Mike,

We posted at the same time.
Canada? Pastor?

Hmmm.......

He needs to send the lilies and the refund to make up for my aggravation. Remind him how verbal I am.

And I believe after this disaster, YOU should put your thinking cap on and see what can be done to ward off future aggravations of this type, or any type. Buying daylilies should make us happy, not aggravated or miserable.

Perhaps your high end or volume buyers could put up a deposit or bond to be used when the buyer does not receive what she ordered. I'm sure you could come up with something.

Canada.

Hmmph.

Nancy, my feeling is that buying or bidding solely on the basis of a single photo is not wise. Better to try to find other photos for comparison. If you do buy because a photo wowed you, IMHO you should at least be prepared for the possibility that what you receive or how something looks in your garden will not look like its photo.

That said, I have just seen a daylily on the auction that I've fallen for based on the photo. I have not been able to find anything online to use for comparison. I am (naturally lol) seriously contemplating throwing caution to the winds and bidding on this plant. But if the color is less intense or if some other aspect of the flower differs from what I'm expecting, I'll be disappointed, but I shouldn't place blame on the seller for that....

Why? Because it's not like I was prevented from or lacked the opportunity to research this plant.

BTW, I think your plant is indeed SAPPHIRE SKIES, probably a SS settling in and trying to get used to its new home. :) Of course, I've never seen SS in the flesh, so that's only my opinion - which perhaps ain't worth much. :)))

Hi again,

Gavin here just to say that it looks like Sapphire Skies. The problem with daylilies is their color and form can vary with location and soil conditions as well as how long they have been established. Just like it takes several blooms for most doubles to double, it takes a certain amount of time for most daylilies to reach their best. Pictures can only say so much, and it can work both ways. Gavin Petit looks much much better in person than on the computer (of course I may be biased ;)). In any case I completely support taking a look at as many pictures as you can find so as to have a good feel as to what the plant will look like in your garden. Bare in mind, the plants can, and usually do, look like the pictures from whomever took it but the way they take care of their plants might be different in how you may take care of them.

I really hope the issue with Marvin is resolved in your favor. I personally would hope you receive your plants with a refund and maybe some bonuses. I have dealt with Marvin as a buyer and he was just fine but I can not speak for him as a seller and it seems that he has really messed up your order. I wish you the best. We sellers are nothing without our customers and I enjoy the relationships I create with my buyers. Good luck and take care.

Best wishes,
Gavin

Gavin

I wish I had ordered from you.

The problem here is that apparently Marvin has more business that he can handle in a timely manner. So far I have not heard tell of anyone demanding more than their refund or lilies. This gives him, or anyone in his position, zero incentive to do right next time.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder at him sending my refund up North. After all, the reason I demanded a refund is that it is too hot to plant (if I got lilies at this point they would have to be potted up inside) so how could he think I hailed from cold-weather-land?

Whatever happens, I will remain the (loud) voice of reason here, that people should check out sellers before they send their hard earned money for plants that may never arrive :(

Thanks, Gavin, for the input. You would know, if anyone did, if this could be the real Sapphire Skies.

The only research available on-line about this cultivar was at Le Petit Jardin, your family's website. (I can't find much information about it on-line.) That's where I first saw this cultivar.

Based on the description at Le Petit Jardin about the color, I believed that this was exactly what I needed to enhance my "red" collection. I did expect the one I received to be red and ruffled, at least in the morning, rather than a rose color. Why would I pay a premium price for anything less?

With the information you have provided, I will let this one go by. I do expect Marvin to send me Strawberry Lightning,
which I purchased from him last fall.

I can understand the mixup, as we humans do make unintentional mistakes. I do not understand why Lucille allegedly has not been reimbursed by now, why the seller allegedly would not communicate with her, or why he did not reply to my two e-mails.

I definitely do not comprehend why he again has not contacted me, once the Lily Auction folks got in touch with him about this matter. It takes 30 seconds to open an e-mail, hit the reply button, and type "I'm sorry. I'll replace your daylily shortly." Best regards, (name)

Nancy

Lucille:
I really think that no matter what anyone does, the unscrupulous person will find a way to circumvent the rule. I just bought some equipment on ebay....what I got was not what I ordered.....jumping through all of ebay's hoops to get satisfaction, is no fun either. We just have to be more careful who we buy from.

All we really can do is keep after the seller to make good, and block the rogue seller from further selling. MaryAnn has been working on these issues all along and he has been blocked from selling on the Lily Auction.

Lucille, you have options, You paid with paypal and you can file a complaint with them filed a complaint with paypal? If you paid by check, you can file a mail fraud complaint with the federal government online: http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx

You can also call the police department in his town and file a complaint with them.

However, I think that your refund is coming. It better be coming, and to the correct address, this time! Please let us know if you don't get it next week. I cannot require Marvin to do anything except to make good on his orders or refund you if he can't provide the order. If he wants to give you plants for free to make up, that is up to him. He should, at the very least, send you a written apology with his refund.

If there is anyone else who is still not getting their problem with Marvin worked out, please be sure to contact me or MaryAnn. We are committed to help you as best we can.

I've followed this story from the beginning with great interest. I've purchased maybe $2000 in plants about $800 in seeds in the last 3 years on the LA. This is a fortune to me! I'm just now beginning to see the fruits of my purchases of the seeds. I would say that atleast 95% have been the seeds that I purchased and I think that is amazing. I'm surprised that someone "some dishonest one" hasn't sold seeds as high priced hybrids when they were really low cost seeds. It has taken me 3 years to see the first blooms on some of these plants. Thats a long time. I want to personally thank everyone that I've purchased from for their honesty and integrity(sp?).

I've only had 2 or 3 plants to be mislabeled and they were very inexpensive plants that I just let go.

