Whenever anyone mentions having a problem on eBay, I tend to say too much.
I used to be an eBay seller. I was pretty good. Supposedly by my feedback, I only ever had one dissatisfied customer out of almost 600. Neutal not negative. Most of mine were repeat customers too.

The sad fact about eBay is, there are a lot of people selling on there who are not really professional nursery people. Not that its a life-requirement for anyone who sells a plant to own and operate a nursery...BUT is IS the law in all 50 states and the US territories.

To sell plants, especially when shipping across state lines is involved (and even in some states like CA and FL, across COUNTY lines) one is supposed to be registered with their state's Agricultural Dept and have routine and regular inspections of their nursery stock conducted.

Many of the people on eBay who are selling plants are just backyard gardeners selling their overage.

Herbs-Mint-4-U sounds like it may be an actual nursery operation. I couldn't find them on eBay to look and see what state they mail from. But if they sent you a plant that was infested with destructive sap sucking insects, they have broken the nursery law of their state and yours, and could be open to prosecution.

Do the boxes they send to you have "nursery stamps" or tags? Little ditties on the box that say that the contents has been inspected and okay for shipment? Do the papers they send have any documentation of their nursery license number? If so, all you have to do is call the Ag Office in your state and take the plant with the bugs for them to see. They can take action against the nursery. Just the THREAT of that (even if you have no plan to follow through) will probably be enough to get you a refund.

There are 5 states and one US territory that are "hot states". These are states that have extremely stringent plant importation and exportation regulations. These are TX, AZ, LA, CA, FL and HI and the territory of Puerto Rico. TX, FL, CA because they grow so much of the countries food. HI because they export pineapples, orchids, bromeliads and scads of stuff for the florist market. AZ: I have no idea why they just do. PR because they are an Island country that doesn't want to get infested with pests it has no hope of getting rid of. If your seller is from one of these states, or you live in one of these states, and they are not a licensed state inspected nursery, then both of you could conceivably be prosecuted. And PLEASE don't say "That could never happen". It can, and it does. The USDA watches sites like eBay. There was recently a case of a seller that sold a plant from the endangered species list. The seller and buyer were contacted, and the plant was confiscated after the sale. From what I understand, it was an EXPENSIVE plant, that the seller had raised from seed. But that didn't matter to the Plant Police. No renumeration was made. I do not know if there were charges filed.

I had a similar experience to yours from an eBay seller in California who mass markets palm trees. They are licensed. They sent me the wrong palm. It came on a day when it was pouring rain from a severe thunderstorm that was coming through in advance of a cold front that was going to drop us from 80 to 35 in the span of several hours. I got the box late in the PM, opened it, hurriedly potted the plant and stuck it in the greenhouse barely looking at it.

Later in closer inspection I realized it was the wrong plant, and emailed them. They emailed me back immediately, saying that they were sorry they had mixed my order up with someone elses and would I please mail back the plant and they would send me the right one. I refused to mail it back. I told them the truth:
#1--its almost an hour round trip for me to the post office
#2--it was already potted up
#3--we were in the middle of freezing weather
#4--their OWN POLICY stated that they would never ask for plants to be mailed back...PERIOD.

I asked them for the correct plant.

They kept INSISTING I return the other, and that they would send me the correct one PLUS a nice freebie for my trouble.

I said, send me the right one, I will keep THIS ONE as my freebie.

That's when they started getting downright rude and insulting.

After a little research, I discovered why...the palm they had mistakenly sent me, they sell for $45. The one I bought sells for $8.

They would not stop harassing me to send it back, so finally I just said, LOOK, I know the nursery law. This plant has already been potted up, in FLORIDA SOIL, and has been sitting ON THE GROUND ON FLORIDA SOIL.
It would be AGAINST THE LAW for me to send it back to you in California, because of #1 the burrowing nematode quarantine and #2 the Imported Fireant Quarantine.

I told them to stop bugging me to send it back.

Their reply? They left me POSITIVE FEEDBACK because they were afraid I would turn them in.

