How do you sort your seedlings once bloomed?

13 years ago

I just seperated/transplanted a bunch of year old seedlings, some of which are fairly large fans, and was just curious how anyone else sorts their seedlings as keepers, or "give away" or "throw away"

I"m sure it's different for everyone. I thought the weather would freeze out a bunch of mine over the winter and thus sort them for me as "hardy, non-hardy", but I only lost a total of 4 seedlings-which is great.

I was thinking obviously that some seedlings may look very similar to each other, in which case only one needs to be kept or do you check a second year or so for branching/bloom? Does anyone throw away seedlings that don't look promising (slow to increase/weak looking) BEFORE they bloom?

Just curious to see what seasoned seedling growers do.

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Comments (26)

marricgardens
13 years ago
I'll be keeping a watch on this thread. Last year I planted 40 seedlings. Some multiplied well, 2-3 fans, but several still only had 1 fan by fall. I was planning on culling the single fan ones if they don't do better this year. Hopefully I will get some bloom this year. Marg
Ed
13 years ago
I do limit my seedlings to two bloom seasons. If they have not bloomed in this period, I don't consider them any longer.

There are over 60 thousand registered daylilies, so I don't think any seedlings that I cull are worthy of giving away. I compost my all culls.

If the seedling has a distinct bloom, I keep it, record its parentage and give it a number. I evaluate it over 3 to 5 years to decide if it's worth registering. If the seedling has a sibling that also has good traits, sometimes one has better flower while sib has better branching, I keep both, and one gets a letter suffix on the seedling number. Crossing these sibs can bring out recessive traits or combine the two traits you like. Eventually, you want good bridge seedlings that produce good plants with a good combination of traits. Then multiply them, and give away or sell. One thing I don't want to do is give someone a bad or puny daylily - then they will go around bad-mouthing them.
Ed
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crackingtheconcrete
Original Author
13 years ago
Is this your first year for seedlings, Marg? This is my very first set of seedlings, so I feel a bit sick at culling any b/c I keep thinking "What if I kill a great one, but then again, if its struggling, how much do you want it in the garden, even if it's pretty?

Ed- Thanks for your detailed info.It gave me something to thing about. 2 questions that may be ridiculous, so forgive me if they are:
1) When you give them 2 blooming seasons to flower, do you include the first season upon planting (for instance, if I planted in Feb the following June/July would be considered the first?)

and

B) I know some ppl have jokingly talked about getting a really ugly bloom. Do you find over the years that you can peg an average percentage of seeds planted that you think look very similar to either parent, and ones that are hideous? (10%of seeds= hideous, 75% will closely resemble either parent?)

I have no idea why I have highschool punnet squares running through my mind, but anyway..
kimkats
13 years ago
I haven't been able to copost any of mine yet, I'm weak I know. I'm lucky I have a next door neighbor with an empty yard and a love of flowers! So all my culls have gone to her. That way If I was wrong and I see something of value to them after a year or two I will still have access to the pollen or to set a pod or 2. She just doesn't have the time to garden so it works for both of us. I don't have to compost them and she gets color for free. I've also put a few down by the road on a bank to help hold the soil. If road salt eventually kills them I won't cry to much.

Kim
marricgardens
13 years ago
CTC: yes, this is my first time hybridizing. Good to know that I'm not the only one who hates the idea of culling!

Ed: Thanks for the info. One question tho. If you have one that you consider 'ugly' would you keep it if it had some redeeming foliage/flowering traits or good branching habits? Would it be worth it?

Kim: If I get any that I consider ugly I will replant them in a field behind my garden. There are no neighbours here that garden and none of my family does either.
Ed
13 years ago
If I had year old seedlings and transplanted in Feb, then I would watch them and if around 50% bloomed the first year, I would consider it their first bloom season. I usually start my seeds in Sep-Oct. and then transplant to beds over the winter. I get at least 50% bloom the following spring/summer. The following season is usually their last chance. I made an exception for one section this year. The plants never did as well as they should have. I think the soil I used had too much raw organic material and the lack of nitrogen stunted the plants. They will get an extra year. I don't want to cull something that hasn't had a chance to bloom, but if a seedling takes three years to bloom (here in zone 9), how good a plant is it ever going to be? I think these plants usually have inferior root systems.

