Best I've ever used is chopped sphagnum moss (not peat). Second is the coarse part of Turface after it's screened through insect screening - doesn't get overly water retentive like vermiculite after it collapses and there's no shrinkage. I also much prefer perlite to vermiculite when it comes to rooting media.

Al

Al
I just bought a bag of S"chultz Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss". The label makes it look like Sphagnum and Peat not different things. Is it different than what you use (chopped sphagnum moss).
Also, I read occasionally that peat moss has some mold retarding property. Is there some truth in it?
If there is even minimum truth about mold retarding, then Perlite+Peat (or Sphagnum)Moss may be a good combination for rooting.

Peat does indeed have anti fungal properties but it really holds moisture and can be hard to regulate the water retention. I had problems with cuttings rotting from excess moisture last season.

You are both confusing sphagnum peat with {{gwi:747998}}. The sphagnum moss is the product whole - it looks somewhat similar to Spanish moss. It absorbs quickly and there is much less concern for water retention issues than when using vermiculite. It stimulates rooting and has excellent anti-fungal properties. It's also the preferred medium for air layering, though I've used Turface for that too, with very good success.

Al

Well, if that works for you- good. I have better results from Vermiculite, medium coarse (4020M). It allows for more oxygen and I have very little disease problems with it.
Have not had a problem with Vermiculite staying too wet, and I live in a cool region with lower heat than a lot of the US.
For larger projects I doubt it would be as affordable as vermiculite.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vermiculite

Well, you very good fig-people; I was myself always confused
as to which is which: perlite vs vermiculite. I tried a (mix) of both (with MG potting soil).
My BEST performer was perlite (the WHITE STUFF - as I often
have referred to it). Verm.. is soggy; Perl.. is not! Period.

Well, then do what you want to. I am just speaking of my own experience here, and medium vermiculite works good for me. If you don't agree, use the sphagnum moss.

Excuse me, please - I misstated myself in the post immediately above. I meant to say "Additionally, vermiculite, not perlite, can have an extremely high pH. If from Africa or Australia it can be as high as 9.3-9.7, which often makes it entirely unsuited as a stand alone rooting medium. Sorry if this created confusion.

Al

I think this link will offer more explanation on the use of vermiculite as a rooting media

Here is a link that might be useful: horticultural soil amendments

I guess it is time to experiment with "Chopped Sphagnum Moss" mixed with perlite as using Sphagnum Moss alone will be hard on retired economy.
Does Al statement also means that peat moss is sterilized and so it loses the anti-fungal properties?
I had used Sphagnum Moss for growing Orchids but then found fig growing to be more fun (and ripening more figs will add more fun).

As it has been many, many times hammered here before;
one should "stick" to whatever worked best for him/her.
Of course, we are all looking for some "greener grass",
beyond...

I'll try to send in some photobucket shots of my 'experiment' later this spring. Have about 2 dozen cuttings in some 6 inch pots of med. vermiculite right now.

I bought a large bag of coarse vermiculite last spring and used it for all my rooted cuttings coming out of plastic bags. I lost a lot of them - it was the worst season for growing cuttings that I'd ever had.
I did not have a "feel" for the stuff, and won't be using it again.
Jon uses it with success as well, and I went back to see where I went wrong. He wets it down before potting and puts in into the pot gently. I top watered after potting and it compacted badly. It got light fairly fast (at a point where I would have watered my usual perlite/peat mix) and I watered when I probably shouldn't have.

I used vermiculite last year too with bad results. This year I'm back to using Perlite and a little MG mix and it is working well for me. As Gorgi says, use what works well for you! I've noticed also that some varities root much quicker than others.

I use 50% perlite and 50% UPM (Ultimate Potting Mix), with some Diatomaceous earth for fungus gnats.

This all reminds me of a story about a good friend I had awhile back - called hisself Joe Pye. Now Joe was kind of a stubborn sort, but at least sometimes he'd listen ...... if you caught him on a good day. Well lemme git back to my story ..... ol' Joe had a peculiar habit. See every mornin he'd commence to banging his head against the wall for 15 minutes or so before he went to work. When I'd ask him, "Why o' why do you do that, ol' Joe?" His answer would always be, "It's what works best for me - wakes me up inna mornin."