I have one that died that I must soon send notice to the seller of its untimely death. I'm sure this person will handle this properly. I got encouragement here to notify the seller and for all of you that responded thank you so much.

I have great expectations to one day sell more seeds, I sold a few last year at very cheap prices just to get my feet wet.

I even hope to sell some seedlings and some of my named plants that I no longer need.

I'm learning from this post. But, I still have doubts about selling in the fall for Spring delivery. This is the best time for growers to sell and to ship in the Spring is always the best and easiest on the plants. I'm thinking that I will put all my income into a paypal account and not spend any of it until I know for sure that the plants I sold in the Fall, are still alive and growing good in the Spring. I watched my plants carefully this Spring. My plants in my Zone 7 garden were only mid size this year by April 1st, which seems to be a prime shipping time. By May 1st they had doubled in size, some even more than doubled. So will buyers be happy with mid size plants in April??? I admit that I did not bid on some good plants last fall because they couldn't deliver until mid May and I wanted my plants in my garden in March, not April, so they would settle in before bloom time.

I am small, very small compared to some of the huge dealers. For me selling maybe 50 orders would be huge for me to get out in one month. I think as a grower we must gauge just how much we can do in just a month to 6 weeks of prime shipping time. What happens if I get sick or someone in my family gets sick and I have to abandon my daylilies for my family. There is just me. I guess this is another issue that I must consider and prepare for.

All of this and not a plant has been dug, divided, labeled, dipped, wrapped, boxed or shipped. Count in time for emails for all sales and keeping up with multiple sales to one person and keeping of track of ship dates. This is getting mind boggling to this old brain.

I guess it all comes down to planning and more planning and record keeping that just might impress WalMart! And again, all of this for ONE person. I'm thinking some more about this before I jump in with all four feet, oooops, I only have two!

Someone should write a book and give detailed instructions of a practical way to accomplish all fo this.

Now, with all of this. I can not imagine taking someones money without providing the proper plants. No words minced, this is stealing out and out. I pray that you are sent your money and your plants and by far, an apology.

I know that some of you have some great systems. Please share. If they are too detailed, email me. I'd love to hear your ways.

Blessings to all, Mona

Mike

MANY of those purchasing and paying for lilies on your auction with Paypal are not eligible to file for help with Paypal. This is because many people buy for future delivery, in fall for spring, but the Paypal timeline mandates that a complaint be filed within 45 days from payment.

Whatever Marvin chooses to do now, the damage has been done to me. What I can and will do is keep telling people to use caution because their options for help are limited if the seller does not do what he should.

The other options you listed (the Paypal option will not be available to most for the reasons set out) involve time and aggravation, and realistically most of them will not bring the daylilies one orders into one's garden, and for sure not the season or even the year one orders them in.

I will be on this and other forums, cautioning people that they need to know their seller's rep. I can and will repeat my experiences in order to help others with their quest for consumers safety, and with their quest to have a safer way to buy daylilies.

Mona,
From your description, I can see how many steps are involved trying to be a good seller of daylilies.
You said "Someone should write a book and give detailed instructions on a practical way to accomplish all this".

I suggested to Mike that he open a hidden Seller's Forum on his auction so that sellers could give each othe tips and techniques on how to get it all done, and for the more experienced sellers to help the newer ones. I think it is a great idea, but so far I haven't heard back.

Where consumer safety is involved, I am an advocate and I am loud. I will be talking about this experience for a long long time, so that future lily buyers can have a better experience than I did.

I believe things happen for a reason; and perhaps this experience befell me so that I could use my considerable verbal ability to help those who in the past, just lurked and wondered how to deal with misfortunes like mine.

I cannot give the daylily community expert advice on growing because I can see that there are those much more experienced than me that share their expertise and help others with questions about gardening.

But I can and will advocate for those who don't even get their daylilies.
I was willing to take my experience to the attorney general, and even considered writing an article for some newszines (I do write freelance from time to time).

When disaster befalls, I believe buyer and seller should communicate and work it out and I think that many unplanned glitches can be solved that way.

But for those who choose not to live up to their responsibilities, and not to communicate: I'm here, I'm loud, and I'm not going away.

Mona,

Quickbooks and Excel...those are the two best ways to book keep. Quickbooks holds all customer information and detailed receipts. I use Excel with 5 pages. Page 1: Map (Map of where all the plants are in the garden), Page 2: Inventory, Page 3: Collections, Page 4: Shipping, Page 5: International orders.

On page 2: Inventory I have 10 columns in this order: Name, Amount, Color, Edge (yes or no and if it's a gold edge), Eye, Pattern, Double, Year, Hybridizer, Price. This allows me to sort a column in any category to make an easy collection or decide how much I want for buy it now ect... You can create other columns as well of course.

On page 3: Collections I have 11 columns as follows: Date and items won, Winner (LA nickname), Name, Amount, Paid (yes or no), Gift, Location, Shipped (yes or no), E-mail, Item #, Notes.

The Date/Items won column has the name of the particular post (ie: Gary Colby, Petit Red Collection). If it's a collection I "insert comment" in the cell and post the names of the plants in the comment. This is similar to how the Name column works. I place the persons Name and address as a comment in the cell. The Amount is how much they won the auction for. Location tells me when I should ship basically, I only place the name of the state unless it's international. Notes allow me to add comments again such as desired ship dates ect...

Shipping is just the orders I intend to ship each week. I simply copy and paste what hasn't been shipped and needs to be. The international orders go on their own page.

This has worked so much better for me once I set it all up. I used to use index cards and that was a mess. This is much cleaner and easier to keep track of. Quickbooks allows you to create receipts and keeps the records of sales by customer as well. It's nice but for something smaller, Excel is just so easy.

One quick note. To enter a comment, right click on a cell and highlight "insert comment". That way when you place your cursor over the cell a little box pops up with what you entered.

