I've been trying to get pregnant for 2 years, and have taken many ovulation and pregnancy tests. I got tired of trying to pee on the stick, so I've been collecting it and dipping the sticks in for some time. I keep a tupperware bowl behind the toilet - a wide bowl making aim a no-brainer. Make sure it is deeper if you're collecting all of it. There's another thing I'm thinking about. After my mother had surgery, they wanted to collect her first urine sample. They had some sort of bowl that fit just inside the toilet. So, she just had to go, and they later collected the sample. Good luck :) Christy

witeowl, I haven't gotten to the compost forum yet this evening, so I don't know what answers you got there, but I know there are many people, male and female, who collect their urine for their compost pile, so I hope you get some good ideas.

Christy hit upon something there - perhaps a call to a medical supply store can lead you in the right direction.

I don't do this because I don't go out to my pile every day, but considering the benefits - conservation of water and good stuff for the pile - I should stop being so lazy and consider it. Good luck!

:)
Dee

At the hospital we collect urine in what we call a hat, a plastic hat shaped container that, when inverted, sits over the toilet bowl and catches the urine.

I think I will leave the urine collecting to others even if it is beneficial to the compost pile.

No, I'm all about conservation, but collecting my urine is where I draw the line. Plus, my compost bin is near my tomato plants, and if I thought my urine got in the soil I wouldn't be able to eat the tomatoes. Of course, I know there could be animal urine there, but I choose not to think about that.

Sarah

Thanks for all the ideas. Many are spot on.

I'll admit that I had a hope that someone would tell me about some brilliant adapter (diverter) they had for their regular toilet, but I've gotten over it. ;-)

Witeowl, here is perhaps what you are looking for. The video explains it all.

Sarah

Here is a link that might be useful: Urine for Fertilizer

I couldn't resist :) Christy

{{gwi:847001}}

ROFLMAO!!!

You don't think my neighbors would complain about that one? :-D

Seems like you are getting support for this zany idea, but I don't go along with it. Some folks on the compost and mulch forum do advocate urine for the compost pile. Urine has been used for many purposes throughout the ages, such as tanning deer hides so that they will become white. In days of old some women washed their faces in urine, thinking it does good things for the complexion. My reaction is eeewwwwwwww, yuck.

Probably you aren't old enough to remember the scent of a diaper pail from the days before paper diapers. People kept urine saturated cloth diapers in a covered pail. Diapers were washed as a full load, one didn't mix other laundry in with a load of diapers. Urine stinks. I detest the smell of urine.

We have laws about human waste/sanitation for good reason. Handling urine is not sanitary. Diseases can be passed through contact with urine, such as Hepatitis. Some infected person fails to wash their hands after using the toilet, then two minutes later shakes your hand, you suddenly need to sneeze so you cover your mouth and nose with your hand, inhaling as you do--disease bacteria has been transmitted to you. By the way, new fangled thinking is that people should sneeze into the crook of their elbows to cut down on the amount of germs spread by hands.
Being green doesn't mean giving up safe sanitary practices.

Lorna

Lorna, I agree with you. Besides, the idea of urine being outside on a hot summer day...eww, the smell. I prefer my yard to not smell like a subway station.

Sarah

Well, it's not like witeowl is passing around her urine for all to handle, lol! I'm sure she will wash her hands after she puts it in the compost, just as she would wash her hands after using the bathroom.

I don't consider putting urine in the compost pile as an usafe sanitary practice. As long as you've got a hot enough pile, I don't see the problem with it. And if that pile is indeed hot enough, there would be no smell.

Even if you don't put your urine in the compost pile, you could still shake hands with an infected person who does not wash their hands. It has really nothing to do with one person putting her own urine in her own pile.

Witeowl, you got some good answers on the compost forum (and one not-so-helpful answer, lol - not sure what that was supposed to mean?!). Good luck with your compost.

