Can you help narrow it down...or maybe I'm set?

13 years ago

Should I avoid (Dax said to avoid nigra), favor or offer certain cutural requirements beyond good drainage for any of these plants?

Yes, I know they are run of the mill. These are my core conifers and are readily available at good prices.

All of them will be planted in somewhat alkaline sandy soil that is heavily populated with large stone...perfect for these plants(I believe?).

Full sun, minimal protection from wind, ranging from West to North to East exposure.

With the exception of nigra and abies most of these plants grow slowly around here. A 15 year old pungens may only get 15'-20' tall.

Personally I like the look of strobus and glauca more so than the others.

Pinus strobus

Pinus nigra

Pinus sylvestris

Picea abies

Picea pungens

Picea glauca var. densata

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Comments (9)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
all nigra are total dogs in my yard ... WOOF!!! ... even the healthy ones look sickly all the time ... i wish they would die.. but they wont ... which i take to mean they are NOT really sick ...

BTW ... new house????? how big is the yard????

pungens will grow about 1 foot to 18 inches per year once they get going [see pic of hoopsi below] ... you will need a 15 to 20 foot circle for the next decade or 2... give them space... if you want a blue one.. get a blue one... or even bluer.. a named variety ... DO NOT BUY A GREEN ONE.. AND HOPE SOME DAY IT WILL TURN BLUE ...

sylvestris and strobus are forest trees .... IMHO ... growing 3 to FIVE FEET per year.. inside of a year or two ... they will need 20 to 30 feet of ground space inside of a decade ... is that really what you want ... and picea abies are not that far behind .... google any of them.. and flip to the images side.. to see the gigantic potential of all of them ....

i did the same thing you are thinking ... using species as backbone... and i will yell... ON MY FIVE ACRES.. 8 TO 10 YEARS LATER.. SOME OF THEM ARE TOO BIG ...

frankly.. i think you are focusing on the BARGAIN.. and missing the point ... there are a lot of very nice named cultivars that will have a much more manageable footprints in the future .... do NOT jump simply because of the bargain ...

all of these grow in native mountain ranges.. which have rocky sparse high drainage low fertility soil ... so ignore that variable... but i have no clue about the alkaline soil issue and will defer to others ...

IMHO.. sand is the best for any tree .. and conifers are trees .... and throw in shrubs also .. sand is only an issue with water loving annuals/perennials ... and bulbs that need a good deep soil to thrive ...

how about some pix of the new moonscape.. that you want to turn into a landscape ...

ken
a one gal hoopsi planted in 2003 ....
{{gwi:205545}}

Here is a link that might be useful: link --- interchange strobus
whaas_5a
Original Author
13 years ago
Hey ken, good points and well taken.
As I look around and estimate the size/ages of these confiers in my area they appear quite small/slow growing.
My previous neighborhood did have several pungens and abies that were 20-25' wide but those houses where built in the 60's. My time/choices are precious consideirng I only have a 1/2 acre.

Can you suggest actual cultivars and sources that may help reduce the potential footprint in the future? My primary goals are green/blue winter interest and screening/privacy.

My builder told me the 7' White Spruce in my front yard is ~10 years old....he planted it as a baby and has owned that land up until now.

These are the plants I can easily get and select

Picea
ALBERTA - ALBERTA BLUE
ALBERTA - BLUE WONDER
ALBERTA - DWARF (UPRIGHT)
ALBERTA - JEANÃ¢ÂÂS DILLY
ALBERTA - ORIENTAL POM POM
ALBERTA - RAINBOWÃ¢ÂÂS END
ALBERTA SPIRAL
BABY BLUE-SUPER BLUE
BABY BLUE EYES - SEMI DWF
BLACK HILLS
COLORADO BLUE
COLORADO GREEN
CUPRESSINA
FAT ALBERT (GRAFTED BLUE)
ISELI FASTIGIATA
LITTLE GEM
MUCRONATA
NORWAY
ORIENTALIS AUREOSPICATA
PROSTRATA - BICOLOR
PUMILA - DWARF NORWAY
R.H. MONTGOMERY
SERBIAN
WALDBRUN

PINUS
BLUE SHAG (DWF WHITE)
EASTERN WHITE (SHEARED)
EASTERN WHITE - DWARF
EASTERN WHITE - FASTIGIATA
JAPANESE WHITE
JAPANESE WHITE - BLUE ANGEL
JAPANESE WHITE - FUKUZUMI
MUGO - WHITE BUD
SCOTS (UPRIGHT)
SILVER WHISPERS
SWISS STONE
VANDERWOLFÃ¢ÂÂS PYRAMID
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
you can get just about ANYTHING EASILY .... if you are willing to mail order ...

check out the link for one supplier that has much to choose from ...

its getting a bit late for fall planting .... but talk with the link peeps ... they are in the same zone... so maybe it can be pushed ... but i would not be ordering from z8 PNW suppliers at this time of year in the great white north ... or wait for spring...