Bihai,

That's some very interesting information. I must seem completely naive because I was not aware of any of that. I had no clue that you had to own a nursery to sell plants on ebay...very interesting. The seller I dealt with owns a nursery, and they actually wanted me to send back the plant so they could use it as a "stock" plant.

The boxes they sent to me did NOT have "nursery stamps" or tags, and there was never anything on the box that said the contents were inspected and ok for shipment. No papers or documentation were sent either.
HOWEVER, I took a look at Herbs-Mint-4-U's store on ebay, and if you click on the link "about the seller", it does say that they are a registered nursery in Medina County, Texas, and they give their license number. It also says that they are certified and inspected by the Texas Dept. of Agriculture. Does that make up for the fact that I received no documentation? Either way, my Obovata doesn't have the bugs anymore (I got rid of them, for now at least, with a soapy water treatment)...so I can threaten them but I can't actually take my plant to my state's agricultural office (unless they would take the pictures I took as proof).

Well, I'm glad you posted all that information. It is important for people to know, and I'm glad I now know this.

You did a great job handling the seller you bought that palm from. Kudos to you. Any suggestions as to how I should handle these people? Should I threaten them with calling the agricultural dept. and let them know I have their license number from their ebay site?

I attached the link to their ebay store site if you care to take a glance.

Thanks so much,
Gabi

Here is a link that might be useful: Herbs-Mint-4-U

Bihai,

That's some very interesting information. I must seem completely naive because I was not aware of any of that. I had no clue that you had to own a nursery to sell plants on ebay...very interesting. The seller I dealt with owns a nursery, and they actually wanted me to send back the plant so they could use it as a "stock" plant.

The boxes they sent to me did NOT have "nursery stamps" or tags, and there was never anything on the box that said the contents were inspected and ok for shipment. No papers or documentation were sent either.
HOWEVER, I took a look at Herbs-Mint-4-U's store on ebay, and if you click on the link "about the seller", it does say that they are a registered nursery in Medina County, Texas, and they give their license number. It also says that they are certified and inspected by the Texas Dept. of Agriculture. Does that make up for the fact that I received no documentation? Either way, my Obovata doesn't have the bugs anymore (I got rid of them, for now at least, with a soapy water treatment)...so I can threaten them but I can't actually take my plant to my state's agricultural office (unless they would take the pictures I took as proof).

Well, I'm glad you posted all that information. It is important for people to know, and I'm glad I now know this.

You did a great job handling the seller you bought that palm from. Kudos to you. Any suggestions as to how I should handle these people? Should I threaten them with calling the agricultural dept. and let them know I have their license number from their ebay site?

I attached the link to their ebay store site if you care to take a glance.

Thanks so much,
Gabi

Here is a link that might be useful: Herbs-Mint-4-U

Gabi,
the nursery laws are very clear on the issue for every state. Usually, it runs something like this (paraphrased):
"Nursery stock means all plants, plant parts, cuttings, scions, bulbs, and any other part able to be propagated..." and "anyone sending them is a nursery person and needs a license if for sale..." TRADES are a very VERY gray area.

and then further:
"each bundle, parcel, etc of nursery stock shall be labeled clearly with the following:
point of origin, name of seller, name of buyer, nursery certificate number, certificate of general inspection, and stamps for any applicable quarantines..."
Some states even require them to list each and every species of plant in thebox individually.

Since this seller is from Texas, they are in a state that is clearly under the Imported Fire Ant Quarantine area of the US (along with about the whole southern tier of states) and unless they are following a strict treatment program at their nursery and are specifically inspected for IFA, they are not allowed to be mailing SOIL. They would need a special IFA stamp on the outside of the box.

If YOU live in CA, FL, LA, AZ, HI and some other states. they cannot mail plants with roots or "any plant part produced at soil level or underground" due to the burrowing nematode quarantine...unless all their stock has been individually tested and approved. They would then need a separate stamp on the outside of the box for this.

