Suggestions for a Southern Garden

15 years ago

I'm working on some large landscaping projects and have a need for conifers of all sizes and persuasions. Dwarf, tall, skinny, fat - all colors and habits. I have different exposures as well, from total shade (VERY interested in shade-tolerant varieties)to full sun. I'm looking for superior cultivars and forms for a show-pice rock garden with no limit on space.

So...I thought I would ask for some suggestions for cultivars that work well here in my Zone 7 hot, humid garden. I currently have the following already growing and established:

Cedrus deodara 'Aurea'

Cedrus deodara 'Gold Horizon'

Cedrus atlantica 'Glauca'

Cedrus atlantica 'Glauca Pendula'

Ginko biloba 'Autumn Gold'

Juniper 'Blue Rug'

Juniper 'Gold Mop'

Picea abies 'Pendula'

Picea orientalis 'Skylands'

Pice pungens 'RH Montgomery'

Picea pungens 'Glauca Globosa'

Pinus contorta

Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid'

Pinus heldreichii var. leucodermis

Pinus mugo var. 'pumilio'

Tsuga canadensis 'Nana Gracillis'

Plus I have some native Eastern Red Cedar, White Pine, Virginia Pine, and Red Pine.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (14)

botann
15 years ago
Any pictures? Where in Zone 7?
kaitain4
Original Author
15 years ago
I'm in Tennessee. I have several areas, and each is different. The main one is a field bordering the woods that is seen from the house, but I have tons of room for this stuff!(see link to web album below)

Thanks! :)

