And to follow up, the hopefully identifying leaf that I couldn't figure out how to include in the beginning post. Forgot to mention lots of thorns also. They seem to be straight thorns an inch long at times.

One more of the trunk bottom

You need to cut the 2 side branches off. Anything with the 3 leaflet patern is rootstock. The rootstock will do fine in your winters but the lemon will not. If you have the room to grow a rootstock tree outside, then go ahead and get a new Meyer lemon and watch for rootstock suckers. You should do well and you can do a lot of late night porch tequila drinking though out the year. This one is a rooted cutting and is growing it's traditional bush shape. A rooted cutting will never be damaged by root stock suckers and is a good choice for a containerized Meyer

Thanks for the response. What finally send my suspicions about my tree over the edge was when a lady gave me her Meyer tree that looked about like your nice cutting there.
As I was loading it in my truck, I asked her, "Where are the thorns"? She replied, "Oh they're there down in there".. but the thorns she had were NOTHING to what are on my tree. Let alone the obvious leaf differences.

A few months before that stopping by her house I noticed she had a few lemons on hers, limbs barely able to hold and almost no leaves. I'm like, how does she have all this with barely a plant while I have a firm trunk and not even as many lemons? It all makes sense now. Huh.

So are you saying that I can plant this outside where we get really freezing cold winters and it will survive as it is and it will not produce any fruit or just not lemons (because the Meyer trunk is dead/will die)?
Or was it meant that the tree itself will survive but won't fruit AT ALL because of the shortness of the season then I'm not sure if I'd go outside with it.

I'd rather concentrate on the new lemon I've been given and let this one play out either inside the container or out in the pasture. But I can't let it die and it would be nice to see what it had as a free tree.

It would be a very happy ending to this story to find out it could be planted at the corner of the pasture and in a decent year produce a bunch of the "sour oranges"...

No, you canNOT plant any citrus tree outside where you receive freezing temps. There are a handful of citrus relatives that can manage freezing temps, but not of them produce edible fruits. Most citrus trees can manage a few nights where temps might dip below freezing, but not for prolonged periods. You do want to cut off any branches with trifoliate leaves immediately, as they are draining the cultivar's strength. Prune flush to the trunk, and watch for any future rootstock sprouts, and simply rub them off with your thumb (when they are very tiny and green).

Patty S.

Thanks for the info. I was able to read your post before bed last night. Even though the fruit is no good to the taste allegedly, I think I'm gonna put this out as is, in the spring... (it's already coming out of it's brief dormancy after a couple weeks by the stove)... and we had that killer winter last year probably gonna be a repeat by the looks of things. I wouldn't think now would be a good time heading into the cold with the plant growing.

They've got acid probably, I might use the fruits for something simple like squeezing an undetectable amount into the chicken waterer to keep their insides healthy. Who knows, I can find a use for almost anything. Even the thorns you could use to sew with if things went bad. lol.

I read in a thread search here that the Missouri Botanical Garden has trifoliate orange growing outside? I'm about 70 miles south so maybe I can pull it off too? If they were common around here or if I didn't have another Meyer plant to fall back on now I'd probably prune off the trifoliate branches.

What would happen then If I did take off the trifoliate branches? Would the Meyer trunk take off and just start gurgling Lemons because of the deep, mature root base? It would have to be some extraordinary news to keep this thing from going in the dirt in the spring.

Now I've got to learn about how to give it the best chance and pick the right spot.

For a little more insight Patty, here's a pic of the entire tree. Realized I didn't have a shot of the whole thing. It's had a fresh haircut. The Meyer trunk is nearly dead and overtaken. No leaves, just a stick. The trifoliate branches looke great ! haa

I honestly had no idea this was a grafted tree. Didn't even know to be looking for shoots below any graft line.

After looking at these pics, all of my citrus trees got a trimming and they'll get new pots and soil tomorrow! I don't know why I didn't think about root suckers.

Looks like the Rootstock took over and from the look of your tree your meyer is grafted onto Flying Dragon also known as poncirus. I have no idea if your meyer can be saved at this point

Start with a new tree. poncirus trifoliata and the Meyer lemon produce a poison and kill each other after some years. The scion is gone. Plant the dragon outside and enjoy it's twisted beauty.