Before I ship I print out into a word document my shipping list for the week so I can create tags and have a check list for when I'm placing them in the box.

Let me know if that helps and you can e-mail me @ Blur11884@aol.com if you have any questions.

Gavin

lucille and others, I hope you share your comments over at the Rate & Review Vendors forum too. I always go there and Daves Garden Watchdog first before I order from anywhere.

Sharon

Here is a link that might be useful: Rate & Review Vendors

I did not realize there were those two places, and I will certainly recount this story in colorful detail in both. The details about Canada (my lilies were allegedly being shipped to Canada via Maine while I sit here sweating in Texas) and the bit about the vendor's status as a pastor will help make the reviews read like a popular novel so folks will remember, and be careful.

Hello Folks:
I do understand that Paypal has a time limit after which they will not honor disputes. The Lily Auction has no such time limits. We will always do what is reasonable to help our members.

What can be done about selling in the Fall for Spring delivery. Should we only allow proven sellers to do that. This is an important question. In 99% of the cases it has worked out very well. Mistakes have happened but not very often. The big problem that I see is that sometimes plants die over the winter, as was the case this year with the flash freezes in the south. Almost always, in such a case, our sellers have immediately refunded their buyers. The concern the Lily Auction has is that all such sellers have the means to refund the buyer should any plants die. This is mandatory and we will always work with our members....no time limit here.

As far as setting up a forum on the Lily Auction, I see no need: 1) there are many other forums that people are already using and 2) we are always willing to answer any questions our members have.....and we have a form ("support/questions" link at the bottom of the LA pages)for submitting questions to us. 3) I will be adding some requirements and rules about selling in the fall for spring delivery, 4) we already have many helpful hints for sellers and buyers in our "help" section which will be updated again very soon.

I talked with Dave's Garden Forum last year and we though about putting a Lily Auction section there....maybe that discussion should start again.

Marvin said that he sent you a check for $91 and an apology. I believe him and please let us know when you get the refund. Mistakes happen and plants sometimes die, but, again, the Lily Auction will ALWAYS work with our buyers and sellers to resolve any problem like this, as fast as possible.

Also, Marvin tells me that he really isn't selling on ebay anymore. He states that has an old store on ebay that he just hasn't had time to remove yet. Whatever, he states that he is committed to resolve all the disputes. It seems like he is trying very hard to do so. I really don't understand why he isn't communicating directly with his customers, would save us a lot of time and energy. But at least he is doing so through us. He stated today that he is taking responsibility and that he will try to get on this forum.

Mike,

If you knew that Paypal had a time limit why would you post it as a remedy for me the way you did in your post here on June 12, above?
At least Paypal does not publicly share the financial details of customer transactions the way you just did.

You know...enough is enough....All I can say after reading this all again. I can also say I am sure glad I don't have customers like you Lucille. You made your point...LONG ago! Yet you just continue slamming anyone and everyone...even those who have even gone out of their way to try and help you resolve YOUR problem. If you don't want your tansactions/information shared....why do you continue bringing up YOUR problem??? YOU have no problem sharing Marvin's transactions...do you? I think you are just babbling on now and not serving any purpose or help... to other's as you say you want to do. Yes, I to am intitled to voice my Opinon too. Enough is enough...solve your problem yourself with Marvin and don't worry about being some "Consumer Protector" for the rest of us (At Least Me)...PLEASE. I think most folks have enough sense to know you are taking a chance when you order in Fall to get in Spring..thats why they buy..to Save a Buck...no other reason...to save that buck you sometimes may have to take a chance....that is the same with anything else in life...
Yes, I am the first to say communication and a complete and honest sell's transaction is Important for BOTH the buyer and seller. We also as Buyer's need to do our homework....just like we would for any other "Purchase". You don't go buying a new washer and dryer because it has a Purdy Picture in the catalog...do you? You don't go to the grocery store and just grab a head of lettuce...do you? You don't just grab a peach..do you? NO, you check out those perishable items and you buy them from a place/person you trust. As with anything else...there are always problems...always will be...such is Life.....
Let's get on with it....:) It's too short for all this crap.

Rick

"What can be done about selling in the Fall for Spring delivery. Should we only allow proven sellers to do that."

No. (1) Selling in the fall/delivering in the spring is a different issue entirely than than of "bad" sellers. (2) All but the most naive bidders surely understand the risks inherent in buying live plant material months ahead of time. (3) If anyone has any concerns about the time gap, then simply wait for the many, many spring sellers to begin listing their auctions. (4) It penalizes (bad word....how about limits?)....it limits the bidding choices available to bidders who are happy to take on the risk of buying live plants months ahead of time. (5) Very similar to #4, it makes it difficult for people to shop early (6) It may place undue influence on the buying/shipping/planting situation of northern daylily people vs southern ones, some (many? all???) of whom can grow virtually year around, or at for many months of the year, (7) It would be a business practice based on worst case/least common events/less common events. What would be analogous? How about, because, rarely, planes crash, no planes should be allowed to fly?

"I talked with Dave's Garden Forum last year and we though about putting a Lily Auction section there....maybe that discussion should start again."

I don't know how such a section would work, but I can tell you that I joined Dave's Garden Forum only to find that the only forums in which I was interested required a paid subscription. I've never visited the web site, nor does it interest me any longer. I certainly would not want to be required to pay for an auction....but perhaps you're thinking of something else entirely. In which case, ignore the above. :)))

"Marvin said that he sent you a check for $91 and an apology. I believe him and please let us know when you get the refund. Mistakes happen"

Oh absolutely mistakes happen. I ordered a plant (can't recall whether it was an auction win; too long ago) that the seller swore left his/her post office. Never arrived at mine. Given the cost of this plant, I asked the post office to investigate and yes, it appeared that the plant MIGHT indeed have been mailed. Or maybe not. Who knows. I was given my $ back, no questions asked by the seller, but, like Lucille, I was out the plant. Very disappointing.

