Call the VA Dept of Forestry nursery and ask them who their seed supplier is. I called them a couple of months ago to find out what seed they sent the nursery and for the seedlings that the VA Dept of Forestry used for the two year seedlings they are offering this year, and it was Romania. I forget the name and number of the place--sorry.

One problem, however--they may have had seed from Romania three years ago but may not now. But you can ask, and maybe they can lead you to some other source.

Or, if you want Romanian source seedlings, get the two year ones from VA.

--Spruce

Hey Osprey, look at agriseek.com, forest trees. Someone from 'Rumania' is listing seed for Picea abies there. Might have been one page back. I'm not registered, so not sure how that site is working.

+oM

Spruce,

I was looking at the VA Department of forestry webpage, and they only sell them in 50's.Any other source?
Thanks

Osprey

Osprey:

No, I don't know who else may have seedlings from a Romanian seed source. But here is how I would try to track some down. First, I would call the VA Dept of Forestry and ask them who their seed supplier is/was. Then I would call that supplier and ask who else bought the Romanian seed. Another way would be to look up the various seed suppliers, give them a call, and see, if by chance, any had and sold Romanian source NS seed. The latter is a "scatter-gun" approach, but it could turn up something.

But if all else fails, you could buy the 50 seedlings and give away those you can't use. But if you want to get some NS trees adapted to your area, the more you can plant, the better your chances of getting some good ones. Several times before in these discussions of NS seed sources, I have emphasized the large amount of variability inherent in most NS seed sources.

In fact, one provenance trial Dr. John Genys did seemed to show that even in two seed batches from the same area, the performance can be very different. And conversely, two sources from very different areas can sometimes perform very much alike. There can be different explanations for this--one being the planting of strains from one part of Europe into other areas. And another explanation can be as simple as how the seed was collected. When I collected for one of Dr. Genys trials, I very carefully selected the best trees in each stand to collect from--that collection method can yield quite different seed from a collector who just goes along and gathers everything. For example, in the stand near Glady, WV that impresses me so much, I found a few trees that were, comparatively speaking, "runts," but which were prolific cone producers. I avoided these.

Anyway, if you can't get Romanian seed or seedlings, I would try other potentially compatible sources. My impression is that except for the very obvious mismatches with your own climate, you could turn up some really good strains for your area in places you might not anticipate would be that good.

--Spruce

"I found a few trees that were, comparatively speaking, "runts," but which were prolific cone producers. I avoided these"

Depends on what one wants the trees for. Agreed for forestry use, but for ornamental trees, or for attracting birds like crossbills, a slower-growing tree with heavy cone production would be desirable.

Resin

Would Picea abies from the Bohemian Forest (Boehmerwald) be a good source, or not really.

osprey

I think the Boehmervald source would be worth trying. Actually when you asked about Romanian sources I had thought that Austria is at about the same latitude. Of course altitude and temperature are other factors.

A while ago Resin and I had a brief discussion about the influence of latitude on the appropriateness of seed sources and general species adaptability. I think in the end we agreed to disagree. He cited a number of species that grow at very different latitudes than their origin, if they were at altitude and grew at similar temperature and moisture levels. But I was not convinced because the examples he cited, although they did grow sucessfully, seemed to me not to grow nearly as well as in their native habitats. If latitude is important, it may be more so for some species and less so for others.

The question arose because of my observations--very incomplete, I admit--that NS did not seem to me to do very well in the US in more southerly places like Asheville, NC even though the climate was very similar to more northerly places where NS does well. Of course NS does grow fairly well in Asheville and the surrounding areas, but the overall vigor seems to me to be somewhat deficient. Of course there could be some area-wide soil nutrient issues or some other factors, but I am dubious about that.

Anyway, I tried some Boehmervald source NS seedlings at my tree farm a number of years ago and they did fine--maybe no better than some other strains, but my place up there is a cold Z5 with generally lots of moisture and nighttime temperatures colder than much of Z5. But your environment is quite different and these may do better for you than the usual strains I use here.

Carino has some Boehmervald source trees, but as I noted before, they can't really send you any that they can positively identify as such--they don't track their seed sources after the seed is planted. On the other hand, I asked the question in a fairly casual way--if you called and explained why it was important, perhaps someone there could remember which field was planted with Boehmervald seeds and mamage to send you some seedlings.

--Spruce