaysonii, received from same vendor. If you decide not to keep the vitellina, please let me know, I would be happy to purchase it from you, plus pay for shipping. All of my plants are kept strictly indoors, just for that reason, I am too worried about bug infestations...aphids and white flies seem to be in abundance here this year, and I don't want to risk infesting my hoyas.

I would definately contact someone who sold me a plant with any problems, especially if I checked all my other plants and saw that the problems were not spread from them. Root mealies don't infest a plant to that extreme overnight, do they? I have heard that some vendors will send you the good stuff the first time, so that they can be sure you will reorder. Why they don't care after that point, who knows? Maybe the numbers are good enough when you can be sure of at least 2 orders from each customer that contacts you. If I were a grower, I'd be concerned about my reputation, though. I'd want to hear about the problems and be given the chance to make things right.

Just a heads up, I did contact this vendor, and she was very helpful, very willing to work with me - is going way above and beyond. This is a very tough year for bugs, and though I was disappointed, I was looking for advice. The healthy plants are very nice, and my previous year's orders are amazing!

I have a friend who received an order from this seller and when he went to re-pot them, the roots were dead. Needlessly to say he was not pleased with his order and will not order from this seller again. I've heard of others who've had the same experience and one person who complained was told by the seller, she would not sell to them again. It's very poor business practice, if you can take the compliments about the plants, you should also be willing to accept the complaints.

You know islandshoyas, while I was told everything would be replaced, and on, I am hearing different things now. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I'm surprised to see negative comments about our unnamed Hawaiian vendor! I got my second order and was astounded at the size and good health of the plants. I always repot new plants as soon as I get them - all roots looked perfectly healthy. All have put on substantial new growth and one even popped a bloom within 10 days. I can't imagine that the vendor wouldn't replace a plant that was infested with root mealies or had dead roots. I'd be interested in the exact response the recipient(s) of such plants got from the grower...

Denise in Omaha

I also got 2 different orders from her this summer with about 10 plants in each order, and all the plants were large and lovely. All roots were fine and some of the plants were even blooming. I have no complaints on this vendor at all.
Marcy

I have bought plants from growers and had different results, I guess it depends on the plant, the time of year, which greenhouse the grower pulled the plant from. The point is, what will the grower do? Not every plant will be perfect, though virus's and root mealies are a little scary, but when someone orders a plant and winds up with these problems, as a grower I'd go above and beyond to fix the problem and keep the customer. If I became defensive or refused to replace the plants, then i guess I'd have to accept the consequences of others finding out.

Just wanted to pop on here and try to set the record straight....

I have received over 40 plants from Carol, of those plants only 3 had problems, that was in this last shipment. I contacted her by e-mail and most recently this morning by phone. I wanted her to know that I appreciate what she is willing to go to to make sure I am getting more than my money's worth ....She is replacing at no charge to me the three plants that did not make it, she has refused twice to let me pay for 1/2 of the purchase price, and would not let me pay for ANY of the shipping charges. I feel more than partly responsible for not popping the plants out of pots immediately upon spotting the leathery texture. I don't repot immediately because transitioning from HI to MT is hard enough, in my opinion.

This shipment was also the first time that I have ordered cuttings. Just to let everyone know, my motoskei flowered while in water rooting. My verticillata (4 very generous cuttings) rooted AND had new growth within 3 weeks, and is still growing like a weed.

As Carol said in our phone conversation this morning, plants are living. Like people they get sick, get fungus, and also become hosts to a variety of pests. You get medicine and get treated. Throwing away a plant should be a last resort. I would not kill a person who had ringworm or athlete's foot.....would you?

She let me purchase another plant (with a box coming I felt the need to fill it up), and is barely letting me add for the cost of shipping with this one.

In the history of her business selling plants, she told me this morning that she has only had 4 problems, I am the fourth. I was not refused future service, but I am also not trying to take advantage of her.