Texas REQUIRES all nurseries that send plants out of state to certain states to have their plants INDIVIDUALLY INSPECTED by a live inspector and a phytosanitary certificate issued. This usually costs me $5 when I order form a Texas nursery.

If you are receiving boxes without nursery tags and papers, these people are probably not following the law, depending on where YOU live.

Bihai,

I'd like to thank you for taking the time to give me all that information. It's not only helpful to me, but to others buying plants from Ebay. Also, now I have a leg to stand on with these people. They did the wrong thing, and I will try again to get a refund on the item.

By the way, I live in NY (not one of those states mentioned). But it seems like they still did not obey the laws in quite a few areas. They DID send me the plant with soil, and no nursery tags or papers were sent.

I hope enough people read this and stay away from these people. Not only because they are breaking the law, but because they are completely unprofessional, send plants with bugs, and they do not refund money on plants with bugs!!!

Thanks again Bihai.

Gabi

For anyone who may be interested in knowing the laws that govern their specific state as far as importation and exportation of plants is concerned, here is a link to the website that has all the regulations by state. Just go to your state and choose the format you would like to read it in.

I use this website to determine when and if I can make trades with people in different states, and when I sold plants, I used it to determine if I could legally mail a certain thing to a certain place. But the set of regs I used then were all written between 1999-2003. Every state has been updated now, and several have increased the stringency of their regulations.

Its interesting to note that some states define the people covered under their specific set of laws as "nurserymen" for COMMERCIAL PURPOSES of selling only, and some define their laws as applicable to "ANY PERSON" and include ALL plants/plant parts, not just those for sale. So where does that leave a trader? Very gray area.

This is the major reason that I stopped selling plants and turned in my nursery license. It just became too difficult to keep up with all the rules and regulations. ALso to keep up with keeping all my plants pest free all the time, and treating the greenhouse for ants and whatnot. And all the record keeping!

You will note if you read the NC regs that any plants that don't meet their criteria will be summarily destroyed if found. No apologies, no renumeration to the shipper etc. I am certain there are other states like this as well.

eBay has a link to this website for all people thinking about selling plants on their venue. However, they decline any further responsibility other than to just direct potential sellers to the site. They do not at this time require sellers of plants to present their nursery certificate credentials to sell on eBay. However, they most likely should. How they get around liability, I have no idea, but I am sure that their immense legal system figured it out a long time ago.

www.nationalplantboard.org/laws/index.html

Gaby,
New York has easy regs compared to SOuthern and Southwestern states. It gets too cold there for the imported fireant, but even so, Texas is one of the states under quarantine for it, and they are supposed to have that certification to be able to ship soil out of the state.

New York does require all shipments of commercial nursery stock to be accompanied by "an unexpired inspection certificate issued by an authorizing official from teh state of origin" attached to each package...this is what is known as the "general nursery stock certificate". New York also requires packages to be tagged with the notation "LIVE PLANTS" and with a list of varieties contained in the box.

The 4 big pests that NY regulates affect grapes, pears, all vegetable plants and the pine shoot beetle. Its too cold there for nematodes and ants.

I looked at that site, its surprising that a seller that is obviously such a large scale retailer would not take the time to follow the law and tag their packages appropriately.

I agree...I'm surprised that Ebay doesn't have more regulations on the sale of plants. And I just don't understand how this seller hasn't gotten caught yet. And their feedback is good...it makes sense though, because even I left positive feedback (who would've known I'd find a bug infestation 12 days later!). It's unfortunate there are sellers like that out there. Thanks again for all your information Bihai.

Gabi

Just thought that I would log in, and give my 1/2 cents worth of an opinion.......Personally, as much as I HATE pests (I have over 150 different hoyas, all grown indoors, many hard to find and replace), I have realistically come to the conclusion that they are a fact of plant growing life.

I order the majority of my plants from various vendors...HI, ebay, David Liddle in Australia.....and am personally VERY glad that the rules and regulations that govern plant shipping across state lines aren't followed to the "T". I would be very sad if my ability to get nice, rare and varied hoyas was brought to an end simply because someone had a bad experience with an ebay purchase.
Just think of all of the "rules" out there that people don't follow, and how tedious life would be if all the little daily rules broken on a regular basis were enforced fully on the roads, in work places etc.

