Chuck Hayes or Kleim's hardy

16 years ago

I am trying to decide between Chuck Hayes and Kleim's hardy gardenias for a foundation garden. Is one more fragrant than the other? I like the CH's more traditional double blossom and foliage.

After I got your unbiased opinion, here is the problem. I asked for CH when they did my landscaping. They put in KH instead. The KH are growing and flowering, the scent is awesome, and the bushes are thriving (they were planted last fall, so they are just getting settled.) I really do like the CH much better, and the landscaper will replace them with the CH, no problem. So, I just need to have them replaced, but I'm enjoying the scent of the KH, minus the less attractive blooms and foliage. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

TBT

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Comments (5)

ankraras
16 years ago
I think in a situation like this is when garden design come into play. Did you plant other shrubs near by that are possibly flowering in the same time fame? Do they have single or double flowers? Really, our gardens reflect the people who owns them and how the garden is maintained delivers a certain message to passers by.

I believe that balancing the natural beauty should be the key. If you have other flowering shrubs with double flowers then plant single flower Gardenia so each individual plant can display their maximum beauty. You are in luck that the landscaper will plant what you have specified if they don't contradict with each other.
kaihui
16 years ago
I have both Chuck Hayes and Kleim Hardy. You probably know one is double and another one is double. That's the main reason that I would pick Chick Hayes over Kleim Hardy if I had to choose. I think Chuck Hayes is slightly more fragrant than Kelim Hardy, but that difference is very very small.

Where are you located in VA? I am in Charlottesville. Kleim Hardy is a little more cold hardy than Chuck Hayes. We are right on the edge of their cold zone. If a bad winter comes, Chuck Hayes may not make it here. That's the only reason I have Kleim Hardy.

Kai
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Hhhmmmm...well I don't think anywhere that close to DC actually got below 0F. "Rock Creek Park" officially stops inside the city. At any rate no gardenia is going to truly be zn 6 hardy and obviously the existing so-called hardy ones are only hardy for mild-to-moderate zn 7a conditions. I had both 'Kleim's Hardy' and a smaller 'Chuck Hayes'; considering the CH was much younger it died no more quickly, maybe even a bit less quickly. But by the, what was it, 5 or 6th round of record low temps in early March, they were both dead. Both would have been fine with the first drop to 3F if it had been the only one, and the KH had almost never been injured before. I'll probably just replace at some point w/CH, since the flowers are a little showier and no less fragrant. But they are both still deserving shrubs in the DC area IMHO, dying once every 20 years is manageable for a shrub if you don't mind the replacement cost and aren't using it as a "foundation" shrub. (OMG honey, our house lost its foundations! We'll have to move!) This post was edited by davidrt28 on Tue, May 20, 14 at 5:28
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Hi - I have both Kleim's and Chuck. They were planted just last summer, and so far. so good. Chuck didn't bloom but it grew some. The Kleim's bloomed most of the summer from buds formed after planting. They are together in a west exposure that gets hot afternoon sun in the summer. The Fremont Street Michelia plantings (put in by Cistus) have some gardenias under them that are vigorous and healthy - not sure what variety, probably one of the two. - they are almost 3 feet high.
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I finally found some Chuck Hayes Gardenias about 6 weeks ago or so at the Al's Nursery new store grand opening day (a retail nursery with about 10.5 acres, including several acres that are covered with auto-retractable roofs). It's about a ten minute drive from me here in Beaverton, Oregon. Anyway, so they've been in the ground for 4 or 5 weeks and are about two feet above the ground in height (bought three of them). They're planted in the same spots as my previous "regular" non-hardy varieties where the longest one lasted 3 years (we had a really cold winter with a long cold spell of about 20 degrees a couple years ago that took out the remainders). Nursery I had bought previous ones "joked" about how I was buying the Gardenias as annuals. :-( pH measures a bit marginal (6) using the colored water vial sort of hand-wavy measurement. I think 5.5 is supposed to be the nominal, but I think 6 is close enough (is it?). I had acidified it quite a bit several years ago, but it's next to the house's concrete foundation that's rumored to make things go in an alkaline direction over time. I put a tiny bit of sulphur into it for long term acidification when I re-rototilled it up for these three (using a Mantis tiller). Got my fingers crossed both for the health of the plants as well as hoping for mild winters (typically a high of 50 and permanent drizzling). In the month or so they've been in the ground, they've not minded too much. They've all started to generate quite a lot of buds, of which they had none when purchased. I attached a link to a photo of them about a week or two ago. Still need to put down some stuff on the surface, but was waiting for the first generation of weeds to come up so I can get rid of them easier before covering it up. I had tilled some grass and weeds here (it was being saved for when I finally found some Chuck Hayes plants!). With fingers crossed in Oregon... Mike Here is a link that might be useful:
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tbt3
Original Author
16 years ago
Kai,

Thanks for the input. I knew there had to be someone out their with both varieties. I was just looking for some good info comparing and contrasting these two varieties. I definately like the Chuck Hayes better because of the double blossom. I'm glad to hear you say that you think the fragrance is similar. I was so pleased with the fragrance of the Kleim's that I was afraid to replace it with Chuck Hayes if I would lose that great Gardenia smell. The beauty of the foundation planting is that I get a whiff each time I go in or out the front door.
When and for how long do your KH and CH bloom? Does the Chuck seem to bloom all at once like the KIeim's or are they more a few at at time? Any other differences I need to know?
I am in West Richmond about an hour east of you, and they do get some protection from the house, so cold hardiness should be ok on either. Was just up your way yesterday to see my brother. The mountains really are pretty this time of year.

Happy Gardening
TBT
kaihui
16 years ago
Hi, TBT,
I would recommend Chuck Hayes for you for sure. I assume you are in short pump area. You are closer to the ocean.

Well, my Kleim Hardy has about 2 week blooming duration, and so do my Chuck Hayes. The blooming duration has a lot to do with whether it is full sun or under shade (they do well in both conditions just like azaleas). If It is full sun, the blooming duration is a little shorter, I'd guess.

I was orginally from China, and I just found out that many flowers that I like are native to China. if you like gardenias, I would strongly recommend O. Fragrane and winter sweat. They both are very fragarnt, and grow like forest in my hometown in China. (Gardenia is also a very common plant in my hometown). O. Fragrance might not be cold hardy here (cold hardy to zone 7, but If I have a bad winter, ...). they have a better chance to survive in your area. Winter sweat is cold hardy here. They both have very nice fragrance (not just very fragarnt). You will just have to take my words for it.

Anotehr one is night blooming jasmine. It needs to be wintered in garage here, but it does very well in pots.

Good luck,

Kai

Kai
skippy05
16 years ago
I live in Philly & have a Chuck Hayes that I actually bought in Va Beach at McDonalds garden Center.
It is 2 or 3 years old now & is beautiful. Looks horrible in the winter, but survives & is blooming right now.
We have a small back yard so it is pretty protected from
winds etc.. I don't really do anything special to it, I dump some used coffee grinds in the soil once in awhile.
I don't think it bloomed the 1st year, but they told me that was normal.

Chuck Hayes or Kleim's hardy

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ankraras

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Chuck Hayes or Kleim's hardy

Comments (5)

ankraras

kaihui

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tbt3Original Author

kaihui

skippy05

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tbt3
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