Pictures always help. The adage of picture - 1000 words thingy.

I have had Karl do similar acts of weird and all that I did was split and replant. No reason why, in my experiences, that I can explain this phenomenon. After planting there was success of vertical and no weird arching or color deviations once the grasses settled in again.

I am sure there is some very educated, well trained, grass person out there that can give all of us a bit of education regarding such a character change in Karl.

If I can offer any thoughts or suggestion it would be the micro climate effect of plant location. Micro climate as we all know includes location of of the plant in your yard, the soil, the sun exposure, air or temperature(s), moisture (too much  too little), neighboring plants (some plants just donÂt like other plants) and even maintenance (your care) of the plant.

Possibly a critter has gotten into Karl at the roots and chewed on them causing this effect. I had ground squirrels nest under my M.s. Bitsy Ben and they look terrible this year.

Any or all of these elements may or may not be the reason for your grass mutation but it is a place to start your search.

Not much help but conversation to say the least.

Jake

Hi gang,
I appreciate the info greatly. I'm hoping some pics will help to describe what I have here. Are these typical Karls?

http://home.comcast.net/~budda_bing/greenKarl.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~budda_bing/Karltops.JPG

Here is a link that might be useful:

Any change in your irrigation/fertilization regimes? Excessive watering and too much nitrogen are the most common causes of otherwise upright grasses becoming floppy.

I've noticed that the panicle of Karl Forester changes a few times within the season. It emerges closed and tinged purple, then opens up like the pic you posted, then closes somewhat and takes on a pinkish tinge, then closes tight again when colouring to tan/brown. My KF have a few arching leaves as your plant does as well.

Here are three pics of the same 3 year old plant taken at differnet times last year (and different angles), the first was taken in July, the next in early August and the last one about 3 weeks into August.

Pudge - Great job with the photos and the time lapse thing.
I'm certain this will ally dannyb and others' fears that their KF's are O.K.
And I live in MA, have a KF and it's just coming into bloom now in a western exposure. Go figure.
Best,
PP

Pudge, I have to agree with PP. Great pictures, and a great way to show me just how much these grasses will change appearance over the summmer/fall months.
It looks to me like mine is right on track. I'm starting to notice that my seed heads are turning purple now. This never happened the first two years. I suppose it's a maturity thing.

Thanks again,

Dan

I planted my first three Karl's this spring and thus far they are performing exactly the way the photos show. Love the dusky mauve seedheads which is being displayed right now. (as shown in photo number two). I do notice that the seedheads do spread apart some when they are hit by rain, or when I water, but by the next morning they are right back where they were when they started. A real keeper in my garden and I'm sorry it took me so long to plant this one.

Blackie

Glad that helped you out, Dan. This is a great grass, even more so for cold zone gardeners who don't have the luxury of all those beautiful Miscanthus and Pennisetums that warmer zones have (but I am having some success with both). My zone is 2b and KF has wintered with no trouble for 4 years. KF's variegated relative, Overdam, is equally as hardy although IMO not near as lovely. Another new relative, a yellow variegated variety called Eldorado, is new to my yard this year and hopefully will winter equally as well.

Pudge -

Being that I am relatively new to the ornamental grass growing society I have to ask where you got the note that Overdam is a varigieted relative of Karl Foerster?

We have had Overdam in our first bed for about 7+ years and have never heard of Overdam being variegated. Overdam is more open and airy in the inflorescence than Karl and the color of Overdam appears to be more towards green blue than green.

This summer we picked up a Karl Foerster grass that is supposed to be Variegated and at at the time was not readily available to the consumer market. We just planted it so we have no real idea what it is supposed to look like.

The nursery where we got the grass did not even have information other than it is Karl Foerster and it is variegated. We'll see more next year.

Now if I could only get hold of Molinia caerulea subsp. arundinacea "Karl Foerster" then I could have a Karl Garden.

Jake

Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Overdam' is the grass I'm speaking of - perhaps there is another grass out there called Overdam as well that is not a Calamagrostis and not variegated. I'm attaching a link to one of many google hits for Overdam.

Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Karl Foerster' is, of course, the green variety. A variegated Karl Foerster would probably be Overdam, or Avalanche.

Overdam has a thin white stripe down the center of each green blade. It is actually not very noticeable from a distance and the plant (in my garden, at least) is less robust and shorter than KF. In the third photo I posted above, the plant to the right of KF is Overdam - variegation, although there, is not very pronounced.