:)
Dee

@diggerdee: I did get some good answers. I'm still working on the best and easiest system. (Although now I wonder what people will think if I were to suddenly pass away... "Why did this woman have a container of her own urine in her bathroom?") (And the one comment is still a bit of a puzzle, I'll admit.) :-D

@Lorna: You're free to your own opinion, but do you find your comment about the legal handling of human waste/sanitation at all incongruous with your recommendation in the other thread to use gray water in the garden (which is bizarrely illegal in most areas)? I wash my hands; I make sure there's no excess runoff from the compost pile. I believe that dog poo in the park has a greater risk of spreading pathogens and disease than a little (typically sterile) urine in my compost pile. Also, many of our modern "sanitary" practices are simply overkill. (The elimination of cloth handkerchiefs would be a good example.) Oh, and it's not *my* "zany" idea... people far smarter than I began the practice; I simply seek to modernize it and make it most convenient. ;-)

@theanalyst: I suppose that, if I did not know better, I would worry that keeping a pile of rotting fruits and vegetables in my yard would create an odor and environment reminiscent of a dumpster. Instead, thanks to a little care and attention to detail and the art of composting, all I smell around my compost pile is a wonderful aroma reminiscent of a rich, woodland floor. It's just lovely. :-)

"Why did this woman have a container of her own urine in her bathroom?"
LOL!! I have a plastic container on the back of my toilet containing herbal nail fungus soak for DH's feet. It is mostly cider vinegar but it looks like urine! It's a conversation piece to say the least.

Witeowl, then question is if you add pee to compost, do you then add more brown or green? I know the trick to prevent smell is an equal blend of brown (leaves, sticks, etc.) and green (veg, fruit, etc.) matter. Now was is urine? Some might say it isn't brown matter. ;)

Sarah

Interesting that you find a need to lash out at those who do not support using urine in compost. You did ask if you were nuts to consider the idea of urine in compost! I don't think you are nuts, but as I said, I consider urine in compost as zany.

No, I don't find my comments about grey water incongruous. Note I specified using grey water for flower gardens, not produce gardens. You are correct, to each his own. I am familiar with the concept of using urine in compost, and do not agree with the practice. The urine advocate composters claim their urine is sterile. Really? Are they doing sterile catches in sterile containers? People make all sorts of claims.

You haven't met any of these people you say are smarter than you. You don't know that they are the perfect specimens of health. You don't know what their gardens look like, or how clean they are regarding their persons or their homes. If urine is sterile, why do babies get diaper rash?

My comments about people transmitting disease because they don't wash hands was to point out why urine is not sanitary. I'm sure you have had the thrill of filling and transporting a urine specimen cup down a corridor at a medical facility. If you were able to avoid peeing on the container or sloshing any of the urine before you got the cup capped, you are much more graceful than I. I have washed off the exterior of the container every time because somebody else was going to be putting their hands on that container.

When I was a kid, the woman who lived across the street kept a coffee can beneath her bed because she didn't want to leave her bed to use the bathroom during the night. The scent of urine was strong in her bedroom, wafted out to the hallway and a portion of her living room.

Years ago, during the Hippie Days, I worked at the Berkeley Free Clinic. Various groups of people came by teaching "new age" alternative health options. All were allowed to offer workshops. I attended a workshop on urine therapy, people advocating drinking one's own urine and washing oneself with urine. These folks were not the perfect specimens of health! The leader of the group was emmaciated, had a ghostly pallor to her complexion, lank lack-luster hair, a sour odor, and her clothing was in need of soap and water. She was also obviously suffering from depression. Yet she presented herself as an alternative health practitioner, and there were people who believed what she had to say.

I am not into germfree environments, except at medical facilities. I do not equate sanitary practices with being germfree. I believe in plain soap and water. I think antibacterial soap is bad for the environment. I would not compost if I was afraid of bacteria. I believe nature intended a balance of "good" and "bad" bacteria. Bacteria has its own ecosystem, Accumulated human waste skews a bacterial ecosystem out of balance. I add a bacterial product to my septic system to create a balanced ecosystem....

Lorna, I didn't lash out at you. I'm sorry that you felt that I did. I was just posting my point of view in what I thought was a mature exchange of ideas. I'd like to know exactly what I said that you read as "lashing out".

Nevertheless, I'll try to continue a reasonable discourse, at least for three points. Note that I am not emotional over this issue, so I hope you don't feel attacked again.

My "am I nuts" comment was for collecting urine as a female, not questioning urine in compost.

I suppose I can't say that my urine is guaranteed to be sterile, but doctors and scientists agree that urine, from healthy people, is sterile.

Babies get diaper rash from the moisture, not the urine.

Peace :)

theanalyst: No, no, you're right, urine isn't a "brown". As a nitrogen source, it's a "green". Well, in the compost sense, at least. If it's ever green in the literal sense, rest assured that I won't be composting it. :grin:

It's not true that hepatitis viruses can be transmitted through urine. Blood, yes. Fecal matter, yes. Urine, no.