But my disappointment did not lead me to criticize the seller because boy oh boy do post office mistakes happen. My fav story: last year, box after box would arrive here every day. One day, 4 boxes arrived. All delivered by the same mail carrier. So why, on the same day, did she drop off a large box from Floyd Cove, clearly marked in big, black letters with my name and my address, at an address many blocks away? !!! Imagine my reaction when a complete stranger arrived at my door with this box. Suppose she and her family had been on a long vacation?

I see Rick. You are saying that because I stood up for myself, my personal financial details are fair game. I disagree. I have received enough emails from others with problems that I think it is time to stand up if you have been wronged.
I will certainly avail myself of the two forums mentioned.
Sorry Rick, I will not sweep this under the carpet. Don't like it? Don't read it. But I have many emails of people that suddenly started sharing what happened to them and before now, they have said nothing. They have a right to good transactions also, and your willingness to dismiss them is telling.

To those of you that are critical of Lucille; if you have never been through the aggravation of dealing with the seller in question you just don't have a clue. He repeatedly ignores emails, repeatedly makes promises and doesn't deliver, and tells you that he shipped your plants and you don't get them. I don't care if you spent $10 or $1000 that doesn't matter!! I would never have bought from this person if I knew how he operates beforehand. I do think Lucille is doing the right thing by letting other unsuspecting buyers know. Maybe it will save someone else the hassle, time, and aggravation. How is Lucille supposed to "solve her problems" she has no recourse her money is gone and she is left waiting for the seller to "graciously" refund her money months after he was supposed to send the plants. And just so you know, he made sure that I knew he was a "pastor" in 2006.

So then what Feedback did you leave about the seller Daylily 96? Did you leave negative feedback...back in 2006? If so..then you did your part to inform other's of this seller's practices....right? And if other's have had this terrible experience...did they leave negative feedback also? If everyone did that...that had these terrible experiences...then why would someone like Lucille come along two seasons later and bid/buy his/her plants??? It makes no sense.....I said from the beginning I thought that Lucille had a very valid point and that her sitiuation seemed to be a real problem. BUT....I also said she made her point many times over...on BOTH threads. Let me ask this...of you and other's...do you make this much to do about someone treating you awesome...sending bonus/gift plants...going out of there way to please you on things like specific ship dates....extra fans and packaged beautifully?? Do you get on here and rant and rave about what a wonderful experience you had with such a seller??? Or do you just leave a feedback that says A+++ , thanks for the big daylilies.....or some such generic statement??? Daylily96....I think you are missing my point....I totally agree that Lucille got a raw deal...but the going on and on about it...well that dosen't show me much.....
Do any of you get on here and say things like wow I was late 4 days paying my seller...but he/she still sent me extra fans or a nice bonus/gift daylily?? Or Gee the seller's auction states will not ship to certain states...but yet you still bid on and win his/her plants...knowing they can't ship to you....yup you just wasted the seller's time/auction fees and so on....
Or a real favorite of mine from last year....I bought such and such daylily from you in March...your auction clearly states you will start shipping in May...weather permitting. Now you as a seller have a 100% feedback rating with over 650 happy customer feedbacks....yet at 40 days after auction close the Buyer says I want my daylily now or I am going thru PayPal and getting my money back...."I had a bad experience with another seller and I am afraid you will screw me over too." So either send it now or I am getting my money back theu PayPal. I said very nicely...I am NOT that other seller and If you don't think you will get your Daylily...then why did you buy it?...I said I have never gotten a negative feedback or even a neutral comment...I am going to follow thru with my part of the deal(Auction) and I expect her too also. Long story short....Person went thru Paypal...and I gave the money back. Did I get screwed over??? Yes...did I whine about it or say anything other then to the person...NO....I said to her..Don't ever bid on any of my auctions again. Now you want the laugh...this same person got banned...came back this Spring as a different person and even tried to buy the Same daylily from me again......
My point being Daylily 96...I think I know how Lucille feels and what these things are like...But I don't need to hear about it every 10 minutes....get real!
Life goes on.....enjoy it...it's too short for crying in your beer.

Rick

Rick

There are hundreds of pages and tens of thousands of posts on this site. Don't want to see mine? Move along.

If you want to talk smack, that just shows the kind of person you are. But, go ahead, be my guest.

I plan to talk about this experience for years, or until I make a measurable dent in the harm caused by situations like this. I am hearing from more people, and the problem is more pervasive than I had at first thought.

The lack of communication is what really gets me. I've yet to hear from Marvin recently, and have not yet received my refund.

Other vendors have pointed out that they have had difficult years; and I commisserate, I know that happens, and if buyer and seller work together an agreement usually is in the making. That didn't happen here.

So, because of the LA business lapse in divulging my financial details, the purchase amount, everyone now knows it was $91. You know what? Those are the most expensive daylilies Marvin will have ever sold, because he is going to get years of reviews from me in return.

Rick, you can either steer clear of these threads, skip over and not read the parts you don't want to read, or get into it with me.

NOTHING will stop me from being an advocate for not only myself, but the others who are writing to tell me their stories.

Very funny story, Rick...concerning that banned buyer...lol. Maybe the only way to protect yourself from this person in the future is to ban that particular daylily:)

Have we all been "screwed over" at one time or another...you bet! Do we handle every situation the same every time...not hardly, at least in my case.

I get madder at a "friend" setting me up for a bad trade than I ever have over a bad purchased plant....but that's just me.

Lucille, not that it matters what I think about your situation, and I offered my insight in part #1 of this saga...I do admire your determination. My guess that as soon as you left negative feedback, you went to the very bottom of this seller's list, and I think your stating your case here might motivate said seller into finally coming through for you.

