Thank you for all the great responses. Good reports from all over! I am leaning towards getting both. I am worried about having too many tender roses, as a harsh winter could wipe them all out. But then I think, well, I don't know what's going to happen to ME tomorrow, if you know what I mean. Just last night, I stumbled upon some history about this the real KV. My 7th grader was working on some science homework about genetics. He had a chart of "some Russian family" as he put it, so I was trying to refresh my memory about Victoria and her daughters and I was led to our princess. Labrea - your pictures are always so great. I always enjoy your input, here and on HT (i just lurk there,). It's fun to look something up on HMF and see pictures from forum friends. Ingrid - I assumed that that KV had cupped blooms. I just glanced at the pics on HMF. I also didn't know it was as big as Labrea shows. Kathy - I'm know we met at Connie's. Thanks again everyone Maureen

We've seen flowers that double on DbB and have seen pink sports on MJS. I was very surprised when I first heard that there was debate about whether MJS was a seedling or sport of DbB, because I had seen it revert to DbB and thought there was no question. It would be nice to propagate from that sporting cane, Jackie, and see if it's stable since it looks like a very nice form. Anita

Reading all your messages has been like hearing the latest updates on my three sisters. That's a compliment and sincere thank you. Crohn's disease, Graves disease, fibromyalgia and arthritis (Rheumatoid/Osteo)have reared their ugly heads among my 3 sisters but left me inexplicably unscathed. The family is an autoimmune minefield...LOL. After the ONE night I went home to get some sleep I came back to my father's house to find 2 cars and no father. When your 82 year old father is MIA without explanation you naturally worry. Turns out he had a second serious bout of Atrial Fibrillation and went to the hospital without telling me. Ask me if I wasn't feeling guilty for leaving him and upset with him for not calling me. He didn't want to interfere with me taking my best friend to a colonoscopy appointment Monday AM. I didn't sleep again Monday or Tuesday nights but got a couple hours sleep earlier tonight when I landed back at my father's with Pop in tow from hospital/cardiology office. No Coumadin yet until results of 3 week montoring device show if he's having small episodes of A-Fib when he gets chest tightness on treadmill at gym. Coumadin and exercised induced symptoms are the worst for him. He's extrememly active physically (so he doesn't fall asleep!) although we're having memory issues. Well, I've whined again but it feels better to get it out. I went outside yesterday at first light to rake and do a little garden clean up. It was glorious and relaxing. If all stays well for next week or so I'll have cooked my 5th Thanksgiving dinner and actually gotten somewhat used to it. Part of family will be here and Dad can have his turkey dinner without dietary restrictions of blood thinner. He's all about his food but luckily for me not picky...LOL. All in all, I'm a pretty lucky chickadee tonight. :) Good wishes for all of your health challenges as well. I think I'm going to get some Lavender heat wraps to relax me when I'm exhausted but can't sleep.

I had more to say, but had to cut the above post short. How we handle the new plants we receive do has a lot to do with how they are planted. I used to plant them directly in the ground. Very few plants will do well here like that since we have quite a bit of clay. I found that I either planted them too deep or too shallow, both will set a plant back. Sometimes they will also sink after being planted awhile. I put them all in pots now, they arrive early in the spring, and by fall they have nice big root systems. I dig an oversized hole spread the roots out a little and fill the hole carefully and have avoided planting too deep or too high that way. I also throw in some milorganite, and some composted leaves, that along with the potting soil seem to help a lot. I gave up on the white sharks teeth plants like MORT MORSS and FORTUNES DEAREST will grow here, but they very seldom get the sharks teeth. I am convinced the weather is the major factor. I have had FORTUNES DEAREST quite awhile now, and it has only had one really nice toothy bloom that I can remember. I have also noticed that many of the Salters plants just will not thrive here and sadly must avoid them unless I see them somewhere up here doing well. I have killed quite a few of them. Northerndaylily, I suspect you are right. I was at Curt Hansons one day while he was cleaning plants from all over the south to take to the CanAm. I remarked on how huge some of them were and was told it was all about fertilizer, and that my friend is why we get those great big fans from down south and watch them shrink. We just don't fertilize like that and I suspect if we did we'd be able to grow them big too!