Another variegated variety that I have only read about and have not yet purchased (haven't found it) is Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Avalanche' (I've also seen it listed as C. x acuminata). I've read that Avalanche has a thin green stripe down the center of a white blade, apparently making it look more variegated. A poster on another forum has remarked that the variegation is, again, not so noticeable and perhaps the leaf blade is just too thin to show off variegation.

I mentioned above that I also have Calamagrostis acutiflora 'Eldorado' which is another variety, with a green and yellow variegation. From what I've noticed so far, the yellow seems quite pronounced on new growth. It's still too small a specimen to really say what it will look like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Overdam

Thanks Pudge for the information. I most certainly will do more reading, searching and gathering of data of what we have growing in the yard before I write about it.

We do have Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Overdam' but the tag that was on the plant does not mention anything about it being variegated. I have no idea why I happened to save or was able to find a tag from the original grass bed we planted several years back.

Does any stripe that can be noticed running vertical or horizontal along or across the frond or blade of the grass make that grass a variegated grass? Even if the stripe is not readily seen until closer examination?

What if the stripe is "green" like the blade but slightly a different shade or hue from the green color of the blade itself?

If in fact the above statements are true then there would be many more grasses that should be called variegated that are not.

Jake

Jake,

I have 4 Calamagrostis "Overdam"'s and I would refer to them as varagated as well. The foliage has repeating stripes of green and cream, i guess vertically or the length of the frond. C. Avalanche's striping is the exact opposite of Overdam. I will take a photo tonight and post it. The banding on my Overdam is not a pronounced as, lets say Miscanthus "Cosmopolitan", but there is definately a varigation to the foliage.. Will post a photo again later...but mine are definately way different than Karl.

Blackie

Cool !!

Now I am definitely going to investigate that OverDAM grass in my bed. I get so use to just talking about what is and as many do I forget just what it is that is. Gotta keep looking in the nooks and crannies as thatÂs where the real deal hides.

Great world to be in - thinking about grasses and retirement in a couple of months. Not sure which is more important.

OOPS!! Time for lunch. Back at everyone later.

Jake

Jake - Don't overlook Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Avalanche'. You'll get the opposite "variegation" green white green VS white green white.

Both tend to be about 6-8" shorter then Karl but well worth the effort and time to plant.

George

As I sit here working on a sewer project I got to thinking about the lack of definition of the variegation in our Overdam and I remember that climate conditions can have a major effect on plants.

We have high humidity and warm nights which in fact are detrimental to some grasses and I do believe that Calamagrostis is one grass that is in fact affected.

We are having 90% and higher in humidity and over night temps no lower than mid seventies. These are bad conditions for many plants that we grow or try to grow in the Great Plains States. Oh Well !!

I would like to grow some of the above mentioned grasses but planting space is becoming somewhat of an issue. We just planted about 20 different shrubs and trees this year.

When these new plantings start taking over the space around them in terms of creating shade we will need to revamp out plant selections and redesign the gardens now in progress. And find some nifty shade grasses.

We know what we are doing but it sure seems like we are out of control when I talk about it.

Gardening - a never finished painting.

Jake

Jake,

Here a photo of my Calimagrostis "Overdam" which is planted next to my shed...

Followed by it's foliage:

{{gwi:864694}}

and a photo of my Calimagrostis "Avalanche" which is supposed to be the exact opposite varigation:

Varigated or not ?

Blackie

B57 -

You got the touch!! Keep up the good work growing ornamental grasses. It is easy and fun.

Ornamental grasses - a mans perennial.

We finally got a break in the weather, the temp dropped 30 degrees in an hour then we got rain by truck loads.

Now if it stops raining I will venture out to the beds and take a closer look at everything that is still green.

It has been great reading about other grasses besides Miscanthus. Miscanthus is a wonderful grass group but we need to be aware of all the other grasses as well.

Later.

Jake

Thanks for the kind words, Jake... I agree we need to add more to the landscape than miscanthus... Check out my photobook..I took some new photo's last evening... things are really taking off !!

Although I DO love my Morning Light... ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: My photo's

Your Morning Light is beautiful - I am so envious, I would kill to be able to grow those grasses. I couldn't get to your link - it's asking for a password. I think in your photobucket account options you have to make your site public.

It looks like the variegation is not evident on Avalanche from a distance, like Overdam. Here's a pic of my very young C. x acutiflora Eldorado, taken this spring soon after planting out.