Personally, I think that instead of chastising Mike for his help, it would be nicer to thank him for his interest. I don't think your posting here played into Mike getting more involved, because I think he would have tried to help you either way...but it certainly may help you in motivating this seller to finally get off the pot.

Steve

Rick, I think you are just babbling on now and not serving any purpose or help!

Lucille, I feel for you and I sure hope you get your money back. I applaud you for speaking up and not letting it go. Buyers need to know the truth!

And Marvin if youre reading (most likely are) give Lucille a phone call, if youre really a Pastor you would have some morals!

Sharon

I personally don't like this ability to cancel a contract because the plant has died or some other reason the plant cannot be supplied. Once you allow one side to arbitrarily change the contract, then it is no longer a fair contract. Once you allow someone with 3000 auctions to cancel contracts, then you are discriminating against those sellers with only 2999 auctions.

Maybe adding a condition(s) that the buyer could change or cancel the contract before the plant ships would make it fair. Such as the price of gasoline has risen or an unexpected illness in the family maybe. These would be grounds for the buyer to cancel the contract and get their money back. Of course, someone independent would have to hold the money to be sure it was available to send back. Can't trust those guys with less than 3000 auctions.

Or how about this? If the seller cannot ship the plant they have put on auction, they have to supply a plant of similar type and value, acceptable to the buyer or be banned from further selling on the auction. Applies to every one equally.

Nah.

Max, If you had bothered to read my first post you would have noticed that the time limit had passed for leaving feedback on ebay. I ordered in the fall for late March delivery. When I ordered the seller had 100% good feedback. Would I have left bad feedback if I could, You betcha. And as for feedback for good sellers I always leave good feedback and I communicate with the seller my appreciation. I do not post on this forum very much but because my experience with this seller is basically the same as Lucille's then I felt it was time to tell "my story" in hopes of keeping some other rookie from making the same mistake. On other forums I make a point of letting people about good sellers. And as for being late with payment or being hard to deal with I try to treat the sellers the way that I would like to be treated. Check my feedback on LA and Ebay(userid rhodjea). The point is that this seller has way overstepped the boundaries of what is right and he has done it more than one time. If you don't want to hear about it, stop reading this thread. Others may be interested.

Xokientx, I applaud you for coming up with workable solutions. To help you, every state except Louisiana has adopted the Uniform Commercial Code and Article 2 governs sales. It pretty much spells out what happens when various disasters befall after a contract is made. Not so surprisingly, one you will see is the need for the seller to seasonably notify the buyer.
We are all governed by it unless we live in Louisiana and it is kind of interesting, a good read if you have time.

Daylily96,

Thank you for stepping up and telling your story. I get the feeling some would like all this hushed but it is more pervasive than I thought. Yet another reader emailed me today to tell her story.

As a group we may never recover our losses, but as a daylily community we can do a service to those who come after us and warn them by relating our experiences and then letting them make their choices in a more informed way.

Lucille you do as you please...as I said I stated my opinon...which I am entitled to. Yes, I think you are hot air and just blowing smoke now to blow it. I don't need to "Get into it with you" You wouldn't last long enough for a second round...LOL Just for my own info.....have you added to any other thread on this forum....other then this one and the one you started...with you problem???? Like I said...it started out right...now you are just hot air...and wasted space. MOP.....I shall leave you to babble on and whine......Your space here is no longer worth reading to me....Bye Bye....enjoy your agony.
Rick

Lucille and Mike (and others)

I would be more than happy to start a Yahoo Group for LA Buyers and Sellers (Positive and Negative). Please contact me if this is ok with you Mike. (Pamperdchefcarla@aol.com) is my email addy registered w/ the LA.

I'd be more than happy to own this group and or Moderate it. Mike if you want to be in control of this group, I could add you as a Moderator also.

Let me know. I think this would be a great tool for us LA buyers. Mike maybe you could link this on the LA and direct concerned bidders/sellers there before bidding and selling.

CarlaMarie,

I think that is an excellent and forward looking idea. I appreciate your positive efforts in offering to head it up and start it. I would definitely contribute, I've already said good things about the first vendor I purchased from, but a group like this would allow us all to expand on our experiences both positive and negative, and thereby make the daylily community more informed and better.Thank you.

More dysfunction I see. I meant that paypal is an option in all cases, at least for the first 30 days. And I wanted to point that out for education purposes because Lucille and I are not the only ones talking here. But again there is a limit of 30 days. The Lily Auction will help you even next year if necessary.

Lucille, I think Rick has a point. Enough. Please get that I am only trying to help you get your refund as fast as possible, the same help you would have gotten without all this "loudness". This whole matter is public isn't it? I don't know, it seems to me that a little kindness when mistakes happen, would make things more fun for all of us and would be a nicer medium to learn from. In reality, we have no idea what is going on in Marvin's life. All we really know is that he is currently overwhelmed, has made mistakes and has gotten behind.

I am not making excuses for Marvin, I doubt that he will ever sell again on the Lily Auction after all this. And I really won't allow him to anyway. His mistakes were too many. The question to ask ourselves is, are we assuming that he has done all this on purpose. I really don't think that is the case and I feel very confident that he will resolve all his mistakes.

Folks, how much do we need to beat a dead horse. If we want to make a dispute public, then the public deserves to get ALL the facts, including the amount of money we are talking about. If you make a dispute public, then all the facts will be made public. However, by using the Lily Auction dispute services, you will get the same results without making it public. There is a time for both, absolutely. Your decision.

Lucille will get her refund as promised right from the beginning. There is no question about this being the correct thing. But I wonder if it will be enough. Regardless, it is all that I can help her with in this case. I have a lot to do in my daily life. So, once the refund is made, my work is done for Lucille and I am on to 'greener pastures'.

Carla, thanks for your offer, please contact me privately and lets work something out about this Lily Auction Buyer/Seller Forum. There are lot of things that could be discussed. I think the idea is great.