Hopefully this is not taken in the wrong way, as I hope my previous posts weren't. It is hard to be understood in e-mail and forums as there are no voice tones, facial expressions and general physical means of communication that accompany a message, thus leaving perhaps too much open to misinterpretation.
Sara

I just thought I would pop in a say that I too have purchased from that unnamed Hawaiian hoya source, and I have been very pleased with my plants.

Like torajima I have received a small number (three to be exact) plants that had dead roots from that seller (mind you, I've purchased nearly $1,000 worth over the course of nearly three years).

Each time this happened, I sent that grower an e-mail with my concerns and I was immediately given an apology and a new plant was sent out with no additional shipping costs or anything to me.

I have never been told by this grower that she would not sell to me.

I suppose it is possible that those customers who are refused additional purchases might have attempted to take advantage of the seller in an effort to obtain more plants for free. It just seems a little fishy because if a person is truly disappointed in their purchase from a store, why would they want to go back and buy more from that same store?

Ann

Wow Ann where would you get a supposition like that? I do know for a fact that the person she has refused to sell to has brought hoyas from the vendor for over 4 years and has spent more than $1500. I just find it hard to believe that all of a sudden that person would try to obtain free plants. Now that's what sounds fishy to me.

Whoa now, islandhoyas, lets not make this personal!

I was just pointing out my experiences with the seller & wondering why someone would want to continue to purchase from a seller if they are constantly disappointed with the merchandise. That's all, no innuendo, not trying to start anything.

I certainly wish for lots of blessings and healthy growing hoyas for everyone!

Ann

Nothing personal my dear, just like you I was just wondering:-. As my favorite Dr. Phil would say, I don't care how flat a pancake is, there is always two sides:-)

As a good friend of mine used to say - THREE sides : your side, their side, and "the truth".

Rumours abound about this grower, good and bad. Those that love her really love her, and those that don't - well, you know. It gets viscious! And personal, for some reason. I guess that is why it never pays to get too friendly with the people you do business with.

Well, my goodness, that sounds like an awful lot of politiking over houseplants.

Ann you are so right, but you know how we are about our plants! Just like everthing else in life everyone has an opinion which we are free to express about whatever, thank goodness!!

Sure, islandhoyas, but houseplants?
Oy Gevalt!
Ann

Yes Ann even houseplants-). If you check out various plant forums you will see the same thing, be it, hoyas, cactus/succulents, or tropicals. Opinions, differences and disagreements abound!! And that's okay too, while I may not agree with everyone's opinions, I do respect their right to them, regardless of what the subject may be, everyone is entitled!! Like your first post, which you popped in to give your opinion, that is your right to do that. Life would be so boring if everyone thought, acted and wrote the same, diversity is a good thing!!

Well, just so long as the viciousness and personal attacks that ines99 referenced can stay out of it, I am all about bringing in the opinions - especially when it comes to the best way to take care of these darned critters. Sometimes, I have one that flourishes and the same one, right next to it, looks like it's about ready to collapse and die. I swear, some of the hoyas that look tender and frail are as hearty as can be, while some of the ones that look hearty and the most finicky plants that drop their leaves if you move them an inch. But, the blooms certainly make babying them worth it in the end.

I think it has to do with money as well!! Cuttings and plants especially aren't cheap, and the grower we were speaking of has a pretty high shipping cost too. So many people are out to rip others off, I can see where it can get stressful when the plants arrive and there are problems, especially because they are living things and so much can go wrong. Sellers can easily blame the buyer and sometimes do. And sellers probably do have to contend with buyers who take advantage, or even lie about the condition of the plants. It can be hard not to get defensive and worried about being the next person to get burned, on both ends!

Yes, I do feel badly that we have to pay such a high price for shipping, but since they come from Hawaii, do we really have a choice? I have purchased plants from people who are literally 100 miles away from me and it's taken the USPS 3-4 days to delivery a priority mail package (in fact, I'm waiting for some cuttings that should have arrived today, but of course, did not).

