The subject of soils can be enigmatic until you grasp one simple idea. Favorable air porosity is essential to good plant health is dependent on good root health. Soils made of predominantly small particles (peat, composted matter, coir, sand, topsoil .....) cannot offer the air porosity offered by soils made of predominantly larger particles. Imagine the air space between BBs in a jar and sand particles in the same jar to visualize. Along with small particle size comes increased water retention. Lots of water in the soil is easy on the grower, but hard on the plant. Plants like damp and hate wet/soggy. Plants don't drink water, they absorb it a molecule at a time from the vapor in the air between particles and from the colloidal surfaces (the surface of soil particles). You can use the ingredients in either the 5:1:1 mix or the gritty mix and make a soil that is either exceptional in it's ability to gain the favor of plants, or make one that is virtually unusable; so even if the ingredients were the same, how they are combined and the size of the particles holds more sway over the likelihood that grower and plant will find the soil favorable. As an example: 5:1:1 of appropriate bark:peat:perlite yields a very good soil. The same ratio, but with peat as the predominant fraction 5:1:1, peat:bark:perlite yields a soil as water retentive as most commercially prepared soils. Finally, I see a LOT of ingredients in the mix you mentioned that are there to hook you into believing that this soil is healthy because you're envisioning all that wonderful kelp/guano/f-meal/oyster shells providing a buffet for the plant that will ensure wonderful health. The fact is, those ingredients have no real value for houseplants that you can't get from a bottle or Miracle-Gro or Foliage-Pro with greater efficiency and surety the plants are getting what's needed, when needed. Essentially those ingredients provide an unnecessary source of nutrients at the expense of aeration - so I look at them as far more likely to be a limiting factor than a plus. If you keep your focus on providing a soil with excellent drainage and long term aeration (all about particle size and durability of the particles) such that your soil holds minimal amounts (or no) perched water, you can't go far wrong. Remember that for container plants, providing good nutrition is a fertilizer thing, and not a soil thing. As far as practical experience with any one soil, the ingredient list can be very telling (as others noted with tongue in cheek), and you don't need to be the bus driver to know the wheels go 'round & 'round. ;-) Al

Hmmm. No one ever talks about the microbes. Microbes make top soil unique - definitely not the same as sub soil. Microbes act as the interface between the organic material in soil and the plants. Plants will suffer in sterile soils, not matter how rich the soil is, without microbes - unless of course, the soil is treated with synthetic fertilizers and/or hormones. Plants in soil without microbes (and no fertilizers) will essentially starve. Dirt is not an appropriate synonym for top soil. The two are quite different things. Top soil is almost impossible to store, as the microbes require oxygen. The oxygen only penetrates a few inches in the best of soils, to about 8 inches max. Heavy soils can have top soils that are only fractions of an inch deep, or even none at all. Deprive the microbes of oxygen, and the microbes die in hours. Plastic-bagged, manufactured top soil, will not have appropriate conditions for microbes to survive if they were ever present. Even true top soil, if harvested through grading and stored in piles, will only be true, healthy top soil on the top few inches of the mound. Within hours all of the microbes below the top layer of the mound will have died. True top soil is a living thing. Top soil needs to be harvested and properly placed in a very short period of time. Take a yard of dirt (or at least a good pile) from below the top soil, mix it with fertilizer-free compost, mound it up in a remote area of your yard and watch what happens - nothing. Nothing will grow on that pile, even though it is dirt amended with compost, because it essentially sterile. After one to two years, the microbes will begin to permeate the top layer of the pile and plants will start to show up. With true top soil, the mound would explode with plants after the first rain. Manufactured mixes "cheat" by stuffing the created mix with fertilizers. This works, but is lousy for the environment in many ways, and "hooks" your plants on synthetic fertilizers like drugs. When you hear such names as Monsanto, Miracle Gro, etc. think "pusher". Microbes do not like synthetic fertilizers, so once using fertilizers, you are stuck using them unless you do a lot of work to fix the situation, or wait until the soil regains a proper ecological balance. Plants will grow well in many types of media, even water, if given proper aeration and proper nutrition, i.e. fertilizer. But this is needlessly expensive and again, potentially problematic for our environment. True top soil is magic. It's ecology is wonderfully complex and is only barely beginning to be understood. No manufactured mix will do what true top soil can do for your garden. Growing plants really needs to be thought of first as growing your soil. True top soil, air, and water are vital to most life forms on Earth. We would all starve without true top soil, unless we were able to subsist on fungi. Labeling requirements for growing mixes are virtually non-existent. Those ingredients that might be listed will be very vague. Notice that no synthetic fertilizers are listed, even if they are there in quantity. Anyone can sell any dirt as topsoil, and people often do as a means to avoid disposal fees for dirt. Get top soil from people removing their raised beds, those who have graded the top few inches of an area, people taking out lawns, etc. or from your own backyard. If there are unused areas of your yard that support a dense mat of weeds, at least during wetter, warmer months, then that is true top soil. Yes there will be weeds, but a good mulch will take care of most of that problem. My advice to any gardener is to start with good top soil, nurture that soil by continually adding organic material, worm castings and compost tea, and use a good mulch. These items are 80-90% of the battle for the vast majority of plants.