K4
Places for Conifers
Related Discussions
Suggestion on grape varieties for Southern California
Q
Comments (9)
I have two Kyoho grape vines, and they produce well in hot SoCal, with a large size, for home grown. They arenÂt as sweet or as flavorful as my neighborsÂ delicious Concord grapes, but perhaps IÂve over watered them, diluted the flavor, or just like the Concord flavor better, growing up on Welches. I grew ThompsonÂs Seedless, Flame, and Black Monukka around twenty years ago. It wasnÂt hot enough here to sweeten ThompsonÂs, but Flame and Black Monukka were just okay, not as good as supermarket grapes, and only half the size, without heavy pruning and spraying with gibberelic acid. My Concord Seedless were okay this year, but not as sweet or as flavorful as the seeded. The skins werenÂt bad enough to spit out, but had sort of an off taste. IÂve been shopping for more grape vines myself. Besides the excellent suggestions above that Fruitnut recommends, seedless California grapes that have good reviews on the Internet are: Diamond Muscat, Delight, Thomcord, and Black Emerald. Thomcord is supposed to have the Concord flavor I like but seedless, with okay skins. Lon Rombough, an Oregon grower, who wrote The Grape Grower, recommends for seedless grapes: Jupiter, Neptune, Vanessa, Venus; and for seeded grapes: New York Muscat, Gold Muscat, Muscat Hamburg, Swenson Red, Price, and Foch (juice). David Karp, the fruit detective, calls seeded Alexander Muscat "the standard of high flavor" in grapes. IÂm putting in an intensive planting of all of them, and will be yanking whatever doesnÂt taste wonderful. I have high hopes for Jupiter, but both my plants are slow growers, only one vine each, and may get run over by the growth spurts of the other vines. Grapes are really easy to root from cuttings, grow fast, but will be a year or two before they are old enough to produce grapes.
...See More
Starting a garden in southern Utah
Q
Comments (4)
You do not need to bring in any soil, but you may need to btring in some organic matter. Since the soil is the single most important part of the garden to an organic gardener, so start there. Contact your local office of the Utah State Universtiy USDA Cooperative Extension Service about having a good, reliable soil test for base nutrient load and soil pH done and then dig in with these simple soil tests to see what you presently do have, 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. Once you know what you do have then you can begin to make plans to amend that soil to make it into a soil that is good and healthy and will grow strong and healthy plants. Here is a link that might be useful: Utah State University CES
...See More
Road Trip to Southern GA - Nurseries/Garden Centers
Q
Comments (4)
If you could get more specific as to towns....I could make more recommendations..If you get the chance..Tallahassee Nursery, Esposito's and Native Nursery in Tallahassee are nearby and where I mainly go..I also would suggest Nesmith's in Thomasville Ga.They are open 7 days a week and have several greenhouses.. In Tifton is Bob'sBusy Corner. Ty Ty has Smiths Nursery..and avoid a certain other nursery there. Casey
...See More
visiting gardeners seeks garden resources for / in southern NH
Q
Comments (10)
What a lovely gift!! As Ginny said a bit more info about where in the state would help. One thing to be aware of is that spring is prime time for ticks in NH. Some of them are relatively large, but the small deer ticks are the ones that carry Lyme disease. When working in brushy areas I tend to wear long pants tucked into my socks, a long sleeved shirt and a hat, and when I am done working, change all my clothing and check myself thoroughly for ticks. Spraying clothing with bug repellent containing DEET helps also. Any ticks I find go into a vial of alcohol and clothing goes outside or into the washing machine after a quick check to find any obvious ticks. Lyme disease isn't something you want to pick up! Here's a link to a thread from last year suggesting several great NH nurseries (I am pretty sure all the listed nurseries are in the southern part of the state, but range from E to W,) and it also has a link to a 2006 or 2005 list of New England nurseries. Some of the northern MA nurseries may be close to your sister's place. Where you are in the southern part of the state will make a difference as it's probably about 2 hours from Keene to Portsmouth. Also, where you are will affect the seriousness of deer problems you have. In more suburban areas with less hunting and habitat, feeding from deer can be a problem. I'm in a rural area just a few minutes north of Concord and although there are lots of deer, the only plants that I can't grow due to deer are yews and Tricyrtis/Japanese toad lily. There are so many other food sources available that they don't bother to visit my gardens except to snatch a real treat. The seacoast is zone 6, but most of the southern part of the state is zone 5 with some of the hillier areas around Keene and my river valley location are probably on the border of zone 4, but all are in the southern half of NH. I mostly plant for zone 4, but sometimes zone 5 for things I really want with the knowledge that if we have a particularly cold winter and poor snow cover, I may lose them. I don't know what type of budget you have, but often soil improvements can be found locally relatively inexpensively. Many cities and towns have composting programs that make it available