At least this way, our plants arrive a little bit quicker and in better condition than some of the poor little creatures I have got through regular mail (an imperialis from Texas barely made it because it got too dried out in transit). When I sell plants on e-bay, if the winning bidder wants it shipped FedEx instead of USPS, I have to pay for the box as well as the shipping cost (which sometimes runs and extra $2-$3, depending on the size of the box I need).

Ines, I guess what bothers me is the tone that started to develop on this thread (but thankfully did not get any worse) - it's the same tone I have seen on another, less friendly, forum in which there seems to be a small cadre of people who have decided they don't like the seller in question, and, when given an opporunity such as the genuine concerns people were expressing here, one or more gets onto a forum like this and trash-talks this seller (while contributing nothing to any other area of the forum), then just disappears until the next controversy comes along that they can exacerbate. In the meantime, people's genuine concerns about costs, quality, etc. are lost in the shuffle and an uncivilized air surrounds the forum.

I guess what I am saying is that I believe you are most certainly correct - it boils down to money with some politics thrown in. But, it is just unfortunate that 1) people don't state their concerns to whomever they purchase from, 2) if the shipping costs are high, try and find someone to split the bill with by having more than one person go in on an order together larger order (like many of us do when we purchase from the Australian seller David Liddle), 3) try ordering small numbers of plants from many different suppliers and see which one provides the best bang for the buck. I have yet to find a hoya seller (ebay or nursery) that I have ever been terribly displeased with. I have purchased from folks that clearly mislabeled their products, and I have purchased from someone that take 2 months to send cuttings. But when I have been concerned with the plant(s) received I have always contacted the seller immediately upon seeing the problem and I really have not had any complaints about the outcome. I have purchased locally from someone that charges too high of prices for mismarked plants. I stopped purchasing from that person for that reason. If I don't get what I paid for I don't go back to that seller, but I also don't turn into a Rovian political operative trying to poison the well either.

Ah, well, live and learn :-)

Ann

Ann you have to pay for your shipping boxes from Fedex? I've never had to pay, I either order them online or pick them up from the FedEx store. I'm surprised they would charge you unless you're operating as a small business. This is what is listed on their online site: FedEx offers a range of free, easy-to-use shipping supplies for your convenience. Your order will be shipped for delivery typically in 2-5 business days.
If you need supplies immediately, use FedEx Locations to find the nearest FedEx World Service Center® where you can obtain shipping supplies.

I read over the posts and was unable to find the one you reference to about the viciousness and personal attacks that ines99 referenced . Has that post been deleted? One thing I have learned is that we can only control ourselves and how we react to situations; we can't force what we would like to happen on others. Nor can we force people to do, say or act the way we would like them to. Complaints, bad experiences, angry customers are a fact of life when people choose to run a business. Just as the owner has the right to refuse to sell to someone, that same someone has the right to tell others about their experience with that owner. Ah, well, live and learn :-)

Yes, islandhoyas, I have been charged for the boxes. That's why I said I was charged for the boxes. Although, I haven't ordered them online as you obviously have. I go to their local store, so perhaps that's why I have to pay, but thank you for providing me with the information. Do you have a link to the website you referenced? I would be most appreciative of this.

I guess I wasn't clear in my previous post, so let me try and simplify my language a bit: It is a hostile tone of voice, as well as deliberate targeting of particular people by those who offer no or little other contributions to other areas of a given forum that I find to be distasteful.

Hopefully, this will clear things up for you. Meanwhile, I would very much appreciate a link to the site whose text you copied here, so that I can save myself a trip the next time I sell something on ebay, and so that I might access those free boxes.

Thanks so much,
Ann

When I mentioned visciousness and personal attacks, I didn't mean just this thread, I meant it was typical of alot of discussions/threads about certain growers.

Doesn't Priority Mail arrive 99.9999 percent of the time in 2, 3 days at the latest? And it's relatively inexpensive..

