Natives/ideas for wooded backyard

16 years ago

I would like ideas for two areas of my backyard. The first is a sloped wooded area that I can see from my back deck and enjoy walking through. The two pictures below show the area and can be connected. The yellow indicates the area that receives 5-6+ hours of sun/day. The white arcs will be dry stack walls (1' high)to add definition to the area and hold on to some water. Soil is red clay. Please suggest plants of interest taking into account our water woes.

In this other area, I would like to provide some definition between my yard and my neighbor's. I painted in shrublike green things to show where they would be. I don't want the "wall" look that I have sketched but less formal. I have tried "yuletide" camelias but they have barely survived. The area gets high shade, has good soil but is pretty dry. Evergreen is not a necessity. Cherry laurels could work. See picture below.

Thank you

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Comments (10)

Iris GW
16 years ago
Well, I was all excited until you threw in that part about "taking into account our water woes".

For the sunny parts in yellow, certainly native azaleas would be lovely if that is 5-6 hours of morning sun. Other suggestions would be native viburnums (V. acerifolium can take dryer conditions than others) or chokeberry (formerly Aronia arbutifolia, now something like Photinia pyrifolia; there is a cultivar 'Brilliantissima' that has even better fall color).

For the last picture, have you considered a wax myrtle or two along with something else. Given the natural look, a mixture would be the most attractive arrangement. American holly would also be nice; the cultivar 'Savannah' is very attractive - it is "an interspecific hybrid of I. opaca and I. cassine" (two natives). The are also some yellow fruiting cultivars ("Goldie") of Ilex opaca that would be "wow".

Although GNPS will not be having a spring sale this year, I heard that Dunwoody Nature Center will be.
herboil
16 years ago
Wanna know what really gets me?

These property owners( whom are clueless) that plant, let's say, ortanmental oaks or flowers, etc.

WHEN INSTEAD..

Now they could be planting pecan, blueberry, apple or peach trees.....

Mind you, it's NOT all about yeild, and some will find said species to be unattractive or pesty.

However, tens years later when they azzalias are taking over and busty to cut back, they will be saying.. " BeaVER damm, why didn't I plant some productive things....

SOme other ideas are mints and perrinial herbs!! Do you homework( lavender, ROSEMARY, and even sage)

In the spring, plant basil and campanion productive plants around your established golden mines.;.

REMEMBER..... productivity doesn't have to be ugly.... I garden hardcore for myself and others, and produce many meals and smacks throughout the year.... this does not mean I don't do it in style...