I agree that perhaps that particular sellar wasn't practicing the best customer service, but that picture of your obovata looked like a pretty nice and healthy plant to me, and you did say that the bugs are now gone.........I think it is perhaps more realistic to assume that most plants DO have something when you buy them ( aphids, mealies, spider mites, thripe, the list is virtually endless, and if there are eggs or very small pests, they are often missed by the naked eye). Many growers recommend quarintining new plants before introducing them to others. I personally shower all new plants that I get, pop them out of their pots to check the roots, and treat with systemic, whether I find a pesty or not. Better safe than sorry.

Sara

It is unacceptable to sell a plant that has known bugs. In this case, I know it was known (from the emails sent). And if the case were that it wasn't known, they should have refunded the money as soon as I brought it to their attention - period.

As for the laws, it is good to know what they are. Will I still buy from sellers who don't follow them to a "T"? Yes. There are certain sellers who I trust.

And I don't think I should have to assume that there are bugs in my plants when I buy them...that never happened to me and I hope this was my first and last time. I understand that it happens, but the seller should take full responsibility.

I don't think you have to worry about not getting rare hoyas anymore. This was just an informative post...nobody is calling the authorities on all plant sellers.

Sara,
I mean no disrespect, really, but since you also do not say where you live, its hard to know what you exactly have to deal with as far as plant pests are concerned.
Since your favorite forums are houseplants and hoyas, I am assuming you live in a state with a colder winter season. Of course that assumption may be wrong.

The spread of plant pests is a very serious thing. I am not talking about the occasional aphid, mealybug or even spider mites. These are ubiquitous in all the states and there's not a lot that can be done. They will never be eradicated.

But there are other pests that are localized to certain areas or states that need to be kept there are not allowed to spread. The Southern tier of states and the Far West (CA) harbor pests that could be devastating to the agricultural industry if they spread. Others, like the Imported Fireant, and a severe nuisance.

The spread of the IFA has been well documented to have spread from state to state by being physically transported through contaminated soil across the South that was largely due to the ornamental plant industry before they realized what was happening.

Citrus diseases and pests anr another major concern...it has long been a FLorida law (and I believe a CA law as well) that no citrus plants can be imported or exported out fo the state except by stringently controlled commercial growers. The latest threats to citrus here, the Citrus Canker and Citrus Greening, have been pretty devastating. It got so bad in South FL that the various county authorities were going into people's private yards and cutting down trees affected with citrus canker and burning them in an attempt to keep it from spreading. And homeowners had no recourse. This is one of the things that the USDA watches carefully. They watch eBay, they watch forums like this one, and they make every effort to stop backyard gardeners from illegally selling citrus plants. This is a FEDERAL quarantine (ie its a FELONY to do this, not a slap on the hand if you get caught.)

Now the South, especially FL, is dealing with a new form of scale that attacks cycads. Its resistant to conventional treatments and is thought to have come from Asia in the hold of a cargo ship with a shipment of ornamental plants. Botanical Gardens have seen their collections of rare plants affected very adversely, and it is spreading North now.

The other side of the same coin is the spread of noxious and invasive weeds. I think the North has a permanent ban on Purple Loosestrife. The SOuth has issues with stuff like water lettuce, water hyacinth, air potato and a ton of other invasives. A few years ago in Texas, it was a $2200 fine, PER PLANT, for anyone (commercial or residential) found to be growing water lettuce or water hyacinth in a private body of water. I know someone there who owned an aquatic plant business and he said that they showed NO MERCY because those plants are so destructive and were wreaking so much havoc on the environment that they had to start being tough.

We have been dealing with these 2 invasives in FL since the 1930's when they were imported, as ornamentals, from Brazil. They don;t die in the South in the winter like they do in the north. They just multiply until they kill off the ecosystem in entire bodies of water.