Folks I hope that you have all gotten some answers to you questions in this thread. Sorry it became a little dysfunctional. Enough IS enough. Moving on...........

Aloha from Hawaii,
Mike

I do not see it as dysfunctional to help people that have spent money and had problems with delivery, and no communication with their seller.
I'm hearing stories about Marvin from some time ago, and the same lack of communication and disregard for letting his customers know what was going on, and promises of shipments not kept, time after time.

And I still have questions about my shipment, about the person who received my plants and refund, but that whole deal was sort of strange from the getgo.

If you will recall, I was told that my plants were shipped to Maine because someone there was accepting them for Canadian buyers.
Apparently plants going to Canada need some sort of certificate. I'm thinking that sending plants to Maine for Canadian buyers doesn't make any sense.
I am contacting the Maine Department of Agriculture to see if there is some reason that plants stop off there rather than going directly through to Canada.

There is a pervasive problem going on, not just with my purchase but with many and they are contacting me. I plan to go to other sites also, so that people are aware and can make informed choices.

The problem hasn't been solved. I understand there is only so much the Daylily Auction can do, but the fact is, some people are ordering daylilies and then having problems receiving them.

Knowledge is power, and informed consumers make better choices. If I had known of the ongoing problem with this seller I would not have sent him my money. It is time, time to try to inform buyers so that they CAN make better choices.
The buyer/seller forum is a good start, but keeping buyers safe means keeping them informed there, here, and in all of the places they may go for information before sending their money in to a seller. Writing out a check to a seller should bring the happiness of a box of daylilies, not the misery of broken promises, delayed shipments, and empty gardens.

I think the reason that the plants get stopped in Maine and then are sent to Canada is because you have to have a phyto certificate and get clearance before plants, fruits and veggies can enter Canada to prevent the spread of unwanted pests and diseases. Probably wherever it is being shipped to into Canada, Maine was the more logical choice to have the plants dropped off and checked before being brought into the country. Whenever shipping these things into any country, it has to have papers and be inspected before shipped into the country, or even quarantined. I've crossed into Canada several times through Detroit, Port Huron and Buffalo, making deliveries basically car parts, but had to have documentation and be checked and cleared before entering Canada. Anyway, I just wanted to state that, so you know why the plants have to stop in Maine before being sent into Canada.

Karen

Ok now I'm getting annoyed. What does plants going into Maine have anything to do with you not receiving your plants and or refund? Lucille, you need to let other peoples business alone. It has nothing to do with you, except that you package was mailed there. Will you be shipping plants to Canada out of Maine? If you are, then get the information you need.

Everyone here is trying to help you out, including myself and you just seem to add fuel to another fire. Maine has nothing to do with you. Leave it alone. If it was something illegal, then by all means, but it's not.

If your bored and have nothing to do, then maybe you should find another hobby to pass the time.

Mike Longo has been trying to help you, but one way or another you find something else to argue with him. Maybe everyone isnt as educated or knowledgeable as you, so maybe they don't have the proper choice of words, but good grief, cut the man some slack.

Maryanne and Mike both helped me with my situation. I received my refund and will be cashing the check on Monday. Give the man a chance to refund your money.

Mike I see only one problem w/ Fall selling and Spring Shipments.

Lets say someone sold a plant extremely cheap in the fall. Whats to stop this seller from saying the plant is dead in the spring, because he has someone who is willing to pay more for it?? Or maybe he just wasn't happy w/ the price that it sold for and would rather keep it and eat the fees from the LA?

I bring this up because a friend of mine was bidding on a daylily on ebay....Seems the day before the auction was to end, nobody else bid on it but my friend. The auction ended early and they wouldn't agree on her bid price. That is just wrong. To me this seller was unhappy w/ the bids, so he ended it. He then listed the item again and at a much higher price (Buy It Now). This just annoys me.

Yes we all want to make some extra cash or make enough to pay for our addictions, but some people really make me wonder.

I had a buyer on the LA last year. I noticed that he/she relisted the auctions that he/she won from me. This seller started getting negatives b/c they received dried up plants. Well no wonder, because it took 2-4 days for him/her to get them from me (as well as several others he/she bought from on the LA)..then however long it took the buyers to get them from this person. I saw this going on for weeks, but who am I to say what he/she does w/ their plants? At first I figured they had the plants and were just buying more. I soon realized that wasn't the case. This seller is no longer on the LA w/ that id, but I don't know if they created another id.

Anyway, good luck to those who are waiting on plants or refunds from Marvin. I'm 100% positive he'll come through for you and if a few days go by, email Support again. Marvin came through for me, thanks to Mike and Maryanne. Thank you guys.

The reason I am asking about whether there is a particular draw for Maine is that I am wondering why my package was not returned. Is it in Maine? Is it in Canada? Who knows.

Carlamarie, it sounds like you are happy with everything. I think that is so wonderful and I am happy for you. Things are going to be just fine.
I am certainly looking forward to my refund and I'm sure it is right around the corner, a minister would definitely have a refund in the mail if he said he would.

However, for me, the damage is done. I will carry an accounting of what has happened to other places, and others can then choose what they would like to do. Together, armed with the facts, each of us, including you, me, others, the LA, can make decisions that are based on knowledge.

The mail lady came to my home just now after the post office closing hours (I live in a fairly small town) to deliver Marvin's letter. In it were the refund and a note.

I will include that fact when I relate all that has happened here at other sites and to other people. I plan to give an accounting and will include *everything* so that people can choose, as I have said before, based on knowledge.

