hey

why are you applying a systemic in a preventative manner ...

i have about 600 conifers..

in the last ten years.. i have treated 4 with a systemic ... and that was for scale ....

all other insects are minor and rarely require treatment ....

other than that.. we apply insecticides according to the MSDS or the label ... no winging it

now.. lets here about your dream list.. do you have next years list done yet?????

ken

I'd be extremely reluctant to use Merit anywhere in the garden unless it was a last resort, called-for insect control. The active ingredient, Imidacloprid, is a neonicotinoide that has some very direct links to bee colony collapse. This is not a product you want to be using willy-nilly. I realize that conifers are wind pollinated so not as inclined to be visited by bees as are flowering plants but this is still not a product I'd encourage using in any garden unless the reasons were very compelling.

thanks for the response.Both had very good points.I have a neighbor with a doug fir that is 60 feet tall and is a host for bagworm.I just moved here this summer, and have realized that my arboravitaes are infested also.First, i have discussed this with my new neighbor, and he seems agreeable to cutting this doug fir down.Its pretty much dead already

In the spring, i am looking at bringing in 30 -50 trees(fir/pine/spruce/cedarâ¦to name a few)the last thing i need is to do this, and then have problems.So, my initial thought was to just do preventative maintenance by using the granules.I realize bagworms are not on the merit label.Talstar is more appropriate for bagworms here.

I will have some hemlocks also, and we know the Adelgid issues that they can have.In the next 5 years,i want to bring in a lot of deciduous and evergreen trees and shrubs.Typically, each tree can have similar pest problems,but also unique pest issues as well.Although i plan to have a 25 gallon sprayer, its obviously easier to just use the granules.Also, as the trees get larger, it becomes more difficult to spray, unless you hire a company , which always costs much more.

Also, as Ken mentions, not all conifers have pest issues.
And by the way, 600 conifers is pretty awesome!
Long Island , New York in the summers is hot and humid,and if trees and shrubs are monitored carefully, insects can do big damage quickly.

Another issue, is bringing in trees from any nursery , whether it be local or not, can easily import pests that aren't obvious unless we are on our toes actively looking for them.Not everyone can be constantly aware of this on a daily basis.Thats when we get caughtâ¦Any way, its a good conversation , and i will continue to research,thanks for the replies!

Yes Bobbo, you make some valid points. However, as a pro horticulturist (Since the mid 1970s), I just do not believe in preventative programs such as you describe. It seems extremely likely to me that the vast majority of the imidacloprid you would be putting down would be doing absolutely no good for anything, and that at least some of it would be making mischief somehow. I also want to say something to the effect of 'why would you want to begin your garden with pest control occupying the front and center spot', or something like that.

There is at least one member here who does indeed perform preventative spraying/chemical application in his yard. That yard, by the way, is drop-dead gorgeous. So I'm not here to say what you contemplate is wrong. It's just wrong in my worldview.

+oM

I don't grow any plant that I have to spray for bugs to keep them healthy and looking good. There are plenty of choices to choose from and I don't feel very limited.
Is that an option for you?
Mike

That is absolutely an option that i have thought about.I have seen hemlocks in my area do well, because the homeowners have a good program,

A good program?
Can you explain it a bit more?
Mike

Sure,for example, if you want to have Hemlocks in this area, you need to treat them with oil for the Wooly Adelgid.Most people don't bother with Hemlocks because of the Adelgid, If you know how to maintain the tree, it is nice to have in the landscape

I'm wondering how the Hemlock from here would do where you live,
Tsuga heterophylla. Or even maybe Tsuga mertensiana, the Sub-alpine Hemlock is one of my favorite trees.
Mike

i looked at both, and they are very nice specimens.I tried to upload a pic of Mertensiana, but it wasn't coming through.Im going to do some research on Tsuga, as there are some very interesting choices.

You mention: In the spring, i am looking at bringing in 30 -50 trees(fir/pine/spruce/cedarâ¦to name a few) the last thing i need is to do this, and then have problems.

It sounds like you are looking to develop a collection. Long Island is a great climate for most of the genus you reference above. There are few major issues with many of the popular species and cultivars of pine, spruce, fir and cedar in your area. Applying Merit to your entire property or even entire planting area would be overly aggressive and encourage excessive leaching. Management of any pests and diseases should take an IPM approach - see link below. Also, Long Island has unique rules for application of Merit, please look into these prior to applying: http://ccesuffolk.org/assets/galleries/Agriculture/Imidacloprid-BMP-Arboricultural-Uses.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell IPM Trees and Shrubs

I think i came across a bit strong in my opening post.To backtrack a bitâ¦..I haven't heard of anyone using Merit granular in this way.It was a thought, that because Merit is a systemic, that instead of spraying, i could target only the trees that are susceptibleâ¦for example, any Birch tree planted here is automatically going to have to fight off the Birch Borer.Its just a matter of time.River and Heritage Birch do better.I thought that it would make sense to use the Merit granules for a situation like thatâ¦.specifically targeting trees like thatâ¦.I don't plan on broadcasting Merit all over the propertyâ¦.Although, Merit is popular for lawns to control grubs.It is true, I'm looking to plant many unique trees/shrubs.The property is 1.5 acres,and flat.There is literally nothing here, so a blank slateâ¦Very excited to get going in the spring!!Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated!

I've heard of conifers getting an Award of Garden Merit.

But never an Award of Granular Merit.