copy/paste this link for a tutorial on ANNUAL GROWTH RATES ... on a 1/2 acre ... you want to be looking at dwarf plants .. and its all about the growth rate ...:

http://britishconifersociety.org.uk/bcs/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=3

then at that same locale.. use the database to find info on a lot of the plants you are looking at ....

yeah.. i exaggerated a bit on footprints.. so you would get the idea .... but in all truth.. i would rather you have a hoopsi for 10 years.. for the most toe curling blue you will ever see .... and then cut it down and start over ... perhaps the coolest xmas tree you will ever have.. rather than settle for some plain ole, plain ole.. because it fit in a given space ....

finally.. start looking for mini conifers.. that have a growth rate of about one inch per year ... if you really get the fever for carefree, year around plants .. check out this rather current post :

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/conif/msg110419231406.html?13

just dont be in a hurry just because of the bargain ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link
gardener365
13 years ago
Serbian spruce
orientalis Aureospicata as a visual point
Iseli Fastigiate - note spelling
Norway spruce

I'd pick up that Waldbrunn (spelling) in a hearbeat.

AVOIDDDDDD:
Scots
Vanderwolf's Pyramid - opens up and is not suited for Wis.

To be quite honest - I'd use all serbian. I remember your slightly sloping backyard with the grey house.

Dax
whaas_5a
Original Author
13 years ago
Thats the one! Most of the backyard is on a 30 degree pitch. Ony the front will provide even mositure.

I've read good things about serbian spruce but they appear creepy and sad from the images online.

Do you have any pics to share?

ken, I took a look at girard's and didn't see any sweet spot sized conifers, lets say 20' tall x 15' wide. I do see alot of interesting items there for 10' tall or less. I like the hoopsi btw. Size hits the sweet spot.
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
13 years ago
Surely not
. Stately with a small footprint, I'd say. Serbians would be my first choice, but I'd also diversify. The spring growth of Picea orientalis 'Aureospicata' is great but when it gets to coning age you'll have an ah-ha moment. Picea abies and Pinus cembra and Abies concolor would all work as well. Remember, sizes given are usually 10 years.

tj
wisconsitom
13 years ago
But but but.....your original idea of creating the 'skeleton' of your yard, using large-growing species is certainly valid. Should you get into the dwarfish versions, you will have plenty of space for that, underneath and around the big guys. To me, there is nothing quite like a big Norway spruce or white pine with other 'garden' plants in the same design. It's a very cool option.

BTW, not sure if Austrian pine was on your list, but that one I would avoid. Too many disease problems.

+oM
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
you said: and didn't see any sweet spot sized conifers, lets say 20' tall x 15' wide.

==>>>>please focus ....

all conifers.. as the trees they are.. once established from planting.. HAVE AN ANNUAL GROWTH RATE .... as i noted above ...

ALL SIZE ESTIMATES are approximate.. AT 10 YEARS ... and EVERY SINGLE YEAR THEREAFTER .. they will grow at the ANNUAL GROWTH RATE.. basically.. for the rest of your life and potentially for a century after ...

i did leave out the estimated size discussion above... so forgive me ....

if it grows a foot a year.. in 10 years.. it will be 10 feet tall ... in 20 years.. 20 feet... etc ... and with some of those you list.. it will continue .. POTENTIALLY to 100 to 200 feet ... though presumably.. it wont be your problem by then.. lol ...

resin once said that a redwood will slow down at some point over 300 feet as it can not overcome gravity in its ability to lift water 300 feet ... or something like that ...

but in all reality.. they really never stop growing at that annual growth rate ...

now.. you posted pics all about your old place.. why cant we have some new pics of the new house???? ... or arent you quite there yet???

i really have no vested interest in which you opt for.. i am just trying to tell you about the mistakes i made 10 years ago ... and trying to make you think outside of the box you have securely duct taped yourself into [based on local bargains] ....

again .. whatever decision you make.. will be fine with me... as long as it makes you happy ...

ken

ps: ... your sweet spot idea ... is more of a shrub thing ... as to which you got real involved with at the old house .... but these are trees ... there is no tree rejuvenation pruning to keep a tree in a space ... they are like bunny batteries.. they just keep on going ....
whaas_5a
Original Author
13 years ago
I promise to post pics this weekend if everyone promises to give suggestions of locations and cultivars, lol.

Its dark in the morning when I leave and dark when I arrive...pretty depressing.

I want to do this right...I made a mistake at my last house by NOT starting with the core conifers.

I'm actually pretty siked that you folks can help point me in the right direction!

I've spent the last 5 years researching and gardening with decidious trees and shrubs...I've litterally planted 0 conifers, well I guess I planted that one dwarf mugo pine.

Can you help narrow it down...or maybe I'm set?

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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Can you help narrow it down...or maybe I'm set?

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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