Its a much larger issue than people realize. The authorities try their best to catch things at the source (the Ports of Entry) but they can;t inspect everything. Miami has a team of dogs called the Beagle Brigade that sniff out hidden plant material. But they can;t sniff every shipment in the whole system.

As someone who loves plants, its your responsibility as well as all of ours to try to do the best thing and not contribute to the spread of pests across state lines. I think you'd be very sad indeed if one day, a "NEW" pest came to you from somewhere that decimated your entire collection of plants that you had spent so many years collecting and so much time on, and you could do nothing to stop it.

A message posted by Garbo14, in the Hoya Section on Gardenweb
I have been struggling with whether or not I should put this info up, but I feel the need to just make you guys aware of the situation so you can decide for yourselves if you want to deal with this seller. I just don't want this to happen to anyone else.
And I want to set some facts right that Garbo has refused to mention
Herbs-Mint-4-U is a seller that I've recommended in the past. They sell many hoyas. I've bought smaller hoyas from them that weren't too bad (but not too good either).

Garbo has bought a total of 4 other hoyas from me, and here are the Feedbacks for them, read them and then YOU decide what the statement she makes "I've bought smaller hoyas from them that weren't too bad (but not too good either). "

Dec-13-06 11:18 Great seller! Great packaging, fast shipment, great plant. A++++

Nov-29-06 14:12 Super fast shipment, great seller! Will do business with again.

Nov-29-06 14:12 Super fast shipment, great seller! Will do business with again.

Oct-26-06 08:32 Fast shipment, very pleased with plant, A++++++

Anyway, I bought that 8" basket of Obovata from them that had aphids on it (I posted a pic of the aphids a few weeks ago). The aphids appeared about 12 days after receiving the hoya, and I've never had bug problems, so it didn't come from any of my other plants.

Gabi admits in her emails that 1. Her plant arrived with nothing wrong. 2. She found aphids on it after 12 days in her Apartment. Her Hoya was delivered as per the delivery confirmation, 11:40 AM on February 28, 2007 in WHITESTONE, NY 11357. she gave me positive feedback the following day, "Great communication, always pleased with this seller. A+++++++ Mar-01-07 09:29"

Anyway, I contacted the seller expecting them to refund my money....I even sent pics of the plant with the aphids on them. They told me they'd refund the money if I first packaged the plant "exactly" like they did and sent it back to them.
And heres the e-mail I sent her
Gabrielle

Wrap it like you recieved it and send it back, we will refund you both the costs for the plant and shipping both ways.
And then her reply
I was hoping you'd just refund the money. I don't want to go through the trouble of trying to wrap it the way you did. I don't have boxes or styrofoam and I have no clue how to wrap a plant. I've had 2 problems with plants I bought on ebay from other sellers (not even bug problems...just that the plant was not in good shape), and both sellers refunded me the money without hesitation. I didn't have to ship the plant back. I thought the pictures would be enough evidence that there are aphids on the plant. I'd rather throw the plant out than go through the trouble of sending it back. Thank you anyway.
My Reply
You asked what my policy was, and I told you, I don't know who else on ebay does what they do, this is what I do for returns. Send the item back and I'll refund the costs of the items and S/H both ways.

Anyways the post office gives those boxes Free of charge and the tape and labels. Jusst set it in the boxes and stuff newspaper around it, simple. Yes, the pics shows aphids, a little soap and water will kill them. What else was wrong with the plant??

Her reply
I know I asked what your policy was, and you have every right to make that your policy. It's a fair one. I just personally would rather not go through the trouble. It's easier to just eat the money. Nothing else was wrong with the plant. Like I said, only the aphids, but I've never dealt with bugs and would rather not have the plant in my house....it kind of grosses me out! It's no problem. I understand you have your own return policy. Thank you anyway.