;-)

Birches have more problems than just the birch borer. Here, they are susceptible to breakage from ice and wet snow and look the worse for it.
How do they do where you live? Any good looking older ones?
Mike

occasionally,we have heavy wet snow/ice, which damages everything.Ill be the guy out there at 1am with my broom smacking my treesâ¦.Funny pine resin!

Birch trees do well here, but have to be monitored.Also, in my research, i stumbled upon the Chinese Hemlock, which has proven to be resistant to the Adelgid

Bobbo, I never thought you were suggesting slinging the insecticide all over the place. To me, it seems like this particular product-granular imidacloprid- is so easy to use and can controls so many pest insects that it is tempting to use, period, and that with that comes overuse. But I meant generally, not specifically on your part. I remember when organophosphates were all the rage. I worked for a park dept. at that time and it got so bad, one year I witnessed a park worker spraying diazinon directly onto the dispensing nozzles of a soda machine set up for a carnival, to keep hornets away. Also that year, a guy that worked for us only in the capacity of landscape architect had a gallon jug of the same chemical in the back of his truck all summer. That stuff was mixed at the rate of 1/2 oz./gal. of water! He needed a gallon, for who knows what? The whole season had just gotten crazy. Now, a scant twenty years later, those products are severely limited. I could see the same happening with neonicotinoids at some point soon, as they proliferate, and their bad side is revealed.

But I digress. There are, of course, still legitimate uses for control products. And by using Merit in the way you've described, you would indeed be targeting carefully. But I think you'll still have more fun if you can avoid that whole scene, by picking plants which don't have extant serious insect problems. I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where HWA is not presently known. And especially up where my land is, hemlocks are all over the place. That aside, I think some of the thought-to-be resistant species look promising.

+oM

Thanks Wisconsitomâ¦this is what the forum posts,imo, are all about.The examples you spoke of are pretty scary.I worked for a fertilizer/seed/chemical company, and have heard a few myself.I have been giving a lot of thought to this. I think the infected(decimated) Doug Fir that my neighbor has overlooking my yard is creeping me out.This thing is just hammered by Bagworm, and i see the effects on my arboravitaes because of it.)Bagworm love Arboravitae,so no surprise there.Generally, i would say 95% of the trees and shrubs i will bring in will be manageable, without Merit.

Part of me wants to not be restricted by pests ,that can be controlled,maybe a challenge of sorts i suppose.Or, because I've seen Hemlocks in the area doing well,i feel i should be able to use them.If i can find some Chinese Hemlock, maybe its best to stick with that.

Another issue,I've thought about, regarding spraying, is that the insecticide kills many insects (frogs too)that are not pests.Its a fine line, and i plan to dial this in so its responsible and effective.

Lastly, maintaining the trees/shrubs with adequate water and feeding is very important for the trees to naturally fight off the effects of disease and insect damage,My irrigation system is being updated in the spring, and will be dialed in as best as can be.New drip lines for all of the new trees and shrubs, with some overlap from the lawn rotary heads.The summer months take their tole on newly planted trees.Also, there are a bunch of Cherry trees (Pin i believe)that are pretty hurting.Im curious and hopeful, that when my irrigation is all good, these trees(30 to 40 footers)will come alive and give me a reason to keep them around.I really don't want to cut trees down unless necessary.!Great stuff here!thanks again

Forget if you already told us, but what region are you in? A lot will depend on that datum. Nothing wrong with making nice and complete preparations. Everything I seem to do is plant them and their on their own from that moment on!

I'm also fortunate-especially for a guy that prizes arb/chamaecyp. foliage above nearly all-that bagworm does not seem to operate well (Yet?) in this area. I'd hate that.

Certainly, greater use of pest control materials=greater opportunity for off-target issues.

Oh man, I just looked back and I see you're in Long Island. Almost can't believe you don't get sufficient moisture there naturally. Other than stuff like pots, annual flower plantings, etc. it seems for your trees and shrubs, the irrigation will be great to have during their establishment and maybe not even really needed much in subsequent years. I'd guess you get a little more humid heat there than we do, but also more overall moisture. Does it get that dry, besides for new plantings I mean?

+oM-watching rain continue falling for perhaps the 50th straight hour.

i wish i had more of a green thumbâ¦but i try .In the summer we get about a month of brutal heat..so new plantings need to be watered, every day,,,sometimes twice to be sure.Also, because of the humidity, lawns can be susceptible to fungus, which can blow out a major area in just a couple of days.Most people misdiagnosis this as the lawn is dying, and can look dryâ¦so they water more and spread the fungus liberally.Typically, spring and fall are great for growing, but if one isn't on their game, a lot of hard work can get ruined in just a week of 100 degrees in August.I had another thoughtâ¦.With your new plantings, because you are so far north (I'm zone 7), do they stress in the winter?The reason i ask, is because even though there is snow on the ground, that doesn't necessarily equate to new roots getting water because it is frozen ground for a few feetâ¦..Or, are the trees somewhat dormant, and it doesn't matter?i knowâ¦newbie question, i don't have a lot of experience with trees..My background is in turf

Some of each can occur. Best case, I would suppose, would be thick snowcover before ground freezes. But you are by no means assured of this from year to year. But at the same time, yes, these plants are pretty much dormant, or as dormant as conifers get. They're tough though-much tougher than we sometimes recognize. And yes, I know what pythium looks like in turf during warm, humid conditions. Work with our golf course guy quite a bit. Pays to really check out what you've got going!

+oM