to residents. Local dairy farms will often deliver a huge dump load of manure, and horse manure can often be found for free if you are able to pick it up, but it will have more weed seeds. Mulch can also be found from various commercial suppliers by the dump load, which will probably be an important part of the low-maintenance aspect of the garden. Three acres is a large space, so you may want to consider some smaller heavy equipment. You may also be able to find someone to run a tractor for you for brushhogging, moving rocks, moving dirt, etc or if you are comfortable with machinery, bobcats and tractors can often be rented. We have been happy using Carl Mattews equipment in Boscawen. (I laughed when DH bought a small tractor many years ago, but as I age, the ability to move things with that tractor instead of my body makes it one of my favorite gardening tools now.) Some general thoughts on gardening in NH: Depending on where your sister's house is, you will probably have lots of granite (this is the "Granite State" after all) though on the coast and in the Merrimack Valley soil is sandier (or on some areas of the coast there is a layer of marine clay a few feet down) and there may be less rock in general. For building walls, rough field stone is often used while edging, patios, steps, etc are frequently made of dressed granite. It's something you have to keep in mind in planning a garden, that you will probably have a goodly amount of rock mixed in with soil and you may have shallow bedrock or boulders too large to move that you need to work around. We buy dressed granite from Swenson Granite Works in Concord, which is our local granite quarry for items like steps, but that may not be the best choice for you if you are looking to build something that needs dressed granite if you aren't close to Concord. With good planning fall color can last for 6 weeks or more, with the red maples starting the show in September and the blueberries, Fothergilla, Viburnums, oaks, and beeches ending the color at least a month and a half later. It is my favorite time of the year and well worth planning for in the garden. We are lucky to have many natives that are stunningly beautiful in autumn. Because so much of our year my garden is deeply snow-covered, I do try to grow plants that extend the season of interest and plant gardens that can be viewed from the house in winter. Herbaceous plants and short shrubs that stay green in cold weather usually aren't of huge value in my yard during winter since we often have more than 4 feet of snow on the ground. I try to plant a few things in warmer areas on the south side of the foundation that will bloom early like snow crocus, reticulated iris, and snow drops to get some early flowers. I plant taller evergreens (larger shrubs and trees) along with woody plants having interesting bark (beech/Fagus, birch/Betula, Stewartia, Acer griseum/paperbark maple, red and yellow twigged dogwoods/Cornus ) or interesting branch stucture (Pagoda dogwood/Cornus alternifolia) to provide winter interest. I also leave up my clematis obelisks year round since they tend to look nice against the snow. Many folks have bird feeders and bird-friendly shrubs to bring in some extra winter (as well as other seasonal) activity as well. I don't since we have blackbears emerging from dens in just a few weeks and they enjoy birdfeeders a bit too much. Tell us a bit more about your goals for your sister's garden beyond low maintenance - do you want easy or wheel-chair friendly paths or good visibility from a patio or porch? Does she have someone to help with basic mantenence such as an annual cleanup of easy care perennials like type 3 (hard prune) clematis or Baptisia? Will she want chair-accessible raised beds near the house for a few veggies and herbs? Is the garden all on one level? Are you looking to put in almost all trees and shrubs? Are flowers or scent or colorful foliage important? Hope that wasn't more info than you wanted or needed! Here is a link that might be useful: NH nurseries thread
...See More
midtn
15 years ago
Pinus strobus and Picea abies cultivars do well and there are tonsÂ
Picea orientalis seems to do better than Picea omorika for me
Picea meyeri looks similar to Picea pungens but supposed handles humidity better.
And Cedrus atlantica does better than Cedrus deodara for me. Maybe because they know I love deodara so they keel over. :)
Most junipers are a no brainer, I like Juniperus communis 'Gold Cone' and Juniperus squamata' Holger'
Lots of Tsuga Canadensis cultivars and as long as you are not near the Hemlock Woolly Adelgid they are great plants.
DonÂt forget Chamaecyparis obtusa, and thyoides cultivars
Thuja plicata and Thuja in general has some nice cultivars. I like Thuja plicata ÂZebrinaÂ and Thuja orientalis 'Morgan'
Cephalotaxus should do better than Taxus but there are exceptions
Cryptomeria japonica cultivars. ÂGlobosa NanaÂ usually looks bad for me then dies but ÂBlack DragonÂ, Elegans AureaÂ and ÂSekkan-SugiÂ are very nice.
Abies is tough for us but Abies nordmanniana is doing great for me. Also Abies firma should do well. Cultivars should do ok if grafted to firma but they are hard to find.
Metasequoia glyptostroboides grows fast and is beautiful.
I like Taxodium ascendens better than T. distichum but Taxodium distichum ÂPeve MinaretÂ is very cool.
dredawg5000
15 years ago
K4 you have a great piece of property. I live in the Atlanta area and our plant list is almost identical....LOL