(And if people keep "urine-saturated" diapers in the diaper pail, no wonder the baby gets a diaper rash! Change that baby's diaper BEFORE it's totally soaked!)

Pee, incidentally, is a very green green. (If you want it to be a literally green green, eat a mint-flavored sno cone -- or so my husband remembers from his childhood :-).)

I think this is something to consider. I read up on composting toilets this morning. One site said the compost collected from a toilet should not be used in a garden until it has composted for one year. The indication was any pathogens and parasites would have died off within that period of time. The toilets have to be emptied of their compost fairly frequently. The compost is removed to an intermediate outdoor location to further decompose.

This is some info I copied from a United Kingdom URL:
http://www.sustainablebuild.co.uk/CompostToilets.html

"All composting toilets decompose waste by creating the aerobic conditions for bacteria, fungi, worms and other macro and micro-organisms to thrive. The objective is to destroy harmful pathogens, reduce the risk to human health and environment, and transform the waste nutrients into fertile soil. They typically break down waste to 10% of the original volume. Most toilet composting systems are low-temperature, known as mouldering toilets, but others are hot (thermophiliac). The waste material must be heated high enough that pathogens are destroyed, or left for long enough that pathogens break down naturally.

Compost that is too wet becomes anaerobic and produces unpleasant odours. Because of this some composting toilets separate the urine from the faeces. The collected urine goes through a process of nitrification, resulting in an odourless, bacteria-free liquid that can be used as a fertiliser or leached safely into the ground. Other models collect urine and faeces together, and either evaporate the liquid off completely or require the addition of carbon material such as sawdust, leaf mould, straw or grass clippings to soak up the liquid... "

Something else to consider is why do plants, which my male dogs repeatedly lift their legs on, die? I don't know the answer, but my male dogs have killed a few of my flowering plants by peeing on them. People say female dog urine on a lawn causes dead spots, but they don't say the same thing about male dogs. I don't know why that is. I fenced in my produce garden to keep the dogs out.

Lorna

I stand corrected on Hepatitis transmission. The person correcting me was partially correct.

Hepatitis A is transmitted through fecal matter. Does that have anything to do with urine? Possibly, as people often urinate when they defecate, cross contamination.

Hepatitis B is transmitted through blood, as well as bodily fluids which have been contaminated by blood, notably semen and saliva. If a person urinating has a genital skin/membrane breakage, where blood has contaminated urine, it is possible to transmit through urine.

Hepatitis C is said to be transmitted solely through blood contact. However, if B can be transmitted through bodily fluids which have blood in them, why wouldn't the same be true of C?

Lorna

Lorna, as your own information makes clear, there is a difference between composting urine and composting faeces. I'm not going to compost faeces because I won't give it a year.

Grass burns where dogs urinate because there's too much nitrogen. (It also may be relevant that it's being "applied" directly to the plant, rather than to the soil.) Nitrogen is beneficial in gardens in the proper amount but, like anything, too much is too much. That's why most people dilute urine if they want to use it as fertilizer directly around plants, and that's why I'm using it in my compost pile where it'll be used as food for the microherd.

Urine is a welcome addition to my compost piles .
Ammonia causes diaper rashes as well as burning the lawn .
Ammonia can cause die back on plants as well .
Excess Nitrogen can cause the green " bloom " around the spots .
In my cattle pastures , it is quite obvious where the manure piles land.
Just look for the dark green ring of vigorously growing grass .
Add it all to your compost pile . No smell , no waste and earth friendly .

While it could be true, although I'm sure not 100% across the board, that after time and breakdown that most pathogens that might be present in human urine are no longer active, it doesn't mean they all are. I also want to point out, especially when dealing with viruses, that pathogens mutate, sometimes at alarming rates, which is why we don't have many defenses against some viruses like HIV or the common cold for that matter. E. coli is commonly found in human urine, the biggest offender in UTIs. Another is west nile. The way I see it is that what the scientific community thinks they know about something is a matter of the research they have on hand. And with their ability to detect things. Case in point, they thought they were screening blood from donors for hepatitis, et c, but they didn't quite get the job done and it and other things were passed on to recepients. I would guess it could be the same for urine. How many times have they come back to say, oops we were wrong about that? I guess I am ignorant of the benefits of using human urine in the compost pile because I am asking myself why would you, with the potential risks. To me it is not worth it, I will find another source.