(A man's perennial, huh? I'll have to tell my husband he must take over care of the OG's)

A man's perennial. Plant it, water it, grab a chair and watch it grow. Spring, cut it back grab a chair, a refreshment, watch it grow. Spring, cut it back, grab a beer, watch it grow.

My kinda flower.

This is my first post, but I've been reading these forums for some time now. dannyb's post about Karl Foerster caught my eye because I, too, have some plants that seem way larger than anything I'm used to seeing. I don't know how old the plants are but we bought them last fall and they started growing like crazy in spring. Also, notice the waterfall effect they took on when we had a light rain last month. Any idea if this is normal? My husband fixed the problem by thinning the plants out but it still doesn't seem normal to me. Thanks!

Pudge, Thanks for the heads up... I've made the account publid now so go ahead and give it a try !!

Blackie

OK, second attempt. Here's a picture of my Karl Foerster. Has anybody else had theirs flop like this?

{{gwi:864690}}

I hope it's OK that I posted this here in an existing Karl thread. If I should've started a new one, let me know. Please bear with me. I'm new here and still trying to figure some things out. Thanks!

Lisa,

Nope, that's not normal for Karl. They are usually upright, the sentinals of the garden, and my buddy Jake calls them. Are you fertilizing them ? That would cause them to flop. Also too much water might do it as well. From the photo it looks like they are getting enough sun. Heres a photo of my Karl's (in the left corner of the photo.) These were planted in the spring and will get larger next season. I have three planted in a row.

Blackie

Cool! What else are we looking at?

In the photo ? Let's see from left to right...

two mounds of Dianthus "Bath's Pink" which started out 5 years ago as two 4 in blobs... between them is a Nepeta "walkers Low"
Then some Moonbeam" Coreposis in front of Monarda "Jacob Cline"

A little "elijah blue" fescue sits in front of the coreopsis, and to the right of that are two Salvia "May night" which are on their last bit of bloom. they were spectacular in May. Finally at the back is a Miscanthus "Morning Light" ...oh another Walkers low is behind the May Nights to the right of the Monarda..

Thanks for asking Donn... :-)

Blackie

Salvia sylvestris "Mainacht" or as the slang version states "May Night".

If you want a neat looking garden put Salvia in front of a good stand of Panicum virgatum "Heavy Metal" as the blue green of "Heavy Metal" really makes the Salvia flowers so much stronger in their appearance.

Almost over bearing. Just a "Heavy Metal" fan trying to get more music or rhythm in the garden. P.v. "Heavy Metal" the other Sentinal.

Cool scene there B57. Almost too pretty for this garden fantasizer. (Is that a word .. fantisizer?)

Jake

Nicely done, Blackie. When can you come down and prune my Dianthus 'Arctic Fire?' It's running amok, and only in it's second year.

Thanks, Blackie. My husband admitted to me he was fertilizing all of our grasses, so I guess that's the problem. I will tell him to stop, though with the drought we've had this summer, he has laid off on that. On the other hand, he probably now over waters. I keep telling him everything I've read says most grasses like to be ignored, but he just won't listen.

By the way, I love the way your yard looks. Thanks for posting all those pictures & the link! Very inspiring!

Just an addition to this thread. I live very near an incredible nursery in Oregon callled Joy Creek. From them I learned to use very fine gravel as a mulch for many of my gardens and virtually all my grasses. I also plant the grasses with some fine gravel mixed in. It allows the roots to penetrate, provides great drainage. No fertilizer other than a sprinkle of pure nitrogen (blue chip -- urea) in the early spring to help with lush leaf growth throughout the whole season. Most grasses need little water beyond getting started and in the hottest stretches of weather (days of 90 plus with no break). 3 cheers for Morning light miscanthus!! One of the very finest grasses ever to grace the earth.

pezhead, this is the second time I've read about your admiration of Morning Light. You've got me curious! What's the difference between Morning Light and Gracimillus? I have Gracimillus.

I think we're going to move that Karl (in my photo upthread) next spring and replace it with something a bit shorter. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

Hi all,
I posted the original question here a while ago and I've learned a few things since. My original question concerned why my Karl looked differently this year than in the past.
It's 'panicles'(a word I learned here) looked like they had a major case of the frizzies, as you can see in the picture below (thank you Sharon for explaining how to post a picture here).

However, my Karls don't look anything like this, just a few weeks later. Now they're back to normal. Nice and tall and streamlined.
After reading all the posts here, my last question is whether I have Overdam or not? Can you tell from the picture above?

Thanks all!

Dan