Nope, I can't give you a % that will follow either parent. Foliage habit and bloom time usually follow a parent, bloom form and color is usually a blend of the two. I do think if you cross parents with similar features, you tend to get kids with the same features, but enhanced. Crossing very different colors or forms tend to give you the dogs. Decide where you want to go and keep selecting for those traits. Ten years ago I kept about 100 of the seedlings for further evaluation. I'm now down to about 10-20 each year.

They also tend to be in the front of the rows! ;0)
Ed
Ed
13 years ago
Sorry Marg, didn't see your question earlier. Yes! I have and do select seedlings for overall plant quality. The flower maybe is average looking, but otherwise, it looks like a great plant, especially if it's across I am repeating or working with. Those qualities, to me, are as important as a pretty face, and I want to keep them in my line.
Ed
dani_plus_2
13 years ago
This is only me second year and I'll be culling some this year. But, if I have VERY slow growing seedlings when I'm growing them from seeds and they seem to stay that way, I pinch them off. I had one that stayed an inch tall for a whole month so he had to go.

Dani
crackingtheconcrete
Original Author
13 years ago
Dani, I guess I'm never sure how much is poor genetics in slow growing and how much is either poor growing location (harsh winter in a pot above ground)even though other containers grew well or how much was due to overcrowding (5 seedlings in a container as opposed to just 2) or just my zone not being FL or a warm, happy place. LOL

If some of them just keep limping along this summer, I may find the courage to just end it *already feels horrible for even thinking it*
marricgardens
13 years ago
Thanks for the advice Ed. I was thinking the same thing but it's always good to hear from someone who has been hybridizing for some time. Marg
pamghatten
13 years ago
It took me years to be able to cull my seedlings. Then I realized I had to stop biulding new garden beds because it was too much work to maintain everything. That made it easier to compost seedlings. I also throw unwanted seedlings in a boggy area around my pond, and some survive there on their own just fine.

I also don't give them away, there are already too many similar looking daylilies out there in the 60,000+ that are registered ... I don't need to add daylilies that I don't theink are good to the ones out there growing.

And I also will keep a seedling as a "bridge" plant if it has good traits, but not good enough to register.

Here in zone 5, I tend to let them grow and bloom for at least 3 years. I never evaluate them the first year, it could look totally different as it settles in. I let some go even longer if I have the room.

I do give them a good growing medium ... I think they need to be grown in a real garden so I can really see what they can do.

I've registered 10 daylilies and thrown away hundreds. But, I only produce less than 500 seeds a year, that's as much as I can deal with in a year. Most people I know have thousands of seeds.

A friend told me many years ago, if you want to make interesting different crosses, then you need to have interesting and different parents. I follow that advise and every year add new(er) daylililes to use.

And it's all worth while in the middle of the summer when they start blooming!!!
lisa_3
13 years ago
Cracking the Concrete
You were asking about how much seedling resembled parents-sometimes you get mysteries!
I crossed a croccodile smile seedling
{{gwi:662637}}

To Destined to See
{{gwi:664410}}
And got this. The color is kind of odd in first year bloom so I am waiting to see what it does this year.{{gwi:679879}}

I also crossed Trahlyta to a small raspberry slightly ruffled flower called Flapper and got this:
{{gwi:683778}}
I always picture my imaginary flower and what I am trying to get from the cross-sometimes I'm close and sometimes WAY off!
I don't cross a huge amount of seeds because I just do for fun.
lisa_3
13 years ago
Another example of things to look at -
This seedling blooms SO pretty in the morning
{{gwi:683779}}

But fades horribly to an unrecognizable flower after a day in the hot sun
{{gwi:683780}}

It took me several blooms worth of trips back and forth (as my seedlings are at my dad's house) to finally realize it WAS the same flower. I kept thinking it was just the same cross but different plants.
I moved it to a 'part shade' area to see what it will do this summer.
dani_plus_2
13 years ago
LOVE those examples of parents and children!!! Squirrels and frost heave dug up most of my cross stakes so it will be a guessing game this year.I guess I don't care that much, but I was trying to keep track a little (of the ones I bought on LA). Maybe I will try longer bamboo stakes instead.