Some people would have you believe that our hyper-sterile lives encourage pathogens to mutate more rapidly. With only a layman's understanding, I suspect the reality is that virii and bacteria will mutate no matter the situation (and evolution will weed out ineffective mutations), and anything we do or do not do will neither hasten nor slow the unavoidable mutations.

Regarding E. Coli. It's also found in spinach. Should I no longer put spinach in my compost pile? And what about salmonella from tomatoes and peppers? Perhaps I should stay away from adding fruits and vegetables to my compost pile. Egads, what is left? Animal faeces it is! :smile:

My point: everyone has a different comfort level. Some are not comfortable with compost at all. Some are comfortable with composting, but only in an enclosed bin; in an open pile but without meat and dairy; or without weeds; or without any animal waste; or without any meat-eating animal waste; and you see how the spectrum continues...

I never suggested that others should add urine to their compost piles or bins because you're right, flutterby, it's not worth it to many people, whether it be because of health concerns or simply "ew" factors. I hear tell of one infamous gardenweb user who has a particular repulsion to bread being added to compost. Her decision. Personally, what grosses me out more than urine is the idea of adding hair. Why? I have absolutely no idea. But I'll tell you what: I won't try to dissuade someone else from adding hair to his or her pile. (yech!)

Yes, you are right, witeowl. E. coli, salmonella, listeria and other things have tainted our produce and us. So no I wouldn't knowingly put anything tainted in the compost pile. I'm sure no one else would either, I hope. The point I was trying to make is that we depend on some government or corporation scientist who tell us this or that is "safe" because of their "studies" and I have a problem with that. I'll concede that using your own urine in your own compost pile probably poses very little threat. I would not be too comfortable buying anything from anywhere that uses it (ie, from sewage treatment plants, that might be in practice somewhere, I don't know, maybe Mexico where we get some of our tainted stuff). To each his own, though.

This is probably off topic but I just want to say that actually using broad spectrum antibiotics has contributed greatly to the "superbugs" that attack us. There are many resistant strains of pathogens, like mrsa and vre. Diseases that were once very rare outside of the hospital setting (like certain pneumonias) are now being seen in the community, due in part from using these broad spectrum antibiotics. So what we do does make a difference.

I meant to add this to my previous post about urine being sterile. What I understand is that, from a normally healthy person, it is sterile until it exits the bladder. And parts of the urinary tract that were once thought to be sterile are now questionable. Go figure.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone does anything in particular except be informed and be aware. Hope I have not offended anyone.

And yes, we have lost sight of the fact that your original post was about collecting urine as a female, not about the pros and cons of using urine in the compost pile, sorry.

Witeowl, I thought you may find this link funny. Now you can easily just pee right into your compost bin. ;)

Sarah

Here is a link that might be useful: P-Mate

flutterby: Nope, no offense and no reason to apologize. Like I said before, I'm not getting emotional over any of this, and I hope no one else is either. I actually greatly enjoy discussions with people with opposing points of view, as it helps me question and solidify my own beliefs. And, I guess, I like to argue... Or so I've been told.

Sarah: Cute! But, um... no. Won't be used in my back yard. I think that would be an "emergencies only" product. :o)

LOL, Sarah! Come on, witeowl! Give it a try. It's even made of cardboard so you can just drop it in the compost pile when you're done, lol!

I too have enjoyed the give and take of information in this thread. Thank you everyone!

:)
Dee

mason jar

Collection device: I use a quart yogurt container. I squat slightly and squeeze the container between my legs, pee (less than 2 cups typically), use the rim to scrape drips, top the container off with water and apply the mixture to the soil between nitrogen loving plants. It's easy.

From everything I've read, urine is a great addition to the compost pile. And the water savings from your toilet should be helpful too.

I've been pondering starting this practice around my house, but I've really wanted to find some more elegant, chamber-pot type solution to the temporary storage issue. Preferably with a handle for easy carrying. Has anyone seen something like this?

cheers,
Kim

Hope I'm not too late to add my 2 cents! :-)
Here's a little humor for the day . . .

An internet search turns up many devices that help women attain urinary freedom, and some that promote the more natural approach. See the following articles written by a registered nurse.

http://otoh.org/mirror/restrooms.org/standing.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20021201123416/www.restrooms.org/problems.html

A serious internet search will demonstrate ZERO danger to using urine, whether to activate the compost pile or to dilute as directly applied fertilizer. I can't find any documented information that germs and pathogens will be spread, only opinions and fears. Even caution about withholding urine fertilization for a certain number of days before harvest seems to be only opinion.