love the sun! and love the rain!
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I would love to have those trees in my yard! I would add mulched paths, and open area with a naturalish fire pit with large stones set around it as seats. I would then add under story shrubbery, wildflowers, and native ground covers to the areas between the paths. I might also add some denser growing shade tolerant shrubs to provide some enclosure/screening around the fire pit area. One example could be oakleaf hydrangea. If there are areas where the trees are thin don't be afraid to add some other smaller under story trees such as redbuds. Here is a link that might be useful: More about Oakleaf hydrangea
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Now is a good time to start cleaning up. Cold and snow does not kill plants that are of that climate. Snow protects them. Photos can be misleading but it looks as if there's a gentle swale that carries the water off to the right (as facing back line.) It may be that you can improve the condition but one would need to know relative elevations of an area in order to determine the issue and what it would take to fix it. If you want to pursue, you should submit a sketch that explains where it's wet, and diagram drainage... as much as you can. You can obtain grade information over spans of long distances (width of your yard) using an inexpensive line level. If the swale I think I detect exists, you might determine its slope over the course of your yard and make sure that water can drain off of your property at the low end. It's a tricky bit to get rid of natural weedy growth and replace it with more refined screening. It requires that you raise the 'forest' canopy in order to bring light to new plantings set below. You'll be juggling needs of new plants vs conditions. Grass will not like shade so you might consider placing childrens' play equipment in a mulched area, rather than grass. It would be easier maintenance-wise to have mulch be what surrounds the plantings, too. Consider whether you'll need as much screening in winter as in summer. It's much easier to find deciduous plants that would work in this situation and do not become overwhelming in size. I'd like to put in a plug for Winterberry. Especially nice cultivars like 'Winter red'. It produces a heavy crop of long lasting berries that light up in the sunlight and bring cheer to the sometimes bleak zone 5 winter environment. It tolerates some wet and some shade (but not too much as best berry production come from exposure to sunlight.) In the summer it would screen well. In the winter it would heavily filter the view. Where you have more sun (forward and to the sides) you might consider using some of the large ornamental grasses, such as Miscanthus, for long lasting winter interest. I think it would look best if you implement a plan that is to scale with the property... use few species and large amounts of each... rather than many different type plants sharing the space.
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I am with Dottie that you would do well to plant next fall (mid-September to late October in your zone) to allow root growth but have less stress on the plants due to shorter, cooler days. Regardless of what you plant, it will need regular water until the ground freezes. This season you can evaluate the site and plan so that you are ready come fall. I also agree with Dottie about voles - you could ask on the perennial forum or on the shrub forum (whatever type of plant you end up with) for suggestions that seem less attractive to voles. Most types of deodar cedar (Cedrus deodara) are hardy to zone 7, so not an option for you, though there are some types rated for colder temperatures such as 'Kashmir', 'Shalimar' and 'Polar Winter'. I'd check around at local garden centers, botanical gardens, and arboretums to see if anyone has local information as to how they do before planting them. It's tough having a borderline hardy tree that does well for several years and then is half-killed during a particularly cold winter. My inclination would be to plant native plants or ones that you are sure don't have escapist tendencies since you are on the edge woodlands, and plants such as ivy or vinca can grow into the woods, disrupting the native plants. You may find that you have already existing woodland spring wildflowers when you go into the woods in the spring. (Be aware that spring is the worst time for ticks, though they around all of the warm season, so get in the habit of doing a careful check of clothes whenever you have been out in the yard, and of your entire body at least once a day if you have been outside at all. It takes a few minutes, but I include it in my bedtime routine and haven't had an embedded tick yet, though I find them on my skin and clothes often.) Light levels: If you plant the slope with typical meadow wildflowers, you may have mixed results, depending on the amount of sun you have. Something like Rudbeckia is really a sun flower, and so may not do particularly well there. I would start taking photos at 8:00, 10, noon, 2, and 4:00. Do this at the spring solstice (mid-March, 1st day of spring), and about once a month up until the summer solstice (mid-June, 1st day of summer.) This will give you a good idea of how much sun you actually get there. If you want to try Rudbeckia, I'd go ahead and do that this spring since it will establish better with less established grass. By planting time, you may have a pretty good idea of how much sun the area gets. Water and nutrients: You might want to ID the trees along the top of the slope; depending on what you have, they may send out more or fewer shallow roots into the slope area to compete with whatever you plant. I say this because they look to me like red maples, which have fast-growing shallow roots and will compete for water and nutrients with whatever you plant. So the sooner you plant, the sooner what you plant gets established enough to be able to compete with the red maples. If you have oaks, they won't be an issue since their roots are deeper. Watch the slope and see how water levels fluctuate over the year. If it is a recently cut bank, the soil may actually be subsoil and benefit from adding organic matter to the surface, or there may be springs that will cause problems if not addressed. I'd also get a soil test done (Cornell U does them among other places) to see what will grow well in your soil. For instance, that might be a lovely place for some rhododendrons, but only if you have acid soil. Mowing: If you end up deciding to keep this meadow, it will need mowing 2-4 times a year with a brush mower to keep out woody plants. In my area those woodies include sweet fern, red maple, staghorn, sumac, white pine, black cherry, all of which like open areas for their seedlings. Seeds will blow in or be brought in by animals, and some of them will start growing, often including non-native invasives such as buckthorn, bittersweet, barberry, burning bush, and Japanese honeysuckle. In the northeast and Great Lakes area, unmowed areas will always turn into forest eventually, so you want to mow to prevent the process from getting started. In our field we time mowings to allow the ground-nesting birds' chicks to hatch undisturbed (turkeys are our most frequent ground nesters), and to allow certain plants to bloom, but for a chunk of time it is just mowed field. You can time one of your mowings for early fall just before the leaves change color, which will allow flower seeds to ripen but prevent baby trees from storing nutrients. Your landscaper may have access to a brush mower to do this for you. 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herboil
16 years ago
oops. I'm a terrible speller, please do not undermine my intelligence because of that... I'll blame jack dandials tommorow for that...