My Reply
Why did you wait 12 days to report a problem??
Her Reply
I don't see why you are being nasty with me. I'm trying to be polite and explain to you that I understand your policy. I'm not arguing with you at all...I'm simply telling you that I'd rather not go through any trouble of returning the item. Everyone has their own return policy, and I was hoping yours would be similar to other sellers I've gotten plants from....but I understand that you have a different policy and it's a completely fair one. As for why I waited 12 days, if you read my initial email I stated that I just found the bugs yesterday! There was no problem when I first received the plant except for a knat or something flying out of the box. But until yesterday, the plant seemed fine. I just don't understand why you're coming at me like this when I'm trying to be as nice as possible about this situation.

Anytime I've had an issue with a plant, sellers have WITHOUT QUESTION refunded the money and never asked me to send the plant back! Bottom line, they sold me a plant with bugs which could have affected ALL my indoor plants!
Now we are getting to the Jest of this "they sold me a plant with bugs which could have affected ALL my indoor plants!" Who is They?????
So I nicely replied that I expected a refund, and that I didn't want to go through the trouble of sending it. I thanked them and told them I understood their policy (just to not make waves). They continued to harass me and tell me to "just put it in a box...is that SIMPLE enough for you?". Not only were they extremely rude, but they were so upset that I wasn't returning it (I don't know why, because I wasn't even arguing with them about their policy!), that they accused me of trying to SCAM them! They said that MY plants had bugs on them and it infested the Obovata, and that I was trying to scam them into giving me my money back! I won't get into the

So I wanted to make you all aware of this situation, because I'm sure some of you have bought plants from these people. So BEWARE of this seller!

So heres to Gabi and all her Hoya friends on Gardenweb.

Point out to me, were in the emails that I have been extremely rude?? upset that she wasn't returning it?? how obnoxious and rude they were, but it was just disgusting. ??

Terry

I've bought some plants from you they've always come to me in top quality. Something like that can tarnish a sellers reputation and I don't want to see that happen to you. So to all that read the persons topic I say ignore it there is nothing wrong with this seller at all. If you got bugs 12 days later maybe it was from your area or your house, don't you think they bugs would have been present when you opened the box? Anyways this person is a great seller and thats my opinion.

HERBS,
You did not put ALL the emails on here and you know it. You left out EVERY email where you accused me of SCAMMING you. THAT is where you were extremely rude. But of course you left those emails out. I wish I saved the emails but I didn't. Why don't you post those, Mr. Herbs-Mint-4-U???? And I think it's quite obvious on the emails you posted that I was nothing but nice and respectful of your policy, but you kept emailing me back and wouldn't leave me alone, probably because of your conscience (knowing you sent me a plant with bugs).

HoyaGuy,
You just joined this forum and I know you're a seller on Ebay too, and I really don't think you know anything about the situation. Who are you to say that the bugs are from my house or area? I have NO bugs on any other plants! And bugs CAN show up 12 days later...why do you think people quarantine their plants for a few MONTHS after buying them?? And no, the bugs were not seen when I opened the box...do YOU see bugs everytime you buy a plant? No, but they still can show up days or weeks later. You are entitled to your opinion, but believe me, people won't "ignore" this topic like you asked them to. His reputation is already tarnished because of his customer service approach.

Thanks Gabi,

you've did it again, just like I said you would in my emails to you. But you are doing yourself in now by posting what you did about me and my business with you. You've just violated GardenWebs, Legal/Tos/Guidelines and now GardenWeb is aware of what you did.

Remember when I told you that you should remember what you say in previous posts, NO you didn't.

Remember when you signed up for Gardenweb you checked a box saying that you agreed with thier legal tos, since you did agree with it you might want to re-read if, even if you didn't read it in the first place, but you must have since you checked that you did when you signed up for GardenWeb.

Go to: http://www.gardenweb.com/legal/tos.cgi Scroll down to Paragraph 6. Guidelines, then scroll down to the 3/rd item and read it.

You agree not to send via the GardenWeb Network or post on forums or any other place on the GardenWeb Network any message or material of any kind or nature that is unlawful, harassing, libelous, defamatory,

You also posted a link to my ebay Store in a 'harassing, libelous, defamatory' manner without my permission, This will be reported to GardenWeb soon also.

