Thanks for your comments. If I saw some Pinus densiflora here I would have posted a comment on it growing here, but I have not seen any, but that does not mean they may not exist here. I hope and I wonder is there anyone growing Pinus densiflora, Pinus densiflora Umbraculifera or Pinus densiflora Umbraculifera "Tanyosho" in SC or NC, GA in zones 8/9. I'm growing one Tanyosho for several years in the ground now and despite it's rated as max. zone 7A in my zone (8A/8B but it seems to becoming z9) it grows fine, but it is a grafted specimen, I believe it is grafted onto an Austrian pine. I am now trying to germinate a few dozen seeds of it and they seem to rot at the stem and lean over a lot and are very fragile seedlings so far. Unlike Pinus pinea, which are much larger when they germinate. Not sure whether regular Pinus densiflora are the same as Umbraculifera and Tanyosho. It's a bit confusing. Perhaps someone can explain their differences. Also I'm growing Italian Stone Pine (Pinus pinea). They seem to grow like a menora shape while small and I do not have any larger specimens than 2 footers. I grow them from seed and germination rate is about 50% or more, but more than 50% of the seedlings will actually perish until they make it to a larger size. They grow very slowly, not more than a foot per year or less and have a lot of browned branches without green foliage. Years later I will have them available to dig up from the ground and in pots for trade to other trees with collectors. Orangeburg, South Carolina.

So you don't stomp on them with your snow shoes you should mark the cone with (pink tape???)... is that what you use Ken? I forget now. It's been a little while. That wiltpruf is counter-destructive in the sense that on warm / sunny / -- or winters where the winter ends short without having the product fully 'removed' from the plant is now going to cause the plant not to breathe correctly or the word I'm searching for I believe is "transpire." Winter temp fluctuations will kill an otherwise healthy plant because the fluctuations in temperature are asking the plant's metabolism to wake up and start working but it cannot because it's 'pores' are clogged. This wiltpruf takes a minimum I believe of three months for it to be weathered off the plant material, that's the reason for argument... It's the same effect if a human being were to where a full body snowsuit at a beach in Florida on a 60-80 F day. You're smothering yourself to the point of death because you cannot transpire... (breathe). My old boss who was a nurseryman all his life and in his fifties said all the way that it was nothing more than a product to put in someone's hand as they walked toward the cash register which I had a very difficult time doing if I may add. It was his opinion it was worthless but it made more money for the business in so few words. I think it's un-natural. I've also had nine years to think about this. Heck, they used to 'train' us to put a bottle of this guck in the hands of Portland, OR customers purchasing all Rhododendrons -- in Portland, OR. What I joke I mean. Heck, there, ... that's rhododendron paradise... maybe the best place or equally the best place in the world to grow these. Anyway... GO FOR IT!! LOL Dax

awwww .. come on .... BE THE TREE ..... let it be what it will be ... why force it into your preconceived noting of what it should look like ... yes you can force it into some direction ... but WHY???? it made your toes curl ... as you say .. fell in love with it ... and yet you walked away .. because it didn't take a form of your choice... i really don't understand this logic ... i used to be like that .... but as the collection grew.. and it always does ... i don't have time to torture every specimen into some preconceived notion of form ... i will guide grafted branches upward until the get the idea that they are leaders .... i will guide pendulous plants upwards... to give them some height.. before they hit the ground and spread ... but i will not torture a tree into a Xmas tree configuration ... if you really want it.. and really have to do it.. mail order a one gal plant.. that is 8 inches tall ... and start from ground zero ... i do not recommend starting with an expensive larger plant ... because you are already a few years past the point of getting the shape you want. ... someone like girard's offer gold ghost ...a yellower OD for under 40$ ... i can see messing with something in that price range ... but not if we are talking 200 to 400 dollars for a 6 footer ... my bottom line is always... if it makes your toes curl .... BUY IT ... or a smaller version .. and enjoy it... until it irritates you and then get rid of it ... if you go small ... say 40$ ... and you grow it for 10 years.. and fool around with it... is it worth 4 bucks a year??? heck you can pay that much for a cup of coffee ... and i will bet that cup of coffee.. when the time rolls around... you will never get rid of it.. because of all the joy it brought ... AND IT WILL HAVE ASSUMED ITS OWN SHAPE .... regardless of your unnecessary torture.... lol ... go smaller .. but go for it .... lifes to short ... ken

here is what you need to know you will never get a good pic of golds/white .. WITH WHITE SNOW IN THE PIC ... period .. ITS THAT CONTRAST THING I WAS TALKING ABOUT IN EARLIER POSTS ... AND YOU WILL NEVER DO IT IN BRIGHT SUNSHINE.. oops.. especially in snow .... try for pix at dusk ... when the sky turns pink ... if you walk outside.. and immediately squint.. just tell yourself you are not a professional photographer.. and put the camera away ... i suppose dawn would be the same.. but i am never walking the yard at dawn ... put the camera on auto ... and then adjust the contrast or lighting .. in your photo editor ... [OF WHICH I HAVE NEVER FOUND PHOTOBUCKETS TO BE ANY GOOD ... THOUGH I NEVER SPENT ANY REAL TIME TRYING TO LEARN IT. ... dam caps key .. since i already knew my own editor ...] in re your garage pic.. fluorescent lights lend a blue cast ... a whole different problem ... the beauty of the digital camera.. is just take a note pad.. and take lots of pix with different settings.. until you find the setting that is best ... ken