I'm an engineering tech, so I might be approaching this situation a little differently than others:

1. It requires gallons of drinking water to flush--water I pay for on my water bill and collected from somewhere for drinking use. And don't talk to me about low-flow toilets. The joke is that there's a sign posted in the restroom stating "Low-flow toilet. Please keep flushing until the paper goes down."
2. Gallons of water flushed add to the burden of treatable waste at the sewage facility
3. Excess algae grows in our waterways from nitrogen NOT removed in the treatment process before discharge
4. Why pay for limited nutrient, refined fertilizer when I make my own?
5. Making my own garden soil is a step toward self-sufficiency

Personal compost activator. I like the sound of that.

BTW, I'm doing an experiment. I have a compost pile that is about 5' in diameter, about 3' high. For the past week I've been adding ALL of my daily urine output to the pile. I add it at least twice a day, so it is always relatively fresh. There is no olfactory evidence whatsoever. :-)

One more comment: I image that those who master the technique in the link above with proficiency to write their name in the snow in BLOCK letters will have tremendously strong "kegels."

Skirt

Sorry, urine is a body fluid and as such should carry as much risk for pathogens as any other bodly fluid. It is cleaner than most fluids. But if it was really as sterile as some believe no one would get urinary infections.

I have linked to the FDA website so that you can see the precautions that they are planning to impliment to prevent any mammal from putting body fluids in the food chain.

Here is a link that might be useful: FDA

Witeowl isn't asking for an opinion about whether or not to use liquid gold. She's already done her research and decided that she wants to utilize a free source of nitrogen. The question is, Since it's a little inconvenient for us girls, how do you get it in the pile?

Regarding the FDA link, This wouldn't be the first time the government has hoped to implement policies that waste resources and end up costing us more. There's probably a forum somewhere else to discuss politics . . . but not here :-)

The Washington Post article discusses human urine as a safe fertilizer. See link below.

Our "hygenic" society usually rejects this method, with more acceptance in third-world countries. . . but obviously there are some home gardeners that are willing to take advantage of this resource.

:-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Human Urine Safe, Productive Fertilizer

Having had in my younger days large amounts of bacteria and gardia cells in my urine I know that not all urine is safe. Based on my personal experiences I would still caution anyone that has urinary infects to be careful.

Each person must make up their own mind what they wish to do. Since the first post was in August 2008 that poster has probably already figured out their best way.

As far as the link, if you had bothered to read, there is a section if implimented that people not using their recommendations would be subject to penalties. Part of the recommendations are not to allow any natural urine or waste in the area of garden produce. Since human urine is still, the last time I checked, natural people using urine could if the changes are implimented not be able to use their produce except for the growers own use. No passing to family members etc. Since this goes directly to using your urine in the garden and has nothing to do with it being safe or not I posted.

For those that want something more than holding a can under them a folding stool can be purchased where you find medical supplies. Some have an airtight lid that will allow for several deposits, which is the one I would recommend but some do not.

Sometimes on trash day you can find these on the curb where the family has thown out, Thrift shop also.

Thanks for letting us know that the Obama administration is attempting to make it illegal or impossibly difficult to efficiently use available resources. So much for big government for the little guy. I feel safer already.

With these rules, Mr. Smith is going to have to activate the compost for only Mr. Smith's garden, Mrs. Smith, for Mrs. Smith's garden, etc., or risk government penalties.

BTW, I checked my compost pile yesterday. It is hot, and has the delightful aroma of perfectly composting materials. I can't wait to use it to grow my next crop of fresh vegetables.

Good for you. Are you going to do a fall garden.

Although the new rules are coming from the current admistration they are fueled by the general publics fear of germs. In order to keep every thing germ free some really wacky, to my mind, things as listed in the pieces would have to happen.

Being older I was exposed to all kinds of germs growing up todays population grew up while everything was to be kept spotless. They want their food to be spotless also. Although you want to protect your children from everything some times a little real dirt will protect them for years in the future. When people ask for spotless food the government will try to provide it even at the expense of what I call common sense. I am well aware that there are some germs like the ecoli's that can kill which means no animal should come close to the food supply. I fell bad for the families but growing all food in what to me is a sterile greenhouse environment could reduce some of the health benefits that we currently receive from our foods being grown with the benefits of growing in a non-sterile environment. I have posted the FDA link in the Hot Topics a couple of days ago so this will be my last comment on here as it is really off topic. It does effect becoming green using what we do have available.