What's up with all this red clay stuff?

18 years ago

Hi.

I've just relocated from Oakland, California, USDA zone 10, to just west of Atlanta, Georgia. I traveled cross country in a two-seat sportscar with 32 (small) own-root roses and my cat. I hope to plant a new rose garden here. I brought single and semi-double antique roses with me.

Any advice?

Oh... I also want to plant things like oriental poppies, phlox, peaches...interesting things I couldn't grow well back in CA. Any advice on good perennials?

Jeff

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Comments (8)

girlgroupgirl
18 years ago
Jeff, several years ago I moved here from Canada, so I feel your garden shock!!

The clay needs to be ammended with copious amounts of good old organic materials to get some nice black dirt. It's very healthy, nutritious stuff but gets gucky in spring rain, then solid cement in August drought. Leaf mold, manures, composts are the best thing to incorporate.

As for roses, I would suggest asking on the rose forum for "Jean's No Spray List". Jean is a rosarian in Tennessee, and also grows roses in heat and humidity. She (usually annually) posts a list of the roses that have done best for her without too many fungal attacks and BS etc. Her suggestions have been very, very helpful.

Oriental Poppies do not love our climate. I plant them annually, and get few blooms. They do not perennialize for me right downtown in the city. Phlox do, however do very well and you'll find a host of them that you can grow in both sun or shade.

As for perennials to suggest, it depends if you have sun, shade, plan to ammend your soil (or not), and your gardening experience. There are many, many lovely plants that do well here.

GGG
sugarhill
18 years ago
Hey JeffreyD,
Welcome to Atlanta. I know nothing about roses, but the Atlanta Rose Society has a lot of good info on their web site, including how to prepare clay to grow a rose. I've included a link to their site.
I don't know where Oriental poppies grow well, but it's not here. However, if you have some dappled shade - especially some woodland shade - try the native poppy stylophorum diphylum. Nothing like the orientals, but so beautiful in spring.
When you're looking for phlox, look for the ones that are mildew resistant. It really does make a difference. And don't forget the old Southern favorites - camellias, gardenias, and jasmine. In my experience, they're all super easy to grow. Hope you have fun.

Here is a link that might be useful: Atlanta Rose Society
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we live in Alabama and have the same clay soil. Hate it!!! That's why Bermuda grass is so popular here. It's practically impossible to kill and it takes off in no time. I used to live a little north of Atlanta and the majority of yards (unless very shady) had Bermuda or some similar grass as well. It just does well on this type soil with the least amount of headache. I would love to have a fescue or blue grass yard, but have been told by multiple landscapers that it is constant maintenance to keep it looking good especially in our very hot summers.....takes a lot more water than Bermuda. So even though it's not in your budget, I think it would be best to bite the bullet and do sod....have your soil conditioned first, and go with a warm climate grass. Good luck!
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When did you plant the fescue seed? This should have been a good looking lawn by October if you planted the seed in September. Fall is always the best time of year to plant a cool season turf grass. Having said that, with the Earth warming, the Atlanta area is moving from the transition zone to the southern or warm zone. If you wanted to plan for the future, then going with a hybrid bermuda (not the weed-like common varieties), St Augustine, or some of the zoysias might be a better approach. Those go down as sod and can be applied any time of year. Before you spend a lot of money trying to fix the clay soil, I strongly suggest you get a really good soil test to verify the salt values and the total exchange capacity. It often happens that people believe they have clay soil because it cracks and holds moisture like you would expect modeling clay to do. But if your soil has a low TEC and high magnesium content, it will act very much like clay. 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wildflower
18 years ago
Welcome to GA Jeff. Amending the soil is the definately the key! Every time you dig a hole to plant something, mix in some "soil conditioner" (I think it's sold under this name at Lowe's and HD), compost, topsoil, or something organic... Rake all of your fallen leaves and pine straw into your flower beds and ignore anyone who tells you they don't like the way it looks. Check with the county you live in and see if they have a recycling center. I'm in Rockdale co. and can get all the free mulch I can shovel at our R.C. In full sun here the mulch seems to decompose quickly so I like to add more at least a couple of times a year.

I love daylilies, so as far as good perennials for full sun, they're always my first choice. Here you can grow them all; evergreens, semi's, or dormants.
eddie_ga_7a
18 years ago
Jeffry,
Go to the LINKS site below and scroll down to Georgia Perennial Plant Society which meets in Atlanta. Their site will have lists of perennials, articles, bloom time charts and lots of photos (some from my garden) for you to look at. I amend my soil with sphagnum peat and pine bark mini-nuggets plus, be advised that our red clay is primarily acid so you will probably need to add lime.
Just a few of my favorite perennials are: dwarf form of Joe Pye weed, various hosta, butterfly weed, phlox, purple coneflower, canna lilies, columbine, heleborus, lamium, homestead purple verbeana, bellflowers, tiarella, passiflora, crossvine, oxalis, and others.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Links
botanicat
18 years ago
Welcome to you and your cat and roses. As an old rose enthusiast myself, I can assure you that the climate here is great for roses, the main problem being blackspot due to the humidity. Although I don't actually have the red clay myself,(mostly powdered limestone I think) I know many people grow georgeous flowers in it. Just keep amending.
vroomp
18 years ago
Welcome to Georgia Jeff. Plants like Camelias, Crepe Myrtles, Boxwoods, Dogwoods, Hollies and Ornamental grasses require no soil conditioning here and I have never had to waste my time and effort ammending soils growing these. Most other nice perennials prefer a better grade of soil than usually found in most yards. Stick to developing small beds and limit your back breaking soil conditioning to small areas at a time and eventually you can have the right soil conditions everywhere. Or you can always try our most hardy of perrenials, Kudzu, which can grow in anything including gravel, concrete, or oil soaked clay.
jeffreyd
Original Author
18 years ago
I want to thank everyone for their responses. I'm feeling reassured. I've started planting the roses I brought from California. Big holes, lots of soil amendment. I'm sure they'll be fine. I also planted a couple O' Neal blueberries. What the heck! I need a hedge and the Southern Living book recommended this one. I'll see if I can find another variety for cross pollination.

Anyhow... Thanks again.
Jeff

Oh! I just found out about the Growers Outlet store in Loganville. Can't wait until they reopen in February.
J
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
18 years ago
Jeff, I just want to add a little something to everyone's good information. Yes, your plants will appreciate it if you amend the soil with plenty of organic matter sources, but not if you are planting hole by hole. Better to prepare small (or large) beds at a time, and amend the entire area before you plant.

By improving the environment in a planting hole, you discourage the root system from going anywhere else. Does that make sense? We have been telling everyone for years to NOT improve the planting hole or the backfill when planting hole by hole. Even in hard, red clay (which is some of the finest agricultural soil in the country, by the way).

My advice to you would be to find sources of compost, manure, composted bark fines, leaves, etc., to rototill into your planting beds prior to planting. Then keep the areas mulched with the organic matter of your choice.

As long as your site drains well (albeit slowly), I think you'll be very happy with this type of soil. I know I am.

What's up with all this red clay stuff?

Comments (8)

girlgroupgirl

sugarhill

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What's up with all this red clay stuff?

Comments (8)

girlgroupgirl

sugarhill

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wildflower

eddie_ga_7a

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jeffreyd
Original Author