It is very true that alot of people only come "out of the woodwork" on these forums when there is a disagreement or some sort of negative discussion.

Sorry Ines, I didn't realize that this had happened before on this forum. Not too often I hope.

USPS priority does come most of the time within 2-3 days, but there are times that it doesn't (USPS doesn't guarantee the 2-3 day delivery - it's essentially first class mail for packages larger than an envelope). For example, a nice lady that lives quite literally 2 hours away sent me some cuttings priority mail, but tomorrow will be day 4 of my wait for what I hope will be cuttings that are still alive.

I typically read the shipping and handling charges before I order. For example, there is an online nursery that has spectacular hoyas for sale, but I don't purchase from them because they have a minimum shipping and handling charge of $20.00 and each additional plant adds more cost to that S&H charge. I have a feeling (and I am NOT suggesting that this is anyone on this forum) that a lot of people don't pay attention to these charges until they have already commited to buy, then its often too late (especially on ebay).

Nonetheless, the point of the people who started this thread is valid - there are certain expectations that we have that should be met when we make a purchase. Like you said before, we are dealing with live plants and all sorts of things can go wrong. So, as long as the dealer refunds the purchase price or provides a replacement if it was his/her fault, then everything is fair - regardless of future decisions to buy or sell to a particular person. My local tropical plant store has a three-day only return policy - if the plant drops dead on day four, I'm SOL. This three-day time limit came about because people would purchase a plant, not take care of it (or improperly care for it), then try and return it saying something was wrong with the plant two weeks later. The owners got tired of this and said "after three days its yours good bad ugly or dead".

I do hope dealers take these kinds of discussions to heart, because it is people like us on these forums that purchase their product. It's always good to reassess costs and charges in an effort to find a way to reduce the cost to the consumer whenever possible.

Ann

No, Ann, I didn't neccessarily mean there was any unpleasantness on this forum, I haven't been here that long to know for sure, I just mean amoung hoya groups in general.

Any plant will still look ok 3 days after purchase, unless you do something like put it outside in the cold or sit it in front of a heat vent or something like that. I would think it is extremely hard to have any kind of return policy on a plant, when so many things could go wrong. If I were a vendor, I think I would know by talking with a customer if they know what they are doing and base it on that. Also, these venders have to have that sort of thing (cost of replacing dead plants) worked into their bottom line, knowing that every plant is not going to make it, and that it may be no ones fault when it happens.

Oh well, I am sticking to cuttings. Much easier/less traumatic/less expensive to lose!

Ines I agree with you about cuttings, they are easier and and less expensive to lose, plus it's awsome watching them grow into plants. There are several places I know of that sell cuttings, if you're interested just email me.

Islandhoyas - I'd be interested in knowing the sellers of cuttings, but there's no link on your "My Page" to e-mail you. Perhaps you could e-mail me with that info...

I just wanted to add that sending a box to or from Hawaii via Priority Mail takes a day longer than to the continental US. I assume this is why the vendor sends FedEx next day.

Denise in Omaha

Denise just in case you didn't receive my email, here are some vendors that sell hoya cuttings: Bob Smoley, Ted Green and Maggie's Hoya's.

Well, I have heard of the first two, but where in the world is Maggie's Hoyas? I tried googling it and got nowhere.
Does she have a webpage?
Marcy

Marcy I've never ordered from her but Deb has. She will email you her hoya list. I will email Deb and see if she still has her email address.

Torajima,
Just wanted to let you know that Carol replaced the three hoyas that did not survive, promptly, and was super nice about everything. Initially I was intending to ask the best way to revive the plants that were not doing well, but was told that I should not have to revive new plants, and that all would be replaced at no cost to me. The plants I received were all quite large, and very healthy. This in the midst of an aweful heat wave to boot!

I was in no way made to feel that the plants failing were my fault, and I was able to add a plant also, not charged shipping for that plant, just the price of the addition. (it was a big heavy latifolia too)
Awesome customer service! Thanks Carol, you are the best.
Sara