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Pinus chiapensis

11 years ago

A rare white pine from Chiapas. I grew this from seed from B/T. It won't stop growing with continuous flushes. This is a problem in winter and it lost the top 25% last year, and re-grew that plus more this year. I think when it becomes more mature it will be less susceptible to freeze injury (I hope):

From December 2, 2012

Here is the leader in new growth right now:

From December 2, 2012

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Comments (12)

pineresin
11 years ago
Hope it succeeds.

How anyone can still consider that a variety of P. strobus is beyond me.

Resin
conifer50
11 years ago
Here's one at Longwood Gardens in Kennett Square PA.
There must at least one hardy clone!

Johnny

Pinus chiapensis
Planted in 1960, 47' high 51' crown spread
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Heart breaking pictures. Sorry. BUT, as you know, this is simply a fact of life in the world's most continental climate. (in the sense of ridiculous swings. While Siberia and Northern China are cold as can be in winter, they stay cold, and when spring arrives, it arrives for good) I've assumed the facilities that have to contend with it either use sprinklers or tyvek-like row cover/blankets to protect rare plants. We can just get so darn warm in winter. Resin and I had a chat a while ago about where to collect the Cornus florida that would do the best in the UK. He brought up the issue of northernmost collections being used to a winter that stays winter...but even that's not true. Syracuse NY is probably its northernmost range in the interior of the east coast, and even it can get warmer in February than London. Yes, only by a degree celcius, but you're talking about a zn 5 with 100+ inches of snow versus a zone 9 with many subtropical plants like Eucs being quite common. Of course a C. f. from Asheville might still be a better collection for the UK, but the notion even our northlands always stay cold is a false one. Related to the reason I came here today, apparently the guy who had the largest collection of magnolia hybrids in the SE lost a huge number of them back in 2006 or 2007 when a freeze in SC/NC brought temps to the teens in April after they were fully leafed out. 30' Gresham magnolias died totally...not even able to sprout again from the base. They have the Chinese & Himalayan genes that are used to the far more consistent winters there. This post was edited by davidrt28 on Tue, Feb 26, 13 at 14:28
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I am growing many, many species from Mexico here in Florida. Since many come from summer-rainfall areas, they do well here. Some of the easiest and best are P. patula, P. pseudostrobus, P. devoniana, P. chiapensis, P. montezumae and P. greggii. I had winter damage to P. maximinoi, P. pratermissa, P. luzmariae and killed P. hondurensis. I will try P. oocarpa this winter -- it grows well in Orlando.
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I recently read an article ( Forest Ecology and Management, Lu and Sinclair, 2006) in which Pinus strobus, wallichiana, and their hybrids were differentiated by wood specific gravity- strobus=0.314, wallichiana=0.357, wallichiana x strobus=0.334. According to the Tropical Tree Seed Manual, Pinus chiapensis has WSG of 0.34 to 0.38. So perhaps this would be another way to confirm the tree's status ?
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Patula is safe in the teens. I should have brought the ayacahuite seedlings in. It annoys the wife when I take all thus stuff inside. I need a greenhouse. Has anyone here in the states tried pinus Montezumae? Supposedly it grows at altitudes up to 3200 meters (2 miles) in mexico. Those trees should be hardier than the stated 20F
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pineresin
11 years ago
"Here's one at Longwood Gardens in Kennett Square PA.
There must at least one hardy clone!

Johnny

Pinus chiapensis
Planted in 1960, 47' high 51' crown spread"

I'd strongly suspect it is mislabelled. One at Kew labelled "P. chiapensis" has typical P. strobus cones, not P. chiapensis cones (which are quite distinct).

Can you get a close-up pic of the cones on this tree?

Resin
conifer50
11 years ago
Yep, it could be 'strobus' but one of that age would be much larger under typical conditions. I'll make a request for cones and/or pics.

Johnny
salicaceae
Original Author
11 years ago
Given how tender it is, I doubt it too. Mine is very tender and is growing great this year, but I hope we don't get any severe freezes soon!
conifer50
10 years ago
Well 2013 was a cone year at Longwood and I finally received a cone request!.....Resin, what's your opinion on the ID now?

Johnny
salicaceae
Original Author
10 years ago
I think its just strobus Johnny, but we'll see what Resin says. My chiapensis grows continuously through the year and even has tender new shoots on it now. It is getting huge quickly though and seems to be big enough to survive severe freezes (I hope).
Embothrium
10 years ago
Other internet pictures appear to show a chunkier cone for P. chiapensis.

I'm having problems with links on this site not working, both ones provided by others and ones I'm attempting to provide. So, I will instead say if you go to

http://www.conifers.org/pi/Pinus_chiapensis.php

there is a discussion of the taxonomy.

And a photo of a cone taken from a tree in a native stand.
pineresin
10 years ago
Most likely Pinus ayacahuite, or possibly P. monticola or a hybrid P. ayacahuite x P. strobus.

Resin
Embothrium
10 years ago
Longwood tree and cones don't look like P. monticola; spacing of cone scales is like P. strobus.
pineresin
10 years ago
"Longwood tree and cones don't look like P. monticola"

I've got some wild origin P. monticola which actually look quite similar - the species is very variable (more so than e.g. P. strobus). From some other pics that Johnny sent me, the base of the tree looks like it was mucked about with when young, so the crown shape isn't a good guide (no healthy white pine looks like that naturally!).

Resin
davidrt28 (zone 7)
10 years ago
"Planted in 1960, 47' high 51' crown spread"

"From some other pics that Johnny sent me, the base of the tree looks like it was mucked about with when young"

1963 was a cold winter, so, maybe freeze damage to the bark?

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