Herman ,
i truly wish the best and hope some of those comeback and do well for you if they can. Your contribution helps many here on fig forums and look forward to reading more post from you this season.
Best Health
Martin

Thanks Herman
We learn from your experience that if we in the colder climate want to plant fig in the ground, we have to give it complete rest the year before by removing the fig embryos so all energy goes to growth and then to nutrient storage. It makes good sense.
I was thinking of experimenting with a fig plant in ground in Zone 5 but now that will have to wait a few more years since my so called "hardy" ones are only one year old (i.e. one year with me).

Vasile,

I know that you have saved a lot of pain and anguish for the fig growers, particularly, in the colder climates and I am grateful to you for sharing your lessons learned.

One question, did you protect your fig trees planted out doors? If I understand it correctly you are trying to determine which trees can survive unprotected in 6b but particularly in your yard (not sure if you have micro-climate opportunities).

The reason I ask is I am trying to find the right fig trees for my location (6b(truthfully based on much of your work)). Wrapped them for 4 or 5 years and then leave them unprotected after that and see what happens. Can you please comment on that idealistic plan.

Very Respectfully
Vinnie

Vinnie:My Figs in the trial row were protected,the best I could,Blankets,over+,a large Pot in top,was the most used way this year.
Yet they had damage anyway.
Like I said the most damaged ones were the trees that produced most fruits a year before,(Second).
The figs that produced most figs ,included :CelesteUCD,Celeste,GM,Unknown #5,Bayernfeige,English Brown Turkey,Unknown#11,LSU Gold,Black Sicilian,Blue Celeste,Black Mission.
Most of these are considered cold hardy,so I concluded that the fact that they produced good crop,weakened them.
In My opinion,this is the explanation.
Figs that did not get damaged badly,includes,Reverted Panache,,278-128,and Jurupa,wich,they never produced anything,for the 4 years i have them.
The last sentence point again to my conclusion.
Of course we had a winter with long periods of cold,like a couple of days with temperatures in the 20 day and night,but still I can see a difference,between the 2 group of trees.
My Large Marseilles vs Black,Hardy Chicago,and Sal's Gene,
Were unprotected,yet I do not see any visible damage on them,and They have very small,but alive buds.
They might be exception,for 2 reasons:First they are older,second they might be made from another genes,that are more cold resistant.
I also Have 2 more cultivars,wich might prove to be one and the same,that came out with little damage to the tips.
I will declare them winers,only when,the buds start growing out and Know for sure they are indeed alive and cold resistant.
These are from the group,that also produce a good crop last year,and also 3 yrs old.
Best Regards
VS

Vasile,

I always learn from you. Thank you very much!

V/r
Vinnie

Good observation Herman.
I'm searching for a tree that is resistant to mice.

Herman, we have started to notice a lot of what you have noticed. That is, that even so called cold hardy figs are very cold tender in the first 3 to 5 years. We requested a Hardy Chicago fig five years ago, from a nursery that was suppose to have a good reputation, for shipping what one ordered. We received the fig and planted it in the V of our chimney, on the south side of the house. For some four years we waited for that winter protected fig to become cold hardy and ripen it's figs before November 1st. For four years it kept dieing back and leaving a lot of green figs at hard frost time. Then we ran across the fig forum and found out that there was a good chance our fig was mis-labeled, it was. Then last winter, we did not try to winter protect it. Last winter was one of those record cold periods that we have not had for a long time. It got down to minus 10 degrees here, and minus 5 degrees several times. But to our surprise that fig that was planted in the V of the chimney was able to keep half it's growth, about five feet. On the other hand our Violetta fig planted just last summer, but buried with tons of dirt lost half it's branches. Also, the cold hardy fig that we noticed 30 years ago has started to produce breba buds on what I had originaly thought to be winter kill. We have also noticed that plants that were well fed during spring and early summer seem to be more cold hardy. I'm not sure about keeping fig plants in the house for the first few years. I'm starting to think they need time to sink their roots down below the frost line. When we receive our next order of so called hardy figs this summer, I'm thinking about planting them like asparagus, in holes that are at least below the frost line and fill in with dirt as they grow and then cover them with a lot of dirt I'm also wondering if most figs, will become cold hardy if they are protected the first five years or so, and given a chance for their roots to sink deep in the earth and their trucks to get beyond that tender greed stage. I will attempt to post our findings this time next year. Bob

Do you have any experience actually removing the fruit the first 4 years, or is it an untested hypothesis that if the fruit were removed, then the trees would have done better?

Herman;
My own observation is that those figs with tender growth lost it. I left mine out too long; we had some temperatures in the twenties before I brought the babies in. I had die-back on several that I know were growing actively late in the fall. Some others had no die-back at all.

In addition to that, there is a definite difference between varieties here on the cold edge of Zone 7. A Joe Morle
Paradiso that came to me already three feet tall and branched is waking up in the ground. The Bayernfeige Violetta in a half barrel came branched and about two feet tall. I ate a few figs from it last year. It is putting on brebas all up and down its stems now.

A Kadota, Same size when planted in the ground, appears dead but will probably come out from the root. Kathleen's Black died back to the pot but at least one of them seems to be coming out from the root.

I will watch now to see if your theory holds up with my own figs. By the way; my Marseilles VS looks really good; no damage at all on any of them. I'm hoping for a fig or two from the largest.
Ox

hi herman,
my old italian grandfather use to say
it is better to bend over and bury the trees
until they become 4 or 5 years old.
i'm kicking myself now for not remembering
this advice last november!
well anyway its food for thought.

marcantonio

I think I have some similar experience this winter although it was not as cold as in Herman's yard. My Hardy Chicago appears to have lost a number of stem tips. Im not sure yet, but several or most appear dead. It is 3 or 4 years old. My King appears to have lost stem tips but the rest appears ok, my have soem brebas. It was in its 1st winter here, from a small purchased bareroot probably 1 year old. It is on the south side of my house and I protected it with blankets and an overturned garbage can.

My latarulla, 6 years old but still hasn't produced a ripe fig, came through completely intact. Even so, no figs this year might be cause for replacement. Likely brunswick, found variety, 7 years old, didnt bear much last year due to cold spring and summer in 08, no damage at all. Same for petite negri.

So far I've left the dead appearing stem tips in place just in case they actually are not dead. THe last couple of days of good weather should give me an answer soon.

Thanks Herman for shairng this observation. Here's hopes for a good fig year anyway.

Sorry to here of your loss Herman. I hope all the trees you think are dead surprise you. I think in many cases the cold suck the moisture right out of them and is often the true cause of death. It seldom gets cold enough to have to cover our trees here but it does happen and trees are lost to cold.

If we get a freeze warning this coming winter I think I am going to try something different. I plan on spraying with dormant oil to help protect them and water them well before any cold snap and see what kind of results I get. Where I live we almost never get a daytime temp below freezing and only a few nights below freezing per year so I think I can get away with it.

If you could get a short string of outdoor Christmas lights hung in a protected area inside your wrap that you could turn on during the coldest days I bet your trees would love you for it.

By All Means,Thisisme,you are right.
I think all my figs are alive,they are just partly dead,and will recover from it.
Of course there,will be a difference between them,as that some will produce ripe fruits and some not,depending on how good the genes of the cultivar is.
This is just another stage in my fig trial,from wich I will learn something new.
Best Regards

Herman & thisisme,

I agree that desiccation plays a big role in winter damage. I would warn anyone however that simply heavy watering won't solve the problem.

I've observed in my orchard that trees planted in lower lying areas with more ground moisture tend to have more winter damage than those planted higher up on dry ground. My theory is that higher moisture levels tend to lead to more succulent growth which is more susceptible to freeze damage.

Soil fertility also plays a similar role  higher fertility can result in succulent growth that is susceptible to damage. In my orchard the dryer areas also tend to have poorer soil.

Of course, there is a baseline of moisture and fertility that each fig needs, but once this is met, I believe, anything additional will increase the risk of winter damage.

We just had our last frost. All the potted trees came inside. Of the trees planted in the ground, Celeste had fully leafed out and got nipped. Hardy Chicago, which is ten feet away and the same age only had swollen buds, no leaves, and was fine. So maybe that's one secret to hardiness.

Very good point Scott.
I did notice that Hardy Chicago is leafing late,compared to others.
Also,All Gene reasoning is correct too.
Best Regards

The discussion on dessication is helpful. My comments should have included that I sprayed Wilt-Pruf on all of my fig trees, when the prediction was for colder weather. That may have helped them. Or not, I really don't know.

By the end of winter, the Wiltpruf turned grey and powdery. This resulted in a dead appearance to twigs that are really alive and will leaf out. Even my Hardy Chicago, that I thought was nearly dead, now looks better. All but one branch have terminal buds swelling and almost open now.

The comments about over-lush growth also make sense. My small King fig was planted in a garden bed and had a burst of late summer/fall growth, probably when the roots reached the rich garden soil. It had not lost its leaves when the hard frost came. I covered it thoroughly, with a garbage can overturned on it, when hard freeze was predicted. Currently, the terminal buds look dead, but just maybe there are embryonic brebas, and the stems look strong and normal.

Not scientific here, just observations.

While I would not disagree with Gene I do think I must not have been very clear because he seamed to misunderstand which caused him to misrepresent what I was trying to say.

I do think that spraying with some kind of dormant oil or Wiltpruf before covering them is a good idea.

Also I did not say that they should be over water throughout the year or at any time. I was saying that giving them a little water while they are dormant just before a hard frost is a good thing. They do it in every commercial orchard and for good reason too. Because it can save your trees.

Hi Everybody:I finally did download this picture to Photobucket,so I then be able to post here.
This picture is the most credible evidence,that indeed,all
Genes,arguments,and reasonings are correct.
The picture I am going to show you is of a fig that I planted in the front yard on,a slope,where the soil was graded and the top soil removed by the buldozer when the house was built.
This fron loan,has no top soil to speak of.
It is only clay.
I have a hard time growing even grass here.
I tried planting other shrubs here but they were not growing,being half dead half live,wich made me remove them,at the end.
4 Yrs ago I planted this fig on the spot of the previous dead Wegelia.
It did not grow too much,only 6 inches a season,but it has no cold damage and it was never protected.
This is on the north side of property.
It is trough that this is a cold hardy,Marseilles vs black but this year I have damage at every 4 yrs old inground fig except this one.
I think the secret is the poor soil,and slow growth in this instance.
H

Slow growth or not, that is a fine looking tree!

Hi thisisme --

I can see how my post looks like it was written to counter your post about dormant watering -- tho that wasn't my intention. Your post had simply reminded me of my observation of trees on dry, poor ground, and so I threw it out there, I should've been clearer.