The one inch seedling was under my grow lights still. Like 3 stayed that way for 2 months so I figured they'd be a horribly slow grower, so why try to plant a 1 inch plant outside?

Dani
dementieva
13 years ago
Yeah, excellent thread. I love the pictures.

Skinny bamboo stakes are good markers for small plants or buried seeds. I used them for multiple things.

Nate
crackingtheconcrete
Original Author
13 years ago
Yay! Thanks for pics, lisa. Flower was definitely a bit of a surprise color for Crocodile/Trahylta cross.

I have Cat Dancer/Running Late, Swiss Diplomat/Shuffle the Deck, Spanish Fiesta/Lava Flow and a few others all which look like they MIGHT be big enough to put out one bloom by the end of the summer(Never quite sure what equates a "blooming size fan" ) so hoping to see by the end of the season if those are keepers or throw away.
Some of you have mentioned that bloom looks different 2nd year, so if I get "dog" as Ed called it LOL..should I assume it may suddenly "blossom" into a swan the next year, or should I just throw it?
Ed
13 years ago
If you guys like parent pictures with seedling pictures, then go to Lee's (Pickle's) Daylily Potpourri Blog, link below. Lee shows lots of cross results. There is a link on his blog to Springwood Gardens (Karol Emmerich), which is little harder to follow, but also shows lots of combined pictures. Bill's (Waldrop's) Daylily Corner is also listed. He shows both pictures of seedlings usually, but not as many. He shows work with converting plants that is very interesting.
Ed

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee's Daylily Potpourri
marricgardens
13 years ago
These pictures are great! Thanks for posting. Ed, thanks for the link. Marg
kjean61
13 years ago
I put Bloomed seedlings that I cull out by the road with a FREE sign. Some are culled because they are just too similar looking to other seedlings. I have yet to have any that did not bloom by the 2nddd year.....fingers crossed
dementieva
13 years ago
Ed,

Thanks for the link. That Lee Pickles blog is great for seeing how good traits can be passed down.

I'm curious if you know offhand of any site or book that shows the broad spectrum of seedlings for a certain cross...something with at least 10 different seedling faces, perhaps. For us beginner hybridizers, that would be a great resource.

Thanks,
Nate
Ed
13 years ago
Hey Nate,

I don't think anything like that exists, not to my knowledge anyways. Would be nice, granted.

What I've done in the past is go to Tinker's database and studied offspring of certain plants to get a feel for the traits they pass on with some regularity. Of course, these have to be parents with lots of offspring to get trends.

You do have an advantage being close to Leon Payne, or even me, in that you can come visit and see what long crosses are producing from parent plants blooming in the garden. Which you are welcome to do, even speaking for Leon.

btw, Nate came to our last Daylily Club Meeting, got to meet Mark Carpenter, and joined up!
Enabler Ed
dementieva
13 years ago
*Grin*

Yes, I'll be back again too (Apr. 17th?) and the wife (would that be DW in forum shorthand?) might also come.

I've been looking at parentage with the AHS database combined with Google image search the last couple weeks, and I've even traced some of my cultivars back to the 1950's or 1940's when the information goes back that far. It's really interesting to see where the current plants came from.

I've also been comparing some of my plants with their half-sisters and offspring in the same way. It's all very interesting, and I still haven't decided exactly what crosses to try out yet. Of course, with my small collection of young plants, my crosses may depend more on which flowers happen to be blooming on the same day. :)

Nate
Ed
13 years ago
Sounds great Nate,

We'd love to meet the DW on the 17th. I'll try to bring you some tubes for freezing pollen. That way, you're not entirely dependent on what's blooming.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread ctc.
Ed
pamghatten
13 years ago
My friend Linda has many seedling and parentage photos online ... Click on the link below ...

Her main website is:
http://www.daredevildaylily.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: Linda Michaels seedlings
dementieva
13 years ago
Very nice photo comparisons there. I like seeing the non-spider x spider crosses in particular.

Nate
crackingtheconcrete
Original Author
13 years ago
OOH,thanks for link, Pamghattan! I'm going to look through those more later, as well..a LOT to see!

Ed, no worries LOL I've hijacked posts on other forums for much shallower reasons! Friends are good! :)

How do you sort your seedlings once bloomed?

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