Now I'd been around the block a time or two, and I was sure there was a more productive way for ol' Joe to wake hisself up inna mornin, so I timed it to when I figgered Joe would be in one of his listenin moods, and sorta half whispered a suggestion to him. Had to do it more'n a coupla times - even got some other folks agreein with me to sorta help Joe along.

Well by God, through the very power of multiple suggestion, ol' Joe starts in to huggin & kissin on his wife inna mornin before work instead of pursuin his other long time habit. Stubborn as he was, Joe recognized right away he was better off - he just lacked the benifit of experience to see it at first. His wife was quite pleased with the change as well. Ol' Joe never ever did go back to bangin his head on the wall neither.

There's a moral to this here yarn: If yer real happy with how things is goin, please maintain the status quo; but at least allow it may be possible there just might be a better way .... if you'll at least consider it.

Just as even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn, even a fool like me will occasionally stumble on a good suggestion.

Hope it brought a smile. ;o)

Al

BTW, I also NEVER NEVER use vermiculite any more. It has ruined lot of cuttings for me. Way to wet!

I've used Vermiculite, Perlite (and combinations of the two), soil and water retentive crystals. I've found that perlite is the best for me (though this year I will be trying mixing perlite with oildry and perlite with turface)

I've got some spagnum moss (like spanish moss) and I might give that a try too.

~Chills

This will clarify confusion about Sphagnum Moss and Sphagnum Peat Moss which are mentioned as two different products.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/articles/misc/sphagnum.html
For the busy ones, here is the difference: quote
" Sphagnum moss and sphagnum peat moss are not the same product. Sphagnum moss is used in the floral industry to line wire baskets and make wreaths. It is the LIVING moss that grows on top of a sphagnum bog. Sphagnum peat moss is used as a soil conditioner by gardeners. It is the dead material that accumulates in the lower levels of a sphagnum bog. Harvesters of the horticultural peat moss remove the top few inches of the live sphagnum moss before harvesting the peat from the lower levels of the bog."

I have been using the following in my "Rooting Experiment" on Figs 4 Fun with what I think are very good results ...

For rooting media (after first roots show using the "baggie method") I use 50% perlite and 50% vermiculite. I let roots develop into a nice root ball before tranplanting.

For potting media I use a variation on "Al's Mix" which is equal parts of turface (Shultz Aquatic Soil), pine bark mulch, sphagnum peat moss and perlite.

So far I have no complaints. Seems to drain fairly well and holds enough moisture for the small figs.

Regards,
Steve

In your application, Steve, you're adding a product (perlite) that retains little water, in equal proportion to a product that has a tendency to hold perhaps more water than the optimum - especially as the vermiculite particles break down and particulate size decreases. This helps make the overall water retention of the 50/50 blend much more favorable than vermiculite as a stand-alone.

Additionally, from a structural perspective, adding the equal portion of perlite to the vermiculite is like adding the wire to Gumby.

Al

This thread is confusing me no end. Last spring was my first season rooting figs. Unable to get my hands on the ingredients for Al's growing mix I used vermiculite for rooting and ordinary potting mix (not potting soil) to grow the figs out. I thought I had great success, about 90% overall and four out of four for Herman's Marseilles VS. I actually threw away a half dozen good cuttings that had root knots all over them because I thought those little white bumps were mold.

If I had that kind of luck with vermiculite I should get great results with chopped spagnum moss. (If I can find some) It will soon be time to try.

Ox

What works best for me always, I never had any pass away is always just root with newspaper and stick in the garden soil. Every fig loved that and always worked best for me.When I stick a rooted cutting into the soil, I bury it almost to the top of the cutting. Ciao
P.S. Does these special mixes speed up the rooting process or something else which may be different in the way I do it?

Maggie:
At what time of the year are you planting these cuttings in garden soil? (As I understand you, the cuttings are rooted indoors wrapped in damp newspaper pretty much as most of us do.)

Also, when you say that you plant the cuttings with only a little bit showing above ground, do you leave a node exposed, or do you bury even the last node and let the sprout push its way to the surface?

Finally, what kind of soil do you have? Sandy? Dark loam? Gumbo?

I'd be interested in knowing how others of you manage cuttings placed in the garden. I have sandy loam here and should be able to start figs in the garden too.

Our soil does not warm up until well after Easter. The farmers plant corn here on the 14th of April when it is really yet too cold for tomatos or peppers, etc. "Green up", the time when trees leaf out and the grass begins to turn green in the pastures is around the middle of April.