You know, you are really bothersome and you don't make much sense.

I did it again? Did WHAT again?

I did nothing defamatory or harassing...not in the least. I am not afraid of your threats. I have been a member here for a short while and I posted this thread to warn my Gardenweb friends, since many buy from Ebay. I see nothing wrong with that, as I did not lie about anything. There are many posts on here where people ask if a seller is reputable or not, and members don't get kicked off for sharing their experience with that seller (whether it's an ebay seller or any online seller). We have every right to discuss our experiences with sellers, whether it's negative or positive.

When I first joined, I put a post on here listing some sellers on ebay that I liked, just to share with other members who use ebay. Well, on that post there were people talking about other sellers BY NAME and telling of their negative experiences. They are still here. Many people have also talked about their negative experiences with online sellers. They are still here.

So I'm not worried in the least.

Obviously someone made you aware of this post. You signed up to this forum to make yourself look "better". Well, you made yourself look worse. You're doing the same thing that you did in your emails...if you look at my FIRST reply, you can see that I tried to end the conversation. But you wouldn't let up. I really don't think you're wanted here, because it's just to start trouble. You said your piece, now leave it be.

Just one more thing...
You said I "posted a link to my ebay Store in a 'harassing, libelous, defamatory' manner without my permission". Actually, many people post links to other's sites without their permission. And I did NOT post a link to your site in a "harassing, libelous, defamatory" manner...I posted it because Bihai and I were discussing the nursery law, and she was unable to find your site. So I posted it for her to review for that reason. So you are quite wrong as to my reasoning for posting it. Why don't you "read" the previous posts and you will see that.

I did it again? Did WHAT again?

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MADE ME AWARE ABOUT THIS FORUM POSTING IN A EMAIL.

YOU DID IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did nothing defamatory or harassing...not in the least. I am not afraid of your threats. I have been a member here for a short while and I posted this thread to warn my Gardenweb friends, since many buy from Ebay. I see nothing wrong with that, as I did not lie about anything. There are many posts on here where people ask if a seller is reputable or not, and members don't get kicked off for sharing their experience with that seller (whether it's an ebay seller or any online seller). We have every right to discuss our experiences with sellers, whether it's negative or positive.

THE DEFAMATORY, LIBELOUS PART IS THAT YOU POSTED MY EBAY ID IN A COMPLAINT THAT YOU HAVE WITH ME & THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GARDENWEB

When I first joined, I put a post on here listing some sellers on ebay that I liked, just to share with other members who use ebay. Well, on that post there were people talking about other sellers BY NAME and telling of their negative experiences. They are still here. Many people have also talked about their negative experiences with online sellers. They are still here. SO SEND ME THAT POST, SINCE YOU ARN'T WORRIED?????

YES, THEY MAY STILL BE HERE, BUT LIKE I SAID THEY PROBABLY DIDN'T READ THE RULES EITHER, JUST CLICKED THE LINK SAYING THEY DID. AND THEN AGAIN THEY DIDN'T TELL BY PERSONAL EMAIL, THOSE PEOPLE THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT TO LOOK WHAT THEY HAD SAID ABOUT THEM, BY POSTING IT ON THE GARDENWEB FORUMS. BUT YOU DID, YOU WANTED ME HERE DIDN'T YOU.

So I'm not worried in the least.

Obviously someone made you aware of this post. YOU DID IN A PRIVATE EMAIL TO ME. You signed up to this forum to make yourself look "better". i, HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SIGN UP AND MAKE MYSELF HEARD, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT...Well, you made yourself look worse. You're doing the same thing that you did in your emails...if you look at my FIRST reply, you can see that I tried to end the conversation. But you wouldn't let up. THE REASON THERE IS THAT YOU WANTED ME TO JUST SEND YOUR MONEY BACK, BUT YOU WOULD KEEP THE PLANT. SO IS THE SELLER RESPONDSIBLE FOR YOUR OTHER PLANTS BEING INFECTED WITH APHIDS THAT YOU FIND ANYTIME YOU DEEM FIT.

