>> "No form of vinegar changes body pH or has any effect on toxins. The body's natural processes, mediated largely through the liver and kidneys, eliminate waste products and toxic substances." It's as if you are still rejecting the efficacy of Cinchona bark for treating malaria because the Amazonian Indians haven't discovered the formula for the quinine it contains. Instead, they say that the bark of the Cinchona tree contains the spirit of the God Xohopichulato, which destroys the evil spirit that causes malaria. If you want to rest in your beliefs that there is no Xohopichulato and therefore Cinchona cannot help with malaria, fine. Just don't pretend it is science. It is arrogant ethnocentrism, not scientific empiricism. Your arguments are based on an arbitrary and artificial definition of the word 'toxin'. You are ignoring the fact that ordinary substances can build up to toxic levels under many conditions - for example, glucose can build up to toxic levels when there is insulin resistance. In such a case, anything that reduces insulin resistance or lowers glucose levels would in fact be a 'detoxification' process. Likewise, immune hormones like the interferons and interleukins are necessary under certain conditions, but at higher doses (ie when there is infection or chronic inflammation) they often cause side effects that range from unpleasant to lethal. In SARS, H5N1 bird flu, and other killer influenzas, the body's immune system destroys the body. Immune hormones that might sometimes be beneficial are produced at toxic levels. This is quite different from your idea of metabolic toxins that are normally handled by the kidneys and liver. The short chain fatty acids present in vinegar (acetate, proprionate, butyrate) have been repeatedly shown to lower inflammatory cytokines (which have been implicated as a contributor to migraines). These simple compounds also affect levels of leptin, adiponectin and other compounds that regulate glucose, and there is research implicating this in the pathogenesis of migraines. You have stooped to pseudoscience by refusing to look at the evidence that vinegar can dramatically change certain chemicals in the body. You seem to take comfort in linguistic tautologies about 'toxins' that have little bearing on the underlying facts of the matter. Here is a link that might be useful: Glucose, Adiponectin, Immune Hormones and Migraine.

The difference is that apple cider is just that, apples smashed and then pressed to extract all their juices. It's a sweet drink. Vinegar has gone through several chemical changes, first you ferment the cider from the apples, just like you are making beer or wine. Then a "mother" is introduced. There is no good way to describe a mother. If you have ever had a batch of vinegar sit around and get a nasty looking snotty mass in it, then you have seen a mother. The mother eats the sugars and converts them to acid. Fresh cider is sweet, then after fermenting it contains alcohol (like beer or wine) and then the mother converts the whole thing to vinegar. Air is what vinegar needs. Beer and wine are sealed to keep out air, but for vinegar to happen you need air, so you usually make it in a wooden barrel or a container larger than you need. The only downfall with making your own vinegar is that you never know the percentage of acid. You can use it for cooking but not preserving. So you can make salad dressing but not pickles, just because you can't be sure that it is strong enough to keep bacteria from growing. If you search the web you will find directions of making vinegar, even buying a mother. I am just now getting into making my own wine etc, so I have only read about the process. Good Luck!! Tami

Here is a quote from the Vinegar Institute: What is "Mother"? ""Mother" of vinegar will naturally occur in vinegar products as the result of the vinegar bacteria itself. Mother is actually cellulose (a natural carbohydrate which is the fiber in foods like celery and lettuce) produced by the harmless vinegar bacteria. Today, most manufacturers pasteurize their product before bottling to prevent these bacteria from forming "mother" while sitting on the retail shelf. After opening, you may notice "mother" beginning to form. Vinegar containing "mother" is not harmful or spoiled. Just remove the substance by filtering and continue to enjoy the product. " Mother, is really just particles of carbohydrates, not anything special. M

There have been a number of speculations on methods of making your own apple cider vinegar, many of which go from apples to cider to hard cider, finally to apple cider vinegar (ACV), a process that can be simplified. I'm not an expert on this, but did find information, and my small batches are well on their way, and smell wonderful. My first batch, in 2 one-quart canning jars, consisted of approx 3 apples per jar. I removed/trimmed the stem/blossom ends of the fruit, and washed them. These were cut into coarse chunk, skins and all, and packed lightly into cleaned jars, 2/3 or less full. If the jars are too full, you'll have overflow later as the apples ferment. Add enough non-chlorinated water to cover the apples, and add 2/3 tsp of sugar to each jar. Place a double layer of paper towel on each jar, and tie it on with twine or a rubber band. The apples will be obviously fermenting in a few days, and the apples should be pressed down/stirred a little at least daily for the first few weeks. I found it useful to "knock" the jars to get air bubbles to the surface and discourage overflow. The smell should be pleasant. If it's not, consider throwing this out and starting over. The apples, skins and all, will look like tan applesauce after a few weeks. Add more non-chlorinated water to bring the level back up, if necessary. The scent should be distinctly of vinegar. A 2nd batch I made used apples from a neighbor's tree, and these turned to 'mush' much more slowly than the others, but the progress seems the same. I'm half-way through this 12 week process, and stir the jars only once a week, checking to make sure no 'unfriendly' cultures or mold starts. Again, use the sniff test. The first batch of jars have 1/3 clear tan ACV over dense sediment. The 2nd batch only just finished losing its chunkiness, probably because the apples were granny smiths. This jar also has a somewhat solid disc of "mother', whitish and translucent, which I'm told is desirable. I press this down with a clean spoon every few days when stirring the mixtures, just to keep unwanted cultures from taking hold here. I'm guessing that at the 12th week, the jars should be strained through a coarse sieve, and the ACV bottled and saved. The organic ACV from the health food store has substantial mushy mother in it, so that's what I'll aim for. Any suggestions of what to do with the mother 'disc' from the later batch? Some of the solids after filtering will be used to inoculate new batches of ACV, and I guess the rest will go to compost? The organic ACV from the store was ~$5 for less than a pint--hopefully these batches at home will be worth the wait! The next batch will be in a much larger container. Has anyone used a method like this? I'm starting to ferment a lot in my quart jars--sourdough starter, yogurt, sauerkraut, etc. There's a trend here! --Rick in CT first batch, after 11 days: