Most of the seeds that I have right now need 30 days or no stratification at all other than the JM. Mostly spruce and pine seeds with some metasequoia and coast redwood seeds.

hey!!!!

in the quest for knowledge.. the only stupid question.. is the un-asked question ...

but i am going to try to reword your question for you ... i might fail ... lol ... breaking it into a series of questions ...

1 ... do conifers have a requisite dormancy period ... [e.g. hosta HAVE TO go dormant for around 60 days or they eventually die .. which is why they are hard to grow down south ... the further you go .. perhaps the anti-tropical.. lol .. in essense.. they act as an annual.. rather than a perennial.. w/o the dormancy period ]

2 ... how long is said period.. generally speaking.. to cover most conifers .. [leaving out tropicals .. which i doubt he is dabbling in ...]

3 ... in the alternative.. from the other direction ... do conifers.. again.. in general.. have a limited growing season ... in other words... is there a specific cutoff when dormancy forces itself upon said tree ...

4 ... or is dormancy triggered by declination of light.. tilting of the earth and weather and soil cooling [meaning root get cold] .. to trigger dormancy.. whenever it may come ... in other words.. can the season be too long ...

==>>> anyway ... when i dabbled in seeds.. again.. hosta ... it was a great winter hobby ... when i started too early .. or too late ... life ran into the way ... and they got forgotten.. because who wanted to be in the basement.. where i grew them.. in late spring ... and in late fall ... so i learned.. to do such around xmas break.. watching football games while cleaning seed.. etc ...

but then.. perhaps you are doing this all outside... i did not commit your process to memory ...

in other words.. whether or not it can be done.. does not really answer whether it will be convenient ...

good luck

ken

Thanks Ken for such a detailed answer! I am doing everything inside in my basement. I am not really worried about the convenience of the process. I guess number 3 is my biggest question.
3 ... in the alternative.. from the other direction ... do conifers.. again.. in general.. have a limited growing season ... in other words... is there a specific cutoff when dormancy forces itself upon said tree ...

At what point does the benefit of a head start stop? My December batch is bigger across the board than my February batch.

This is the most interesting topic! Thank you so much coachjohnsonip for asking this question!

I just cant wait to learn more about this

And maby it is you who will end up telling the rest of us answers as your tests go further. Please continue reporting your observations on this site.

Ken constructively started to process this valuable dilemma. waiting inpatiently for more!!

.

Yes Coach, this is a very interesting topic. It has always been my understanding that dormancy, as Ken alluded too, is brought on by a shortening of daylight hours and dropping of temperatures. Different flora would have different cycles according to there specific climate. This I'm guessing would be genetically marked in that species code.
Of course they can be 'tricked' into prolonging there growing season or exiting dormancy early. It is done all the time.
Now it is also my understanding that this can only be done for a certain period of time before a plant would shut down regardless of artificially produced factors. The Prolonged growing season would definitely stress the plant.
So your quest is to prolong the growing season without injuring your conifers.

Conifers also require a certain amount of days dormancy before they are able to come out of dormancy. You would want this to happen in the following spring. Required dormancy for conifer species is probably documented somewhere.
I'm sure you can stretch the season a month or two without any problems. Someone with more knowledge could probably pin it down to a more specific timeframe for you. Good luck

waking from dormancy

This post was edited by qwade on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 18:18

My December batches definitely stretched the growing season a few months and the trees are all doing well now as far as I can tell. I am going to try a few locally collected norway spruce seeds in September and October to experiment :)

I have had Arizona Cypress germinate as late as mid-December outside in a pot and do fine down here in Z8. Haven't had any germinate outside after May. Perhaps these trees survive better in the dry climate they are from if they germinate in the fall or perhaps just any time its cool and they have some moisture.

Had some Bald Cypresss sprout in October, but they didn't harden up sufficiently to survive the winter.

Would think it will vary according to species and where you are at.

I had some Juniperus virginiana that I kept in my basement under the lights all winter after sprouting in April. They have not been dormant since they sprouted last April and they are growing like crazy still. One of them is about 14 inches with an 8-10 inch spread. I brought them inside last year as I really had no clue what I was doing last Fall. They are 2 to 3 times bigger than the ones that are growing on my in law's property where I pulled them from.

Coach : I don't know the answer to this question but it is very interesting. I also grow a few conifers from seed (mostly spruce, pine and fir ) and have read general statements about trees needing rest periods each year in order to survive, but very few details.

My understanding is that trees grow based primarily on photoperiods and soil temperatures. When the soil warms up and the daylight periods get longer trees begin to come out of dormancy in spring and the opposite in fall. By starting seeds indoors in winter, greenhouses and gardeners extend the growing season all the time so nothing new there.

My best guess is that eventually seedlings will have to go dormant at some point regardless of growing conditions. Exactly how much you can artificially extend the growing season I don't know.

TYG

Here's a study where they experiment with multiple dormancies per year and get faster growth...

Growth Response of Umbrella Pine as Influenced

by Temperature, Photoperiod and Chilling
http://www.hriresearch.org/docs/publications/JEH/JEH_1986/JEH_1986_4_4/JEH%204-4-145-148.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: study

Very cool article. I am going to mess around and start a few batches of seed now and give them a 60 day chill period in the garage over the winter where the temps usually range from 30-40 - sometimes a little colder and sometimes a little warmer... I will start the 2nd batch with the same seed types in December with the same light and growing temps and document my results here. This will be fun :)

Coach:

Your experiment sounds very interesting. Please keep us informed on your progress and research.

I recall my high school biology teacher telling us that "every living thing needs a rest period eventually." My take on this is that even with extended photoperiods and artificial temperatures sooner or later the seedlings would need a rest period.

Good luck with your experiment.

TYG

I have germinated and sprouted about 40 of each of the following species of trees to start off the experiment.
pinus sylvestris
Pinus flexilus reflexa
Pinus contorta
Pinus wallichiana
Pinus nigra
Pinus thunbergiana
sequoiadendron giganteum
picea abies
picea pungens
picea omorika
Pseudotsuga taxifolia viridis
Abies balsamea
and just because I felt like adding a deciduous conifer I started up a batch of Metasequoia glyptostroboides which are all ready all most 2 inches tall and growing at a ridiculous speed. I will run all of these seedlings through a 60 day chill period in the garage except the metasequoia. I will start the 2nd batch in late January.