Remembering what Al said about rooted cuttings growing in soil colder than would start roots, I think that for a fig to have a chance in the garden I'd want to have it rooted and ready around April l5th.
Ox

1. Ox, you can prob bury them when the ground stops freezing.

2. Ox, yes, you can bury vertically or horizontally. Both have worked for all have I have done is watered with the hose 2x a week and I had a near 95% success rate. You can bury the whole thing or leave a node, both have worked for me.

3. Ours has lots of clay, do not use this methods if nematodes are a problem

4. Start in April, bury the whole cutting.

Ciao ox, I should have worded my last post more indepth. I root them like everyone else in newpaper and bag, once they root, I put them in a LARGE pot that they will be in permanently for a few years or whatever then they grow and root in the pot. I use just Bought garden soil. Our soil is very clay In Pennsylvania and not good, surprisingly for being in the mountains there. I put them in vertically all the way to a couple nodes, almost cover the whole cutting about 75%. Thats all. I won't put any of my prize figs in the ground we have at home because we are planning to sell our home in near future, I don't want to leave any of the figs at the house. I want to take them with me, they stay in their pots until we get our more permanent old age home. We will be moving out of that City. My older relatives who are here now, do not even root in bags, they just dig a hole and lay them Horizon in the ground then water then they get their new trees, but they are all on our land and we don't intend to sell the orchards, they must stay int he family. They cuttings always root well, sometimes not, but the relatives almost have a 95% rate with this old method. It is the same as how Loslunas said to do it in the ground. I showed My Uncle's how to root them in the bags, they thought that was a very interesting way to root fig trees. I wonder if they will catch on. Okay, time to eat something, Ciao.

Ox
Have very sandy loam here and good (98+%) success w/ inground rooting. I plant vertically w/ the top of the cutting level w/ the soil surface. Spacing is about 4" between cuttings, 6-8" between rows. The planting beds are raised about 4" above the paths. I do not pre root the cuttings and usually bury batches of bundled cuttings in late Nov about 6" deep. In early Spring (mid March) when the frost is out of the ground they get dug up and planted for rooting. The best cutting are between a 1/4 and 5/8" diameter w/ 3 to 5 nodes.

This method is best for varieties that you want to increase in large quantities because the expense and care is minimal. The plants will be at least a year behind those started under lights w/ bottom heat in Feb or early March. Expect to see single stems 4-12" long of about pencil diameter. Most will spout from the top node but shoots can push up lower down. Roots will be sparser and longer and there is some difficulty removing them from the rooting bed in the fall . They will require Winter protection. I dig them, tie in bundles by kind and bury horizontally about 6" deep outside after leaf drop, then pot them up the second Spring.

Another good study on use of vermiculite

Here is a link that might be useful: rooting douglas fir media trials

I prefer vermicelli with tomato sauce. Do not forget the goat cheese. Figs for desert.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vermicelli recipe

I know that this is an older thread, but I was wondering if you, Al, still feel the same way about chopped sphagnum moss as the best source for the best media for rooting cuttings?

If so, do you buy it chopped and where would be my first place to look for it?

Thanks much!

Bump, hopefully for Al, or anyone.

Figs aren't particularly fussy - one of the easier trees to root. Just about anything you can keep damp but not wet or soggy will support good root growth if the cuttings are from a healthy plant. Damp sphagnum moss works very well. Sphagnum moss isn't cheap, and it comes in grades. AAA or AAAA would be best for cuttings.

Sorry about not getting to your message - I've been very busy and my message box is overflowing.

Al

I just really appreciate your advice and all you do for us amateurs here. I can't believe the amount of time you spend helping us all here, working at your job and then taking care of your own plants, not even mentioning your bonsai!

You are absolutely super, Al, and you need to know that there're at least thousands out here who feel the same way that I do!

So, thank you more than a thousand times over, my friend!

Timothy

Well, thank you for your kind expressions! I very much appreciate your being so thoughtful. My job can exert a lot of pressure at times, and I find that getting involved in nurturing my trees/plants on a daily basis is enormously helpful in relieving the tension. Fortunately, I've also found that trying to help others get more from the growing experience serves as a natural extension of my own growing experience ....... nurturing people who nurture plants. I enjoy thinking I might have played a part in helping you and/or others get more in the way of reward for your effort expended. Kind posts, like yours, serve as a form of validation, so thanks again for your kind words.

Al