I really don't think you're wanted here, because it's just to start trouble. You said your piece, now leave it be.

OH BUT I DID GIVE UP ON THE LAST EMAIL THAT YOU SAID TO "LEAVE ME ALONE" DATED 13 MAR.
BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT WANTED TO PURSUE IT FURTHER IN THE EMAIL YOU SENT ME ON 22 MAR. WITH THE SUBJECT
LINE " Ebay item under inspection " AND TELLING ME TO LOOK AT THE POST YOU MADE ON THE GARDENWEB FORUMS.

NOW I, HAVE SAID MY PIECE, AND WILL ONLY LEAVE IT ALONE ONCE YOU HAVE. i'VE ALREADY HAVE SENT A COMPLAINT TO
GARDENWEB ABOUT THIS MATTER,

AS GARDENWEB STATES IN THIER GUIDELINES...

'YOU ALONE ARE RESPONDSIBLE FOR WHAT YOU POST TO THE GARDENWEB FORUMS AND ANY CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE MESSAGES.

ANY PUBIC ACCUSATIONS IN THE FORUMS OR ELSEWERE ON GARDENWEB, WILL RESULT IN THE ACCUSER BEING BANNED.

OK...now you are just lying. I made you aware of the Gardenweb post that I posted on aphids, when I asked members what to do about them. I made you aware of that because you accused me of scamming you....so I tried to prove I wasn't by telling you to look on Gardenweb at my post...not THIS post. Are you illiterate? Look at the date of the email when I told you to look at Gardenweb...it was way before this ebay thread even started! And look at the recent Email I sent you, and you'll see NO mention of Gardenweb. Please stop lying...I haven't lied about anything.

No, I will not send you to that post I mentioned. Find it yourself.

By the way, I see you are still withholding ALL the emails you accused me of scamming you in. Where are they? You are making yourself look guilty by not putting them on here. Believe me, the damage is done...you did yourself in from you're first post. You just SOUND like someone nobody would want to deal with.

About getting me off Gardenweb, come back and see if I'm still here in a week. You really are making yourself sound so stupid.

Go away. Are there any members that are getting sick of his harassing posts?

What harressing? I'm just trying to see some truth in what you are raving about.

Green971 made a statement, you didn't like what she said so you shot her down.

TheHoyaGuy made a statement, you didn't like his response either so you shot him down.

So, you don't like it when others have an opinion that goes against your way of grain of thinking.

You said you wouldn't send the plant back with the soil, Actually it isn't soil, its a Soil-Less Mix. So what you can do instead is take a picture of the whole plant, cut all the vines off at just below the soil-less line, wash any media from the vines, stuff the vines in a box, and send them back to me. Also include all the pictures of the Destruction of the Hoya, including the empty basket after you cut the vines off.

Bet you dollars to Doughnuts that you will refuse this offer also.

Ebay says that 99 out of 100 sellers would rather refund with no return than to risk a negative rating, but since you've only given me positive ratings even for this Hoya, you've met the 1 seller that doesn't agree with ebays thinking.

Why do some buyers think that since they paid for the plant that its also the sellers respondsibility that if something like this happens while its in the buyer possession, that automatically the seller is at fault??

Try this with your butcher, buy a piece of meat and leave it in the frig for 12 days, then when its not been cooked for 12 days and spoiled, try to get your money back by blaming the butcher for your failure to cook it.

Either put up all the emails to show the whole story or give up on this matter. Either way, I'm done with this. Enough. Have a nice day.
Gabi

Folks, this is why this type of stuff is discouraged here.

Gabi, while you may have been trying to help us at at Hoya Forum, you have now invited in a hornet's nest of problems & bad juju, which is clearly not going away, nor are you dropping it.

If one's going to buy plants, there's almost ALWAYS a risk of bugs, on some level you need to accept this as a part of the hobby. Especially if you choose to buy thru EBay.

That said, could you both please STOP NOW!!