Now I find this to be interesting......I had just come in from dropping 2 very large trees. Was inside for about 10 minutes and a major thunderstorm came roaring through. I find what happened... to fit right in line with this thread. A very large branch blew down from another large tree. It fell and landed right on a very nice and large pot of Shores Of Time (5 fans). This branch smashed 4 of the 5 fans and broke off 3 scapes. I guess I should email the Lord and ask for a refund and/or a replacement.....hmmmm I wonder if he dosen't e-mail me back or communicate with me in some other way, what should I do????? Hmmmm I know.....I'll contact Mike at the LA and see if he can fix it for me......LOL
Actually the story is true...darn storm.....just goes to show you....anything can happen and will. But, no matter....life goes on...some of it will grow back and maybe bloom some other time.....If not I shall come back here and to other forums and spread the Facts...based on Knowledge....LOL.
Oh hey Lucille.....question for you.....are you related to Simplton?? Just curious??? ;)
I hope my loss is something that even though upsetting be kept in perspective..... It sure dose not even hold a candle to the terrible loss and destruction those poor folks out in Iowa and other parts of the mid-west are going through. It does kinda put things in perspective.....sure made me just think... yea Rick your Daylily got hammered and yes you got upset....but on the scale of things that really matter....well my problem does not even rate on the scale. Life goes on and is too short to get so upset over the little things in life......

Rick

Lucille,

I'm happy that you got your refund. Persistence really paid off for you. It's such a shame that it had to go that far.

It is sad to see that one or two people here at GW felt compelled to attack you for standing up for what you believed was fair, right and just. It seems to be the modus operendii for some who think you haven't the right to ever say anything at this forum that may be critical, albeit truthful, about dilatory daylily vendors.

I still haven't received a refund from Marvin Wilkins for the plant I did not receive.

Nancy

facts, fairness, knowledge...

All very important things in our life here on earth.

So is having somebody dead to rights and letting them go.

Mercy

Or even better yet...

Having somebody dead to rights, and not only letting them go, but letting them go with your blessing?

Grace

Which method is likely to have the greatest impact on Marvin's life...justice served or grace given?

Which is the best story to tell?

That a man made a mistake, and paid for it the rest of his days? That you were disappointed and spent the rest of your days recounting the story? Or that a man was forgiven, and given a blessing to restore his reputation?

I am truly pleased you received your refund and note Lucille. The choice is yours...as it is with all of us everyday. What kind of story is MOST important to tell in the overall scheme of us being here on this planet? Facts and justice...or forgiveness and grace? Which story is more likely to lift us all up?

Steve

Most people have been honest and forthright in buying and selling their little aesthetic beauties. Others hem (pun intended) and haw, don't communicate, withhold payments. Thanks, lucille, for fighting this battle. It makes everyone realize they must treat others fairly. You fulfilled your part of the deal.

Yes, grace and forgiveness are important, but also accountability, responsibility, respect and the basic ability to fulfill one's promises in a timely fashion.

I don't like seeing dishonest, manipulative people not held up to basic contract standards.

So, thanks for pursuing this. It seems he only followed through because he was forced to, not out of an authentic acknowledgment of failure, which is the starting point of grace. Yes, grace and forgiveness, as Steve says, but also accountability in this world.

It's so easy to send another person an email or to return a check. Let's remember that the spiritual teaching on forgiveness is not an invitation to forgettfulness. Fool me once.........

Beautifully put Steve.

Great you got your refund! Now for everyone else to get theres.

I wasn't trying to put anyone down Nancy or attack anyone. Everyone knew what was going on with several of us and it just kept going and going and going. Instead, maybe come back and say I didn't get my refund today or I contacted Mike today or whatever. But to keep harping on the same people and everyone "attacking" each other. We all know there is a problem w/ Marvin and that's all we need to know. There is only so much that Mike Longo can do to help. Emails or phone calls, but what more can anyone expect?

I'm still up in the air about what kind of feedback to leave.

I don't care if he's a pastor. He's still human and things do happen. We dont know Marvins situation, but with several of us saying we received refunds or the others saying they received their plants, that should have been enough for this subject to be dropped unless we were just posting updates. To go on and on and on is not how you solve problems.

I'm still willing to run a Feedback Group for the Lily Auction. Just waiting for Mike to get back to me with his thoughts.

Lets change this subject now and think positive!

If anyone has any ideas on how I should organize this Group, please email me at CarlaMSitze@aol.com.

There are several folders that can be created. I'm not sure how many, but I was thinking about doing a folder for each letter in the Alphabet. This way it's easier to look up an id. Any other suggestions will be welcomed.

I won't be adding names to this. Each memeber will have the ability to add information themselves.

To keep out the unwanted, I'm wondering if we can do this ONLY if your a Lily Auction member. This way we'll keep Simpleton out and all the other unwanteds.

Carlamarie - Please be assured I wasn't referring to anything you said, not at all.

Just a reminder to all: I did not create either one of these Lily Auction threads. I had no intention of "going public." I haven't a thing against the Lily Auction at all.

I never received a reply to the two e-mails I sent to Marvin. When I read here that others were having difficulties with this seller, only then did I even contact the Lily Auction. I feel that I gave this man ample opportunity to reply to me, and I have allowed sufficient time for him to reply to me, and to send me a refund or the correct cultivar. Seventeen days have gone by since the first Lily Auction thread on this subject began, and surely by now I should have received at least a response from him.

Yes, this post has gotten way too long again, like the first one. It drags on and on. It would end by attrition if Marvin would do what is right by all his aggrieved customers. Oddly enough, it seems to be the most popular post here at the moment. Those of you who are tired of hearing all of these complaints might want to just skip this thread. I don't blame you, I'd move on, too, except being different from the rest of you, I remain a slighted customer. I plan to hang around awhile longer until I get some satisfaction or until I get tired and move on, too. Maybe I'll be the only one left to grumble, but that's O.K., too.

Nancy

Well I've been reading all that's been posted about the problem.