Well, if you all want to get upset, I guess that's OK. Get some blood boiling. Anyway, it seems to me that the suggestion that I have some connection with Jiffy may carry some "negative implications". It's certainly unsupported by any evidence. But that's OK. It's not factual but believe it if you like. lunita: That's right. No side by side comparison. I didn't start out looking for one. I do think though, that a year-to- year comparison, in light of what some folks have to say about pellets, is not without validity even if anecdotal. "all the variables"...""different results"... granted but there wasn't really that much different, if anything except the use of potting soil instead of pellets. It's not a heavy potting soil with low nutrients, at least in my judgment and according to the purveyor. I don't believe I overwatered; at least the soil is not sodden and did dry out a bit between waterings. I'm very glad you have good results with what you are doing. So do I, but a big surprise this time. taz: I might point out that "Jiffy" pellets by themselves would not produce "a much larger, healthier plant/root system" They are obviously too small but I have consistently had a very good root system at the stage of 1/2" to 3/4" true leaves, which is when I repot, and certainly an order of magnitude better than what I saw this year. My plants have always gone on from there to have a very good structure (in potting soil by the way) and quick growth until ready to set out. I'm afraid I don't understand why you would want your seedlings to have "much longer to develop" if you could get them growing and outside sooner. To me, my objective is to get them out into the garden soil and sunlight as soon as I can. (Less time, less trouble) Then again, if you're happy with what you do, then I applaud you. digdirt: I haven't had the privilege of finding or seeing any such "photographic evidence with controls included" If you can refer me to the post or thread containing such information, I would like to see it.

If they are going into a pot do not use any garden soil at all. It should be soil less medium. There are a ton of potting mixes out there. Any of them will give far better results than soil in a container. Rule Number one for container growing should be. : Do Not Use Soil! Chances of a good outcome using soil in pots are not good. No matter how fertile the dirt is. If it were me I would advise using a bagged potting mix. Mix in some time release fertilizer. (I use Miracle Grow Shake n' Feed, or Mater Magic Tomato Dynamite (It is Organic) Plant the seedling into the pot with some type of support. (Stake, or tomato cage.) In the side of the pot I would put a wooden dowel, or bamboo skewer with a couple of inches of it above the top of the soil line. Use it like a dip stick. If it comes out clean, and dry water. If it is still wet looking to less than an inch or two down wait to water. Also a water soluble fertilizer should be used as directed on the label for feedings. The time released is to make up for the fact that the medium does not have the food soil web that an in ground plant will have. Note when using fertilizer: More is not better. In fact too strong of a mix will probably kill the plant. If in doubt mix it weaker than directed. Many dilute to half strength, and use it every time they water. Hope the info helps. Nate