Get another on a rootstock like Cuban shadock or macrophilia. Grafters graft to the easiest rootstock for the big box stores. It does not matter if the tree declines and dies after the warranty is past. The Meyer lemon is best on it's own roots when it is in soil made for that tree.

Often I fail to understand the lack of care/concern of the tree growers. Clothing comes with a tag that details care instructions.... even the merest T-shirt.
All my trees for garden use come with care instructions; and with the rootstock (trunk) painted white. Included in the instructions in clear language is that ANY sprouts from the rootstock (the portion painted white) should be removed immediately. Trees I sell to associate growers for commercial planting come with a human who visits periodically and gives them planting and care advice; and that human includes me personally, when I am asked.

It's obvious that your Meyer Lemon is dead and gone. Forget it!
Your Poncirus trifoliata (trifoliate orange) is doing great. Enjoy it!
The fruits aren't for eating, but it makes a striking tree with beautiful spring flowers and attractive fruit.
Once established it will probably survive outside, but if you can provide some protection in severe weather or a sheltered position, its chances will improve.
Don't plant it where anyone might fall against it - thorns are wicked!

Steve, there is no "poison" involved with scion/rootstock incompatibilities. Incompatibilities between scion cultivars and rootstock are usually due to failure (immediate or delayed) of the graft union to form due to insufficiently close genetic relationship between the stock and scion. or disease introduced as a result of grafting (viruses or virus-like organisms, Tristeza being one).

Failure can also occur at at physiological level:and incompatibility at the graft union due to cellular physiological intolerance caused by metabolic, developmental and/or anatomical differences between the rootstock and scion. Just not genetically physiologically similar enough to create a connection between the scion and rootstock.

Or, simply anatomical differences, where the scion and rootstock fail to form functional vascular connections between the rootstock and scion. Again, related to the second reason, and you can clearly see under the microscope, that adequate vascular connections just were not made. There is no "poison" involved.

Patty S.

Patti

Poison is the wrong word for that particular reaction but i have read that something put out by the Meyer lemon kills the PT/FD root stock unless an inter stock is used. My impression was that the graft did well for the first 3-5 years and then decline followed by death.

Steve

We are playing with semantics here... poison is as good a word as incompatible; it denotes the same thing; i.e. one type does not "like" the other type, so they do not prosper when put together.
There is a lot of information on citrus rootstock compatibility, if you google that term. For me it is a chance to use one of my favorite analogies.... it is sorta like buttoning your shirt... if you get the first button wrong, it doesn't matter how careful you are after that.

It's not "semantics", it is simply a wrong use of terminology, John. There is no chemical reaction going on, or excretion of some chemical or poison, causing graft failure. So for me, using the word "poison" isn't really descriptive of what is happening. Sorry, I have a science background, and I think I provided a pretty clear explanation, John. Steve, the Meyer lemon (or other incompatible cultivars) does not excrete something that kills the rootstock. It is just an inability to make that cellular connection well enough to support the transport of nutrients up through the rootstock and to the scion cultivar. More an "apples and oranges" analogy, since John is fond of analogies. Or, square hole in a round peg.

There is basic incompatibilities between several cultivars and trifoliate rootstocks, Meyer being just one. If I have a chance to snap a photo of my container Chironja orangelo, I'll post it to show a scion/rootstock graft issue. I didn't want folks new to citrus to think that a citrus scion had the ability to poison the rootstock, definitely not what's happening at the graft.

Patty S.

I agree with Patty, poison is not a good analogy here.
It is more a divorce :-)

However, according to this table from a Australian lemon manual, poncirus trifoliata is compatible with Meyer.

A deficient graft can also be the cause.

{{gwi:640095}}

This post was edited by axier on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 6:08

Since Meyer lemon trees do so well as own root container trees there is no reason to get a grafted tree. Meanwhile i am staying away from PT/FD.

rooted Meyer lemon cutting picture 11-26-14

Steve, you know I think your trees are nice but I have a question about this one..

Why are the leaves so shorted, wrinkled, stunted and curled...Not flat and a bit bigger, smooth green and relaxed?
Could it be too much fertilizer or too much light to blame?
I do believe trees do need a good period of darkness to thrive?

MIke