Loblolly or Shortleaf pine

9 years ago

I was wanting to get a few pine trees, but wasn't sure which type would do the best where I lived. I am in north Texas, about 30 miles northwest of Fort Worth. I have sandy soil with a lower pH than most of north TX (around 6.8). Precipitation can vary greatly from year to year, sometimes barely reaching 30 inches, to over 40.

I have narrowed my choices down to the Loblolly and Shortleaf since they are TX natives. After some research, it appears that the Shortleaf is more cold and drought tolerant, so I was leaning towards it. I have heard about the Bastrop "Lost Pines," an ecotype of Loblolly that is more drought tolerant, but haven't found any sources. I would really appreciate any advice. Thanks.

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Comments (5)

scotjute Z8
9 years ago
Not sure Shortleaf can handle soil pH of 6.8. Was under the impression that their highest pH was 6.5. Perhaps others can verify that.
Loblolly should be able to grow in soil up to 7.0.
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pineresin
9 years ago
Plant half of each ;-)

Not in an even grid mixture though, little clumps of one here, the other there, and so on.

Resin
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Hi John: I imagine it is difficult to identify some of your seedlings at this stage. The Virginia Department of Forestry published "Native Trees of Virginia" (124 pages) this summer. This publication includes tree identification info and and a key to common native trees. I think it would be useful for almost anyone since these trees are common to many areas of the country. It includes keys to common native trees, then a cross reference to a page about that tree. Here is what it says about shortleaf and loblolly pines: 6 a. Needles 6 to 9 inches, cones 3 to 6 inches long Â Loblolly Pine, pg. 21. b. Needles 8 to 18 inches, cones 6 to 10 inches long Â Longleaf Pine, pg. 22. Page 21: "Loblolly pine: Needles: 6 to 9 inches long, pale green, slender and stiff, in bundles of three" 8 a. Needles 3 to 5 inches, dark yellow green, cones 1Â½ to 2Â½ inches long Â Shortleaf Pine, pg. 20. Page 20: "Shortleaf pine: Needles: 3 to 5 inches, slender, flexible, dark green, in clusters of 2 or 3." This book has been helpful in improving my limited tree identification skills. I downloaded it for free but cannot find a download link now. You can purchase it for $1.00 from the Virginia Dept of Forestry (link below). Here is a link that might be useful: Native Trees of Virginia
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As for pests--I have had some problems with sawfly larvae. Two years ago I had them on three of my young white pines. I picked them off--it took three or four tries to get them all. On those trees they have not come back. But this year, suddenly, they began to devastate my shortleafs. I tried picking them off, but after one or two tries, they became so numerous, I had to get a spray. The first one, some kind of organic insecticidal soap, killed a lot, but did not solve the problem. I then got another spray and after three more sprayings, I got the last of them. If I had done nothing, all of them would have been completely defoliated. There were literally thousands of these larvae, and they clustered in bunches of 20 or so as they ate all the needles off the twig ends. I read that this problem is worse when the young trees are growing in a field, amid weeds and brush, as mine are. When these trees get big enough to resist buckrubbing damage, I will mow around them. For now it is good to keep them more or less hidden in the weeds and brush. Of course, I keep them from being shaded. And I have the best ones in wire cages for protection. I also had a terrible problem with the sawflies on my Vanderwolf pine--a kind of white pine cultivar. They were all over this tree and would have completely defoliated it if I had not sprayed. I also had some kind of fungus attacking the needles of my shortleaf pines, but it seems it did little harm. But in the spring before the new growth started, it looked serious. I will see what happens with that this next spring. I hope I will not have to spray for that also. --Spruce
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Thanks everyone. Smivies, poster "beng" from western Maryland in zone 6 is growing 'Montane' ecotype longleaf that was sourced from northern Alabama. This is the same natural ecotype where I discovered this broom. He said his 'Montane' ecotype longleaf pines went through a zone 5 type winter (last winter), and they only had some light freeze damage to the lower old needles, but that is it. Also in this part of the natural range where I found the broom, the trees easily lived through temperatures below -15ÃÂ°F during the 1980s very cold winters. There are a few that over 80 years old in this part of the range that have been through past ice storms and wet heavy snows and they look fine now days. I have a FL sourced Longleaf pine that had snow damage and yellowing of the leaves after this past winter when we got down to 0F, and it also had a broken branch from the heavy wet snow. But the native northern ecotypes looked perfectly dark green and healthy after this past winter with no limb breakage I could see. This post was edited by treeguy123 on Tue, Dec 23, 14 at 20:14
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scotjute Z8
9 years ago
I planted some of the Bastrop area Loblollies in north Louisiana several yrs ago. They didn't seem to be growing any better than the native Loblollies. The state of Tx used to sell them when they ran the e. Tx. nursery. Might write the state forestry dept. to see if they can tell you who grows them now.
I always liked the look of the Shortleaf pines better, and they will come thru an ice-storm with considerably less damage. There are several towns around Stephenville, Hico, DeLeon area where people have planted what appears to be Loblolly pines in town. They appear to be doing well and are up 40' and higher. Rainfall is similar I think to where you are. Also the soil in that area has transitioned from blackland clay (alkaline) to reddish sandy/clay (probably neutral - slight acidic). Good luck.
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
9 years ago
being hardcore MI ... and TX may as well be mars.. i have been holding on ...

but resin finally said it ... go for it ...

it sounds like you have the property to do it ...

when it all boils down.. its all about micro climates.. and that includes soil ... weather.. etc ... all the variables ....

we can all gaze at out navels.. drink a 12 pack or so ... and come to a multitude of conclusions.. which will be basically worth the empty cans ..

just plant things.. and find out.. what will grow in your area... in your soil.. with your weather .. etc ....

and then you become the next TX expert ..

if you dont.. then we are just left with scot.. lol ... and i swear.. he has tried EVERYTHING ... and that is why he is our esident TX dude ...

definitely go with rather cheap.. one to 2 footers ... and see what happens.. you have a small investment.. and we all will learn... presuming you report back ...

ken
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Elektron
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably plant a few of each and see how they end up doing.

I am still curious about the Bastrop loblollies vs the normal loblollies. Ideally, I would want at least one of each: Bastrop, regular loblolly, and shortleaf, to compare all of them. I'm going to keep trying to find a source for some seeds or seedlings from the Bastrop area.
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Loblolly or Shortleaf pine

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scotjute Z8

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Loblolly or Shortleaf pine

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scotjute Z8

pineresin

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scotjute Z8

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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