Hey check out Cooper-Payne Tree farms website. They are located in North Carolina and grow conifers that are suited for the South.

Hope this helps. Keep us updated with new pics of your project(s)!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Cooper-Payne Tree Farms
kaitain4
Original Author
15 years ago
midtn
WOW! Thanks for the incredible info! Just what I was hoping for. Any cultural suggestions, since you live in the area? Things to do or not to do? How much sun do you give these guys?, etc. What the heck is the Wooly Adelgid and how do I avoid it? Also, have you tried a Sequoiadendron giganteum yet? I was wondering if it would survive here. How about Sciadopitys verticillata? dredawg
Thanks for the compliments and the tips!

I think I'm a gonner, as I made the mistake of purchasing 'Gardening With Conifers' by Adrian Bloom. I want ALL of them, and I want them NOW!! :-D

Regards,

K4
midtn
15 years ago
I think many conifers can take a little more shade than people think. Many of the gardening books are from the UK (for example Bloom's awesome book that I also have). A lot of conifer suppliers are from Michigan or Oregon. Their full sun is not like our full sun. As you know our summers are long, hot, and humid and we tend to have droughts. I am still learning, but if you read that any conifer will take part shade I would give it to them. Our clay soil is not the greatest and I still donÂt know quite how to deal with that.

From wikipedia - The two eastern North American species, T. canadensis and T. caroliniana are under serious threat by the sap-sucking insect Adelges tsugae (Hemlock Woolly Adelgid). This adelgid, related to the aphids, was introduced accidentally from eastern Asia, where it is only a minor pest. Extensive mortality has occurred, particularly east of the Appalachian Mountains. If you are west of Cookeville you are probably fine. The closest native hemlocks that I know of are about 60 miles east on the Cumberland plateau. Unfortunately the last time I was at Burgess Falls I saw white powdery stuff on some of the large old hemlocks. They are probably goners.

Have not tried Sequoiadendron giganteum. I would think survival would be doubtful since the one I saw at the national arboretum looked pretty bad. They have a similar climate and soil conditions. Try one anyway, that is part of the funÂ

I would like to try Sciadopitys verticillata. I have seen a few for sale around town so they would likely do OK.
cynandjon
15 years ago
We lost many old hemlocks to the adelgid. Im in Pennsylvania.
kaitain4
Original Author
15 years ago
cynandjon

Total bummer! Is there anything they can do about them? Are there resistant species?

Between Chestnut blight, Dutch Elm disease, Gypsy Moths, Adelgids, Japanese Beetles, and Heaven only know what else; American forests are being reduced to scrub trees!!!

:(

K4
vancleaveterry
15 years ago
"Nanjing Beauty" a Taxodium cross, a Chinese hybrid cross of Bald Cypress and Mexican Montezuma Cypress. The Botany Shop offers them. They also have Princeton Elms if you want to try them.

P. virginiana 'Wates Golden'... (I haven't tried yet but the pictures are cool)

Chamaecyparis Thyoids "Top Point", it's an Atlantic White Cedar that turns purple in winter... "Bonzaibob" on ebay carries them... I just ordered one.

He also has:
"Gold Rush" Metasequia Glyptostroboides (Dawn Redwood)
Deodar Cedar 'Snow Sprite'.....("Silver Mist" is similiar but larger... I bought the "Snow Sprite"... so far doing good)
Juniperus Squamata, "Chinese Silver" ... mine needs staking, seems to be a weeper.

A variegated Ginkgo might be added.
Perhaps a China Fir?
Japanese Cedar "Black Dragon" is also doing good here in zone 9
Perhaps some cupressus arizonica?, "Carolina Sapphire" or "Blue Ice" ... They are a bit different from each other.

And I just bought from Bonzaibob a Juniperus Communus "Kalebab" on ebay. His description: "a new form of this species. It has a very unique color for a juniper. The summer color is lovely green dusted with silver and the new growth in spring is an odd pink orange color. During the winter it picks up orange and yellow tints. The form is very appealing as well as it becomes a dense cone about 8' tall and 6' wide in ten years. Although upright the branches still have a relaxed pendulous effect that is very nice."

That one was kinda expensive.

Good luck, Terry, MS coast
midtn
15 years ago
K4,

There are people working to save the hemlocks. It is a tough issue. There is a predatory beatle Pseudoscymnus tsugae Sasaji that has been introduced. I also hope that some will survive due to natural resistance or isolation. I am an optimist! Hopefully that can re-colonize their turf! If not they can be re-introduced.