Believe it or not my very first auction win went alot like you folks problem. Even before I bid I asked if the plant could be sent asap as I wanted to get it into the ground in Sept. so it could settle in before winter. I was told as a MO would speed up the process, so I bid, won and sent out payment by Priority Mail.

Check with the PO and it was delivered in 2 days. 2 weeks later I emailed to ask when plant would be shipped. No answer. 2 weeks later emailed again. Same response. 6 weeks after winning the plant recieved an email that plant was shipped. Plant never came. Emailed no plant showed after 1 week and get another that it was shipped again. No plant again. 2 months after win emailed that they may as well winter it over and I'd stop otw home from the South and get it. Still no answer. Heck even got their phone number and never got anything but a machine.

Emailed Mike my sent emails and asked him to help see what was going on. Did the seller receive my emails and told him about the long delay, emails stating plant was shipped and no plant showed. Oh and the excuse I got was they were too busy planting seeds before the weather got too hot!

Long story short this pissed off the seller (roflao)and I got a refund with a letter stating how I'd never be able to grow daylilies (heh I grew up farming LOL), I was a stupid new daylily person that didn't know anything about daylilies and he wouldn't ever ship any plants as it was too late in Nov. and I'd have a big hole in the Spring and want my plant replaced. (yea I wouldn't never of thought the plant could survive this. Then they ended the letter with don't bid on any more of my auctions. Oh yea...like I would do that!

Was I upset...you bet. Did I let it eat on me for long. Heck no...life is too short. You just have to figure that you sow what you reap. They will get their just reward. *-) I'd suggest that you move on from all the negative and work with Mike. You'll be alot happier and less stressed out. *-)

Well as it turns out I bid on more fans of the same plant for less money. See sometimes things happen for a reason!

We've been all around this sellers garden visiting others and we spent thousands of dollars with other gardens, but they won't ever get a dime from us even if they are priced 1.00 for new intros!

Now as a new seller on the LA we've had 3 auctions not paid for. See the shoe fits on both feet. Mad yes..but we just added them to the banned bidder list along with the problem seller as he does buy also on the LA.

Bottom line...be patient and let Mike do his job. It worked for me and I have complete faith he will get your money refunded. There are so many good sellers on the LA. The best way is to know is by the amount of bids on ones plants, then look for feedback that reads great plants, extra fans, fast shipping...things like this. Add that together and you will get a pretty good idea. Unless it's a newer seller if there are many auctions for a seller up and very few/no bids on them...the red flag should go up.

I like Carla's idea. Having only registered users from the LA to join would be great. We just don't have the time to help her though. 8-(

Our 2 cents.

This thread has been very informative. But unless people leave neutral or negative feedback, other buyers won't be aware of problem sellers. The LA works very well. Let's remember who is at fault here. People are just trying to get their money back. It would appear that, even after Mike has communicated with certain seller(s), they are still refusing to send a check out. That seems purposeful and continual, even vindicative.

There's nothing wrong for repeating a claim to justice. And remember it's THE BUYER'S money to begin with.

If only the world was full of Steves!
Ed

I read Marvin's post in a separate thread with interest. It was rather long and replete with self-exonerating explanations. It must have taken him awhile to write it. I find it noble and somewhat gratifying that he is truly making an effort to supply all his customers' needs. And yet... I still haven't received a 30-second e-mail from him regarding the replacement or refund of a mislabeled daylily. Odd.

Nancy

I don't think, even now, that Marvin understands what so many of us were trying to say about the problem of the lack of communication to many of us even after repeated requests and emails.
Marvin focussed on his overselling this past winter.
Leave for a while that some of what people have written to me predates that time, I think almost everyone was saying that his biggest mistake was the horrendous lack of communication.
He gave as a reason that he did not feel like sitting down at the computer after his daylily work. I am near his age, and I can identify with that feeling.
But communication is central, to the point, in business, of being a legal obligation when one cannot fulfill one's contracts in a timely manner; and when he realized what was going on, it was his responsibility having taken money and promised goods, to make some changes or find some answers to the dilemma.
There were after all alternatives. He could have hired help with the daylilies, or he could have asked for help in communicating the problems he had encountered to the buyers who had overdue shipments instead of, as happened a few times, saying they would be sent out soon and then not fulfilling that promise.
Perhaps help could have come from his wife or a member of the community to at least contact and reassure customers.
After all, he took time to note that he has been a minister for some time, surely he has established friendships with at least a few people that could have sent emails, checked orders, etc.
Those people who received late shipments, or who are still owed shipments or refunds, sent money in good faith. They were owed timely explanations, both commercially and personally.

A good faith admission of fault and vow to do better is a good way to face the past and then, face the future.

Actions speak louder than words, let's see what happens.

Steve...thanks for you wonderful words. I think it made comments afterwards more functional. No one should try to stifle the truth....only that we want to say that the truth be told with some compassion. That makes it more functional...because it has more impact. Marvin is not a bad person and he did not mean to cause all these problems....but he could have communicated better. Indeed, people who sent him money deserved to hear reasons for his delay. Hopefully he also learned something here.

Carla, please email me at mike@daylily.com, and I will tell you my thoughts.

A positive comment...

I emailed Marvin (with a cc to Mike Longo) about my outstanding order.

Marvin emailed me back. He's communicating again!

He expects all orders to be completed in the next 10 days. I wasn't terribly worried as long as he continued to ship but it was very nice to hear from him directly.

Communication is key! I feel so much better now, just knowing that my plants will be coming.

MJ in Canada

MJ

I am happy to hear about the communication and daylilies pending.
My box of lilies is either in Maine or in Canada, I've got my refund but I'm still curious about their fate.

Technically, because you now have your refund, they are no longer your lilies to worry about. Let Marvin worry about HIS lilies.

Time to move on Lucille.

MJ,

It was obviously a neutral question out of curiousity since I did mention the refund. There are some people like yourself that obviously do not want all this to wind down. Sad.