For now, please consider the fruits of your labour, and "install" some good producing plants( even plating wild blackberries on the outskirts of your land)

ps- if you live near alpharetta, providence road, mainstreet and freemaville, I can help you with your work... email me!
herboil
16 years ago
one more note before I dig myself a bed

please do not plant holly bushes! for the love of kids or yourself... I'd hate to see someone fall into a thorn bush on accident..

at least with pear cactus, rasberry or blackberry you can fall into thorns and snack on some awesome eats,,,

GOOD EATS, as Alton brown calls them.

and like I may have mentioned before... some of these so called productive plants are unattractive??
Try saying that to a homeowner picking two gallons of blueberries, blackberries, and pecans all within a seaon, and twice as much the next year..
It will make it ALL WORTH IT to plant some FOOD instead of FLUFF!

FOOD VERSE FLUFF!

if you're a rich sun of a gunner who does not like stlye, I retract my previous offer to customize my opinion of your already limited ideals...

However I'm open to gesture,
Goodnight
Herb
stevega
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks Ellen.
As ususal you are right on with recommendations. I have some native azeleas growing back in the woods and I have transplanted one to see how it does. They are pink and about 10' tall. It's difficult to find young/small ones.
I have a varigated variety back near the fence that I got at Full Bloom. Does anyone around here have a selection of native azeleas? I usually have to go to Scottsdale Farms to find what I want. I know Lazy K in Florida has lots. Same question applies to the viburnum recommendations.
Any suggestions for native (or other) periennials? I have coryopsis, coneflowers, asters, daisys, salvia and caryopteris in the area. Some hostas and ferns in the shade.
Agree with the mixture idea in the other area. What would go along with the hollies?
Thanks again.
razorback33
16 years ago
Lazy K Nursey is located at Pine Mountain, GA, near Callaway Gardens. He has a retail Garden Center in downtown Pine Mountain also. Excellent source for Native Azaleas and other Native shrubs & plants.
Have purchased hundreds of plants there and they have all been top quality.
Worth a trip if you need lots of plants. Price is very reasonable.
Rb

Here is a link that might be useful: Lazy K Nursery 's Garden Delights Garden Center
Iris GW
16 years ago
I think Nearly Native Nursery in Fayetteville would have a lot of what you're interested in. They are closed for most of the month but will reopen after February 25th. I'll link their website below. They have azaleas and viburnums. I also found a couple of 3 gallon native azaleas at Home Depot last year (they had sweetshrub too, including the 'Athens' cultivar). Lazy K is near Callaway Gardens in Pine Mountain, Georgia, by the way. I would not be surprised to find that Nearly Native gets their azaleas from Lazy K, many places do.

Nearly Native also lists a couple of lesser known native evergreen shrubs: Dirca palustris and Osmanthus americanus. Check on wax myrtles too. I really like Illicium floridanum, but it can handle only morning sun.

You can get some viburnums this weekend at the GNPS Symposium on Saturday. There will be a few there to tie in with the presentation on native viburnums.

Suggestions for other sun perennials: Asclepias tuberosa (or other Asclepias, known as butterfly weed), Penstemon digitalis (beardtongue), Goldenrod (Solidago 'Fireworks' is a good one), Verbena canadensis 'Homestead Purple' (more of a ground cover), Mouse eyed coreopsis ('Nana') is a good performer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nearly Native nursery
lanier_2007
16 years ago
As far as where to look for good plants for your yard - put a star on April 11-12 for the Garden Expo in Gainesville, GA. It is held at the Chicopee Woods Agricultural Center and has been called "The best two day plant sale in Georgia." Lots of natives, ornamentals... rainbarrels and other water-saving ideas... garden art... Definitely worth the drive. It is put on by the Hall County Master Gardeners so if you bring your info they are more than happy to look at what you have and make suggestions that would suit you. The vendors are from all over the region and hand-picked to be reputable and knowledgeable. And there is sure something to say for being able to meet the people who grow and propagate the plants and be able to ask them specific questions!

On a more personal note, I have to say that I put in wax myrtle and love it. It is a nice shape and size and the birds love it. Native holly is also a nice one. Almost any native would be happy in your yard as long as it is native to the conditions you have! You just have to do the homework.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hall Co. Master Gardeners Spring Expo
stevega
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you for the suggestions and information. I am researching the growing requirements for the plants and will contact the various sources.

Sorry about the Lazy K location, I know better.

Concur on the Gainesville Garden Expos. I have attended the Spring and Fall Expos since I moved here a couple of years ago. Always come back with good stuff.
Thanks again
alex_7b
16 years ago
I would look to plant some more evergreens. The property looks pretty dreary with all those bare trees all winter long.

Natives/ideas for wooded backyard

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