As far as JB is concernedÂ Last year in Tennessee we had a very late and harsh freeze. This freeze damaged and in some cases killed outright Japanese Maples, some of them very large. It was very discouraging. The upside was that this year I have not seen many (any) Japanese Beetles. I am hoping the freeze that damaged the maples took a toll on the beetles as well.
zjones
15 years ago
I'll weigh in here since I've killed my fair share of conifers in the Nashville area...
Midtn gave a great list there for us. I would echo everything he said but would underscore that any hope of long term success with Abies has to be grafted on firma - otherwise the August cooker will get them if the July one doesn't. I also agree that some common sense about sun and water are critical here. I have a number of full sun cultivars in part shade and they are full, dense plants because of the strength of our light. I have learned a lot by keeping plants in pots for the first year and trialing in different light conditions. Water and drainage are critical here too with the clay problem that most of us have - amending with ground pine bark and gypsum has worked very well for me in the heaviest clay but you don't have to do that for everything. Taxodium, thuja, some picea, most pinus, and many cham. obtusa and pisifera cultivars can take that clay - these are the backbone of my garden and I lean heavily on the chamaecyparis. Don't waste your time with the cham. lawsonianas though, unless you have a fully raised bed and want to baby them. I grow 4 cultivars of lawsons under near-perfect conditions and 1/2 day sun- they do pretty well..I've killed twice that many when I got a degree or two away from perfect. Pinus is always great here and the variety is broad for our landscapes. The strobus cultivars are great - just trying flexilis brooms here this year. I have a couple of the golden mugos and P. V. Wate's Golden is a good bet for a larger tree with spectacular winter color- I've had one for 2 years and I'm starting to see them more every year. I'm trying a couple of scotch pines and the parvifloras do well for me in amended soil - I think they are a little trickier about drainange than many of the others, uncinata being the most demanding from what I hear (I have five doing very well in raised beds).
I think it's very important to watch the plants you buy, inspect the grafts and the roots, water well and deep, and count on some losses. I'm watching a 6 foot cham. nootkatensis Van Den Akker die before my eyes this past week about 8 inches from the root ball and I have no idea why - healthy new growth below the death - go figure!
Try stuff that it makes sense might do well with a little TLC - any areas that border woodlands that would offer some shade from the afternoon sun are perfect for conifers of all kinds in our area.
Let us know what works well for you - you have a great looking piece of property there that will be a real showplace with a few years and a bunch of $$$$ ;->

There are some other folks lurking around from TN and GA - give it up!

Where are you in TN?

Zack
kaitain4
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for the great info Zack! Greatly appreciated. I can see that a lot of this gets down to experimentation and just trying things out. I'll keep everyone posted as I dive into this, and I'm sure I'll be back with LOTS of questions!

I'm in Dickson, TN, which is about 45 miles west of Nashville. We're on the rim here, which is quite different soil and species-wise from Nashville and the basin (better, I think). Hopefully that will be an advantage.

Regards,

K4
zjones
15 years ago
K4-

Dickson will be a little different from those of us in the basin - better soil conditions overall and better drainage. I'm in Bellevue off of I-40 at McCrory Lane. Shoot me an email if you want to take a look at my collection - mostly dwarfs and miniatures on a small lot but a good variety...
Good luck with your project!
Zack
gardenofeden777
13 years ago
Hey K4 How has your garden turned out? I have taken notes from this thread. Thanks to all contributors. I'm in central Louisiana, and just started buying conifers! Love the rock walls!

Rena'

Suggestions for a Southern Garden

Comments (14)

botann

kaitain4
Original Author

Related Discussions

midtn

dredawg5000

kaitain4
Original Author

midtn

cynandjon

kaitain4
Original Author

vancleaveterry

midtn

zjones

kaitain4
Original Author

zjones

gardenofeden777

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Suggestions for a Southern Garden

Comments (14)

kaitain4Original Author

Related Discussions

kaitain4Original Author

kaitain4Original Author

kaitain4Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

kaitain4
Original Author

kaitain4
Original Author

kaitain4
Original Author

kaitain4
Original Author